Playing "the game"

[RPG]

I'm not talking about the "you lost the game" variety, but rather about the modern courting ritual that involves a lot of the more negative (IMO) aspects of flirting: playing hard to get, fighting for dominance over the person you're courting, etc.

My more social friends get A LOT of action by playing the game. I hear stories about strings of vague text messages and leading people on for weeks until their courting game climaxes into something sexual. And admittedly, basically all of my successful romantic endeavors involved flirtation strategies such as playing hard to get and so on. It felt like every flirtatious encounter had a winner and loser, and it started to bother me.

I realized I kinda hate playing the game. I feel so manipulative, and it bothers me that it tends to involve so much of stringing people along to get what you want. It bothers me that people jump to playing with each other's emotions rather than being honest.

You could argue that there's this falsity and assertion of dominance in most social interactions, in job interviews, introductions, and so on. Is it just something that comes naturally to humankind?

I'm just wondering what you think of these games that people play with each other. Are they necessary in getting what you want? Are they supposed to be fun? Are they a natural part of life and something that comes hand-in-hand with interaction? All of the above? Looking for some thoughts.

[Arch]

Fuck. I lost the game.

[Rehab]

There are plenty of people who don't like playing "games" with/on other people to get what they want, sure, and it's eminently possible to have a relationship free of them, though it requires extra communication on both ends. I mean it's kind of sociopathic to base a relationship around deceiving somebody in order to get a desired reaction out of them, if taken to the extreme.

When interacting with someone, you can think of what you say in terms of what impressions you're giving, for the sake of being honest/considerate towards them, rather than manipulative. I find it helps things if you try to level with them, maybe clarify something said with "I know I could be coming off like ___, but that's not what I mean," "I hope I don't sound like I'm doing (manipulative/offensive thing)," etc. You might get a better response than expected, though YMMV with the person, of course. It's at least an option.

I even read tell of one odd study that naturally friendly/straightforward people are more likely to notice deception, possibly because they're being more considerate of the other's position. Not sure how the chips really fall, but I'd allow for it, actually.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Rehab

[RPG]

There are plenty of people who don't like playing "games" with/on other people to get what they want, sure, and it's eminently possible to have a relationship free of them, though it requires extra communication on both ends. I mean it's kind of sociopathic to base a relationship around deceiving somebody in order to get a desired reaction out of them, if taken to the extreme.

When interacting with someone, you can think of what you say in terms of what impressions you're giving, for the sake of being honest/considerate towards them, rather than manipulative. I find it helps things if you try to level with them, maybe clarify something said with "I know I could be coming off like ___, but that's not what I mean," "I hope I don't sound like I'm doing (manipulative/offensive thing)," etc. You might get a better response than expected, though YMMV with the person, of course. It's at least an option.

I even read tell of one odd study that naturally friendly/straightforward people are more likely to notice deception, possibly because they're being more considerate of the other's position. Not sure how the chips really fall, but I'd allow for it, actually.

I agree with all this, but in regards to saying things like "I know I could be coming off like __, but that's not what I mean" and other disclaimers like that, it seems that good intention comes head-to-head with social expectations. I say plenty of disclaimers like that, things like "but that's just me" or "I don't mean to __", but recently I was met with a response something along the lines of "nobody likes someone who's so careful and hesitant". Granted only one person has told me that, but I still question that even though being nice and respectful always seems like the right thing to do, that it might hinder more than help. It seems like the confident people who know how people think and can play these games get farther in life, and I don't know how I feel about that...

[Peppy]

Fuck. I lost the game.

Yep. I feel your pain... >_<

[eclipse]

I'm not talking about the "you lost the game" variety, but rather about the modern courting ritual that involves a lot of the more negative (IMO) aspects of flirting: playing hard to get, fighting for dominance over the person you're courting, etc.

My more social friends get A LOT of action by playing the game. I hear stories about strings of vague text messages and leading people on for weeks until their courting game climaxes into something sexual. And admittedly, basically all of my successful romantic endeavors involved flirtation strategies such as playing hard to get and so on. It felt like every flirtatious encounter had a winner and loser, and it started to bother me.

I realized I kinda hate playing the game. I feel so manipulative, and it bothers me that it tends to involve so much of stringing people along to get what you want. It bothers me that people jump to playing with each other's emotions rather than being honest.

You could argue that there's this falsity and assertion of dominance in most social interactions, in job interviews, introductions, and so on. Is it just something that comes naturally to humankind?

I'm just wondering what you think of these games that people play with each other. Are they necessary in getting what you want? Are they supposed to be fun? Are they a natural part of life and something that comes hand-in-hand with interaction? All of the above? Looking for some thoughts.

How long do such relationships last? What do YOU want out of a relationship? If you're going for two months of sex, then this will work. If you want something meaningful, you'll have to figure out what kind of person you want, and whether or not that type of person will be happy with these sorts of interactions. Some people like these games. Given what you've posted, this isn't for you. Likewise, I do not believe in such things, and will probably ignore the person in question out of principle. If it bothers you that much, perhaps it may be time to look for another group to hang with.

[Junkhead]

There are plenty of people who don't like playing "games" with/on other people to get what they want, sure, and it's eminently possible to have a relationship free of them, though it requires extra communication on both ends. I mean it's kind of sociopathic to base a relationship around deceiving somebody in order to get a desired reaction out of them, if taken to the extreme.

When interacting with someone, you can think of what you say in terms of what impressions you're giving, for the sake of being honest/considerate towards them, rather than manipulative. I find it helps things if you try to level with them, maybe clarify something said with "I know I could be coming off like ___, but that's not what I mean," "I hope I don't sound like I'm doing (manipulative/offensive thing)," etc. You might get a better response than expected, though YMMV with the person, of course. It's at least an option.

I even read tell of one odd study that naturally friendly/straightforward people are more likely to notice deception, possibly because they're being more considerate of the other's position. Not sure how the chips really fall, but I'd allow for it, actually.

I agree on this.

I've never played this "game thing". Personally I think it's an incredibly stupid code that's been implanted on society that should apparently make things "less easier" (people say they don't like it when it's too easy because "it's boring).

And I wouldn't call "sociopathic"...it's actually pretty darn normal, and I hate it.

[Original Alear]

If you're going for two months of sex, then this will work. If you want something meaningful, you'll have to figure out what kind of person you want, and whether or not that type of person will be happy with these sorts of interactions.

See, that's what I don't understand about all this. Even couples who seem to be more "easygoing" seem to like sex. Is a relationship that's based primarily around sex really not meaningful? I recognize that sounds sarcastic, but I deny that it is so. 2 people committed to pleasuring each other in a way that seems to have a reputation as better than sliced bread; isn't that a wonderful thing unless there's an unexpected pregnancy or STDs involved? I don't (I really don't) mean to open the tidewaters of a very extended argument that is really only useful as an explanation of utterly obvious considerations for yours truly: I probably haven't thought this through, and a condensed reply may be most effective. Maybe it's something about the chemistry of the aftermath?

[Rehab]

I assume she means a relationship that is based on interest in nothing other than sex, and one that is intentionally short-term, as opposed to "sex as expression of mutual adoration/intimacy/reciprocation"

[eclipse]

See, that's what I don't understand about all this. Even couples who seem to be more "easygoing" seem to like sex. Is a relationship that's based primarily around sex really not meaningful? I recognize that sounds sarcastic, but I deny that it is so. 2 people committed to pleasuring each other in a way that seems to have a reputation as better than sliced bread; isn't that a wonderful thing unless there's an unexpected pregnancy or STDs involved? I don't (I really don't) mean to open the tidewaters of a very extended argument that is really only useful as an explanation of utterly obvious considerations for yours truly: I probably haven't thought this through, and a condensed reply may be most effective. Maybe it's something about the chemistry of the aftermath?

There's a world of difference between "screwing like bunnies" and "coordinating two people in a relationship that requires cooperation and compromise, with assets and other people on the line". If a relationship's only focus is sex, it ain't gonna last - there's a LOT more to two people cooperating than the bedroom.

[Vestige]

There's a world of difference between "screwing like bunnies" and "coordinating two people in a relationship that requires cooperation and compromise, with assets and other people on the line". If a relationship's only focus is sex, it ain't gonna last - there's a LOT more to two people cooperating than the bedroom.

Yeah, sometimes you need to cooperate outside the bedroom too. Wink Wink

[Life]

There's a world of difference between "screwing like bunnies" and "coordinating two people in a relationship that requires cooperation and compromise, with assets and other people on the line". If a relationship's only focus is sex, it ain't gonna last - there's a LOT more to two people cooperating than the bedroom.

I disagree. Healthy relationships can be and are sometimes built on the premise of the sex. Mostly because sex itself is a part of human nature.

Sex can easily be the focus of a relationship that lasts. I'm not saying that it's everything but it can certainly be the focus.

[eclipse]

I disagree. Healthy relationships can be and are sometimes built on the premise of the sex. Mostly because sex itself is a part of human nature.

Sex can easily be the focus of a relationship that lasts. I'm not saying that it's everything but it can certainly be the focus.

That's assuming that the two people in question aren't worried about other things, like financial stability, child-rearing, The Other Family, etc. While it can start as a focus, it can't be the sole one, and it is NOT going to work if it's the end goal - sooner or later, bigger issues will crop up.

[BluBlaDe]

You can't be yourself if you want to get a girlfriend or get laid period. If you don't play games then you won't get what you want.

Honest people are boring and they don't have any friends. Being honest will only make you predictable or a complete nutcase ( man this person is really ugly right in the face of said person). Being predictable(not using any game) is good if you want gold diggers that are only after your money/statut.

OP you don't have to feel bad about being manipulative but you don't have to go out of your way either to be manipulative.

Relationship are nothing more than games. Get too serious in them and you'll get hurt REAL BAD.

The only people that will EVER love you inconditionally in life are your family(and even then it's not always the case).

Learn to not take relationships too seriously.

something that comes naturally to humankind?

Look at children : They take what they wants without giving a single fuck about everything else. Then they grow up and they have to follow rules in order to take what they wants.

[eclipse]

You can't be yourself if you want to get a girlfriend or get laid period. If you don't play games then you won't get what you want.

Given what else you've posted, I think you should probably stop giving personal advice regarding women. I have no idea what world you live in, but its views on women seem woefully inaccurate.

[Shin]

With regards to the OP, you're 18, you don't need to worry about it. Don't see finding a partner as some sort of objective or missing. Comparing yourself to the people around you doesn't help either, you're your own person, and will do things your own way. Remember, girls are people too, not things you win over :P.

[Knife]

It works pretty well for sex though

[Steampunk]

Most people I know who date are rather straightforward about their intentions (myself included). If a friend wants to go out with someone, they usually just ask. That way, there's no confusion as to what's going on. I think playing hard to get or subtle mind games is more a movie/tv thing to make the relationship more interesting in terms of plot/story line. It's been a while since I was in high school, I don't remember that going on there. If someone wanted to date a girl, they asked her out. If a girl wanted to date a guy, she'd ask him out (though that was far less common). If they wanted to play "hide the sausage," they did that too.

I wouldn't play hard to get, because that gives guys/girls the wrong idea. You don't want someone thinking they have to "earn" you or prove they're worth your attention, because that is very exploitative and most people with any sense avoid such a boy/girlfriend. Just be straightforward. You want to have lunch or dinner with someone? Ask them. It might also be a good idea to let them know that this is a date: not just a casual dinner (thought that depends on the situation). If you make it clear what they want from them, it'll save you and your romantic interest a good deal of awkwardness. It also shows them that you are an honest person who doesn't play games, which counts for a lot with most people.

Don't take offense, but I think you have the wrong mindset. In dating, there aren't "winners and losers." Either someone's interested in you or they aren't. If you ask someone on a date and they say yes, they're interested in you. You haven't "won" anything: they genuinely want to get to know you better. If they say no, you haven't "lost" anything either. Before you asked, you didn't have anyone to have dinner with. After they said no, you're not any worse off than before. You're not any less of a human being, you aren't any dumber, etc. If you're going after men/women who want you to prove yourself, those are not the men/women you need to be pursuing. Yon don't want a spouse/significant other who's always needing you to prove you're worth their time. You want someone who enjoys being around you and doing things with you.

As for dominance in the relationship, that's up to each person. Some men want a strong, independent woman who can take charge. Other men like to wear the pants in the household and want a woman who's okay with that. Same thing with women: some like to take charge and others are happy to let their spouse lead the way. It all depends on what a person wants.

You can't be yourself if you want to get a girlfriend or get laid period. If you don't play games then you won't get what you want.

Honest people are boring and they don't have any friends. Being honest will only make you predictable or a complete nutcase ( man this person is really ugly right in the face of said person). Being predictable(not using any game) is good if you want gold diggers that are only after your money/statut.

The rest of your life is a long time to be someone other than yourself. You'd have to be a pretty good actor to pull that off. Honesty is very important in relationships because you have to trust the other person. It's really hard to trust someone who isn't forthcoming with you. When you get married (or enter a civil union, or whatever you care to call it), you are sharing assets (bank accounts, ownership of property, custody of any children, etc). If you're dishonest in how you handle your family finances, that's going to cause huge problems with any rational human being that is contributing their salary to them.

If a girl cannot trust you to be honest with her about little things that don't matter, they won't feel they can trust you with important things such as shared assets and children. If you just want sex from someone but lie to them about your intentions and make them think you're actually interested in them as a person and not as a sexual conquest, that's going to cause huge problems as well. In either case, honesty matters a great deal. If you're dating boys/girls who lie just to get laid, you're hanging out with the wrong people if you want to find an actual boy/girlfriend.

Sorry for yet another long-winded post. I really need to start trimming these down.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Sheik

[Vorena]

It sounds like there are two sides to this. A the instigator and a follower. The instigator is leading the follower on. Who's fault is it ultimately? I would say its the followers fault. So, the opening post describes a person (this instigator) being very vague and hiding real intentions. Its sort of the followers fault for not trying to make perfectly clear what's going on with the other side.

Its annoying to see one person trying to exploit another, but there is really nothing you can do for the foolish.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Nightmare Always LOL's

[Green Poet]

Just going to pitch in my condensed thoughts on the matter.

It's the societal norm to play "the game." Rushing into a relationship is certainly a bad idea in the long term, and so the frustrating courting process is somewhat justified. I don't have much of a liking for it either.

There's a world of difference between "screwing like bunnies" and "coordinating two people in a relationship that requires cooperation and compromise, with assets and other people on the line". If a relationship's only focus is sex, it ain't gonna last - there's a LOT more to two people cooperating than the bedroom.

This pretty much encapsulates my view. Trying to tie the knot preemptively may suggest that the relationship desired is of the "impure" sort, at least in contemporary society's eyes. By indulging society in playing "the game," you are excusing yourself from this.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Green Poet

[mewyeon]

It's the societal norm to play "the game." Rushing into a relationship is certainly a bad idea in the long term, and so the frustrating courting process is somewhat justified. I don't have much of a liking for it either.

Trying to tie the knot preemptively may suggest that the relationship desired is of the "impure" sort, at least in contemporary society's eyes. By indulging society in playing "the game," you are excusing yourself from this.

Most people I know who date are rather straightforward about their intentions (myself included). If a friend wants to go out with someone, they usually just ask. That way, there's no confusion as to what's going on. I think playing hard to get or subtle mind games is more a movie/tv thing to make the relationship more interesting in terms of plot/story line.

I wouldn't play hard to get, because that gives guys/girls the wrong idea. You don't want someone thinking they have to "earn" you or prove they're worth your attention, because that is very exploitative and most people with any sense avoid such a boy/girlfriend. Just be straightforward. If you make it clear what they want from them, it'll save you and your romantic interest a good deal of awkwardness. It also shows them that you are an honest person who doesn't play games, which counts for a lot with most people.

Don't take offense, but I think you have the wrong mindset. In dating, there aren't "winners and losers." If you're going after men/women who want you to prove yourself, those are not the men/women you need to be pursuing. Yon don't want a spouse/significant other who's always needing you to prove you're worth their time. You want someone who enjoys being around you and doing things with you.

As for dominance in the relationship, that's up to each person. Some men want a strong, independent woman who can take charge. Other men like to wear the pants in the household and want a woman who's okay with that. Same thing with women: some like to take charge and others are happy to let their spouse lead the way. It all depends on what a person wants.

The rest of your life is a long time to be someone other than yourself. You'd have to be a pretty good actor to pull that off. Honesty is very important in relationships because you have to trust the other person. It's really hard to trust someone who isn't forthcoming with you.

If you just want sex from someone but lie to them about your intentions and make them think you're actually interested in them as a person and not as a sexual conquest, that's going to cause huge problems as well. In either case, honesty matters a great deal. If you're dating boys/girls who lie just to get laid, you're hanging out with the wrong people if you want to find an actual boy/girlfriend.

You've both said everything I've wanted to say (with a bit of trimming lengthwise)! I agree with all this. I really value honesty in a relationship and if I don't perceive there's enough of it, I'll be miserably paranoid the entire time until I sort it out. But to answer one of your OP questions, I believe some people think playing the game (in reference to both relationships and life in general) is lots of fun, as long as they're the ones that win, as you say.

[MacLovin]

You can't be yourself if you want to get a girlfriend or get laid period. If you don't play games then you won't get what you want.

Honest people are boring and they don't have any friends. Being honest will only make you predictable or a complete nutcase ( man this person is really ugly right in the face of said person). Being predictable(not using any game) is good if you want gold diggers that are only after your money/statut.

OP you don't have to feel bad about being manipulative but you don't have to go out of your way either to be manipulative.

Relationship are nothing more than games. Get too serious in them and you'll get hurt REAL BAD.

The only people that will EVER love you inconditionally in life are your family(and even then it's not always the case).

Learn to not take relationships too seriously.

Look at children : They take what they wants without giving a single fuck about everything else. Then they grow up and they have to follow rules in order to take what they wants.

Your advice isn't going to work.

People are people ,and at a young age like 18 it's probobly better to enjoy life before settling down.

Besides, if the one you're interested in is a friend, then just ask her/him out.

[Chiki]

You can't be yourself if you want to get a girlfriend or get laid period. If you don't play games then you won't get what you want.

Completely agree. People today care more about satisfying themselves, regardless of the risk of STDs and pregnancy, than about being themselves and finding someone they can be comfortable with.

[Rehab]

That is about as close to factually incorrect as an assertion about all human relations can possibly get, if only because I'm a direct counterexample: my first mutually romantic (and sexual) relationship got off the ground in a way that I assume other people would call slowly, over a couple months, but it was nothing if not honest, and I'd like to call how we acted considerate. And when we did have sex, it was because we both trusted each other, and were comfortable saying to each other that we wanted it. Being "considerate" isn't the same thing as "manipulative."

[Chiki]

Personal experiences don't represent the majority of people.