SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Anacybele]

I wasn't talking about Final Smashes. I was talking about MM Link being four characters in one because of his four different forms, which Sakurai is no longer doing.

[Florete]

I wasn't talking about Final Smashes. I was talking about MM Link being four characters in one because of his four different forms, which Sakurai is no longer doing.

I don't know how the hell you'd switch between four different forms on one character in the first place, but okay.

[Siegmund]

Honestly, I hope that Ganondorf is cut. I'd much prefer to play as Girahim, he seems like a very unique and interesting character whose move pool I think would be interesting to see.

[King Marth 64]

Honestly, I hope that Ganondorf is cut. I'd much prefer to play as Girahim, he seems like a very unique and interesting character whose move pool I think would be interesting to see.

But, Ganondorf is the main villian in The Legend of Zelda series like Bowser and King Dedede and also a veteran in Melee and Brawl. I don't want him getting cut also.

[Robinigo]

Ganondorf huh, personally I hope he gets a nice overhaul including the sages' sword from twilight princess. I say switch the warlock punch for a strong sword swing that goes a bit faster, has more range, and does as much damage. The main problem I see is changing his side+b, I doubt they'd integrate another fox/falco holodash with him, maybe like little Mac's side+b except ganondorf could use it mid-air. Maybe they could overhaul his final smash as well, instead of attacking once as beast ganon, they could pull a giga-bowser. Then again, that might be breaking this whole "no-transformation" clause. All of this would probably invalidate Magnus as a character, but I'd still love a more sword-oriented Ganondorf

[Jedi]

Jigglypuff has a fan club in Japan that is pretty vocal and that's part of why she was in 64 I know that much

[Anacybele]

Ganondorf won't get cut. Like stated above, he's the Zelda series' main villain. If any other villain should get in beside him though, it should be Vaati. He's the most relevant after him and would have a unique playstyle with his wind magic. His flying eyeball form would be his Final Smash. But Zelda probably isn't getting another rep any time soon with Zelda and Sheik split into their own slots.

[Batter the Beast]

I've never understood why they chose to give Ganondorf Captain Falcon's moveset of all things. If he shows up in smash 4 I hope that he is far less cloney than in melee and brawl.

[Robert Stewart]

I've never understood why they chose to give Ganondorf Captain Falcon's moveset of all things. If he shows up in smash 4 I hope that he is far less cloney than in melee and brawl.

Well, if you believe cednym, that was the only reason Ganondorf got into Melee at all(that he had a similar body type to Falcon and could be made a clone).

[HK Motendra]

When it comes to Ganondorf, Warlock Punch and Darkness Choke can stay. Everything else needs a chsnge imo

[Randoman]

As far as I've seen, no one did.

Well technically, Sal Romano did post the rumour before the E3 presentation:

About a week ago, respectable NeoGAF member Sal Romano, who runs a site called Gematsu, received an email from a source claiming that Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fitness Trainer, Little Mac, Pac-Man, and Mii would be revealed at E3. Sal did not post this on his site because he wasn't able to verify the information, but he did jokingly post the list a day before SSB4's reveal on NeoGAF as a "prediction" just in case it was correct.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=62304489&postcount=2996

Look at the date. It's important to note that the post hasn't been edited at all.

Sal told me that as soon as Wii Fit Trainer was revealed, he ran and posted the list on his site because he knew at that point it couldn't have been a lucky guess from his source.

http://gematsu.com/2013/06/wii-fit-trainer-joins-super-smash-bros

I know you're really skeptical about the rumours, but the fact that it was right about someone as obscure and unexpected as the Wii Fit Trainer shows that this rumour is something we should at least pay attention to (though admittingly not to the extend I do. I'm just still really hungry for more Smash news even after the Direct).

...so um... what kind of WiiU-exclusive game mode do you guys think the game could have...?

Since they deconfirmed an SSE type adventure mode for the Wii U, I'm hoping they'll at least combine the SSE's length and depth with Melee Adventure Mode's Nintendo universe's and enemy representation. They did say that the Wii U game modes will focus on co-op, so I'm guessing they'll at least take parts of the SSE and use them in whatever they're planning for SSBWU. Also, with all the various enemies the 3DS' Smash Run is using, I'm guessing they'll play a big part in the Wii U version's exclusive game mode.

I want to know why Sakurai gives Mario seven reps, Zelda five, Pokemon five, and other franchises two or three. Hell, some even just one. I get that they're the more popular franchises, but it's really not fair.

I highly doubt the Smash Bros. series would sell as if they compromised the more popular series in order to give more characters to lesser known series. I mean look at how much Pokemon X/Y (combined or even separately if you want to show how big those games are) sold compared to Fire Emblem Awakening. Based on units and revenue alone, it makes sense to have more game representation go to the bigger series, whether or not you're a personal fan of them or not. Though 3rd parties are an exception, since they're guests and so much chaos and 3rd party request floods have occurred ever since Snake was revealed for Brawl, and that'd only worsen if a 3rd party company got 2 or more of their characters in.

Though I do agree with your sentiment of wanting lesser known series to have more representation (hence, why I'm really partial to the retro characters like Ice Climbers and R.O.B.). I mean, Mario and Link will always be getting new games, so it'd be quite nice if characters that were no longer getting games would get more spotlight in Smash Bros. to even things out. I kind of wish that Super Smash Bros. Memories rumour for the 3DS was true...

Well, if you believe cednym, that was the only reason Ganondorf got into Melee at all(that he had a similar body type to Falcon and could be made a clone).

Yep. Plus, Melee's programming heavily implies that Ganondorf and Roy were two of the last playable characters programmed into Melee. All the other clones were programmed in as possible Classic Mode opponents (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu, and Falco), yet Ganondorf and Roy weren't and are impossible to face as AI opponents. That supports cednym's post quite a bit in regards to Melee's roster development.

When it comes to Ganondorf, Warlock Punch and Darkness Choke can stay. Everything else needs a change imo

Well, Ganondorf's side tilt and down tilt were both moves he used actually used in Twilight Princess, supposedly.

At first, I felt Sakurai would keep Ganondorf the same in SSB4, based on how he kept him a hands on fighter from Melee to Brawl. But based on how much Sakurai has been changing certain veterans in SSB4 (like Bowser and Sheik), I'm thinking Ganondorf getting a moveset change to reflect his character better has a good chance of happening.

I don't mind either way, though. I've never been a big Zelda fan and I find Ganondorf fun to play as in both Melee and Brawl (even if he is bottom tier, I still find him more usable than Melee Bowser, Melee Kirby, or even Mewtwo).

Edited April 19, 2014 by Randoman

[Anacybele]

I never cared that G-Dorf was a clone. I never liked him anyway. Vaati was always my favorite Zelda villain. He is just freaking epic and badass and has a really interesting backstory. He also has cooler forms. He turns into a monstrous sorcerer and then a flying eyeball with bat wings and claws. Ganondorf? He turns into a giant pig. Lame. Vaati was also more of a challenge for me, particularly in TMC. Took me eight tries the first time around. Ganondorf? Never broke a sweat, even when he turned into Ganon.

Vaati is also so awesome that he needs THREE different theme songs to show it. I really wish the Zelda team would work with Capcom again to make more Four Sword Zeldas... Or just buy the rights from Capcom to do so.

I doubt Vaati will get in to SSB4, but someday, I want him playable in this series. Someday. :D

[Florete]

I've never understood why they chose to give Ganondorf Captain Falcon's moveset of all things. If he shows up in smash 4 I hope that he is far less cloney than in melee and brawl.

Melee, yes, but I don't get how people can see Ganondorf as a Falcon clone in Brawl. I feel like that's just a holdover from Melee and if Ganondorf always acted as he did in Brawl, no one would have considered him a clone.

Well technically, Sal Romano did post the rumour before the E3 presentation:

I know you're really skeptical about the rumours, but the fact that it was right about someone as obscure and unexpected as the Wii Fit Trainer shows that this rumour is something we should at least pay attention to (though admittingly not to the extend I do. I'm just still really hungry for more Smash news even after the Direct).

Interesting. I didn't know about that post. That does make the rumors more believable, but I'm still not going to believe Pac-man will make it in unless he is officially revealed. Because that's just absurd. Not only for the fact that he's a random third-party character, but also because I can't imagine how he'd play. One of the reasons Sakurai went with Ice Climbers in Melee over Excitebike is because he couldn't make the latter believably jump around stages. What the hell would he do with Pac-man?

EDIT: Although I suppose Pac-man's design has been updated to have arms and legs, so it could theoretically work...Still, Pac-man in Smash Bros? Please no.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[Acacia Sgt]

Interesting. I didn't know about that post. That does make the rumors more believable, but I'm still not going to believe Pac-man will make it in unless he is officially revealed. Because that's just absurd. Not only for the fact that he's a random third-party character, but also because I can't imagine how he'd play. One of the reasons Sakurai went with Ice Climbers in Melee over Excitebike is because he couldn't make the latter believably jump around stages. What the hell would he do with Pac-man?

Maybe like in SFxT?

Yeah... very unlikely...

[Randoman]

Interesting. I didn't know about that post. That does make the rumors more believable, but I'm still not going to believe Pac-man will make it in unless he is officially revealed. Because that's just absurd. Not only for the fact that he's a random third-party character, but also because I can't imagine how he'd play. One of the reasons Sakurai went with Ice Climbers in Melee over Excitebike is because he couldn't make the latter believably jump around stages. What the hell would he do with Pac-man?

EDIT: Although I suppose Pac-man's design has been updated to have arms and legs, so it could theoretically work...Still, Pac-man in Smash Bros? Please no.

Well, he is Bandai Namco's most iconic character, so I'd hardly call him random.

Also, you might want to see the Bandai Namco (or at least Namco, since there's no Bandai items as of now) items they've shown off from after the direct:

Just thought I'd show this to you since most people would think that Pac-Man would be one of the first Bandai Namco items/in-game references they'd reveal, but he's not. It doesn't exactly bump up the possibility of Pac-Man being playable too much, but with those two Namco items shown (and neither of them deconfirming Pac-Man), it does imply that slight possibility of Pac-Man potentially being playable, similarly to how Rosalina didn't cameo in the Mario Galaxy stage because she was playable.

[Robert Stewart]

Interesting. I didn't know about that post. That does make the rumors more believable, but I'm still not going to believe Pac-man will make it in unless he is officially revealed. Because that's just absurd. Not only for the fact that he's a random third-party character, but also because I can't imagine how he'd play.

I'm sorry, but how is Pac-Man and "absurd" addition? Or a "random" third-party character?

I get not being interested in Pac-man. I'm not particularly interested in him either, and there are other Namo characters I'd rather see. However, I think dismissing the notion of Pac-man in Smash 4 altogether is absurd when you take in to consideration:

1) Pac-man actually has a fairly strong history with Nintendo. Pac-Man was one of the first 3rd party games on the Famicoms, and while he has had games released on other systems, most of his major game sin the years since have appeared on Nintendo platforms. There's also his appearances in the arcade Mario Kart GP series, and the fact that Pac-Man VS. was developed by Nintendo.

2) Pac-Man is Shigeru Miyamoto's favourite video game character.

3) Pac-man is an icon of the golden age of arcades. (Seriously, my mom doesn't even play freaking Wii Sports, yet she knows who Pac-Man is.)

4) Namco is freaking developing the damn game.

One of the reasons Sakurai went with Ice Climbers in Melee over Excitebike is because he couldn't make the latter believably jump around stages. What the hell would he do with Pac-man?

There's always the Pac-Man World games to take inspiration from, or The Ghostly Adventures. Or he could just make something up like he did for Capitan Falcon or Fox.

Edited April 19, 2014 by shinpichu

[Florete]

Or he could just make something up like he did for Capitan Falcon or Fox.

They're anthropomorphic.

All things considered, I guess Pac-man isn't random like I felt (and hoped) at first, but...ugh. He just doesn't seem like a Smash Bros. character at all to me.

[BANRYU]

He [Pacman] just doesn't seem like a Smash Bros. character at all to me.

I completely agree. Movesets and things like that are always incidental when talking playable characters, and are never a factor when deciding who to include/disclude; but this is a much more prevalent and important point.

Pacman isn't a Nintendo character, and isn't in any way significant to Nintendo's history or anything of the sort. Yes, I know he has had games on Nintendo consoles; yes, I know he crossed over with Mario Kart in the arcades (it's important to note that most everything in Smash Bros relates to console releases), but he is NOT a Nintendo character. Super Smash Bros is a franchise about Nintendo characters. That's what people like RFoF and myself mean when we say that Pacman doesn't 'seem like a smash bros character', I think. Megaman is a much better example of a 3rd party character significant to Nintendo's history, and hell even Sonic has been making a lot of appearances on Nintendo consoles since about the Gamecube era (I don't know how to defend Snake though; you've got me there).

Besides that, do I even need to start citing all the times that Sakurai has said that Namco/Bandai won't get special consideration for character selection, even though they're co-developing? I recall reading once that Sakurai said that 'adding too many 3rd party characters would distract from the theme of the game' or something along those lines (I can't find the source though so take that with a grain of salt I suppose).

Bottom line, I don't think Pacman is NEARLY as likely as everyone thinks he is.

Personally, I think the Special Flag is about the most we can expect in terms of Namco references-- as it should be. It's a nice little guest thing/easter egg, but there shouldn't be so much that it distracts from the fact that it's a game about Nintendo characters-- NOT video game characters, just Nintendo.

[Book Bro]

I think Pac-Man is much more likely and fits in a lot better than Snake. And he got in. I do agree that his chances aren't too high because third-party slots are limited.

About Ganondorf, I actually don't want him to get his TP sword. If he gets a weapon I'd rather see his WW katanas or a trident. But I don't think he really needs a weapon, as he usually isn't a close-combat fighter in Zelda games. I hope they make him less slow/heavy too.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Owain Dark

[TheWill]

About Ganondorf, I actually don't want him to get his TP sword. If he gets a weapon I'd rather see his WW katanas or a trident. But I don't think he really needs a weapon, as he usually isn't a close-combat fighter in Zelda games. I hope they make him less slow/heavy too.

The Wind Waker-variation of his fighting style was the one I liked most, but given its cartoony design, I'd rather see something that looks more 'cool', so to speak. So it dosen't clash with Twilight Ganon's design, similar to how I personally think Phantom looks gimmicky as hell when Zelda uses it. They could've made it look a lot cooler instead of mixing Twilight and Spirit Tracks together.

[Jave]

I think it's incredibly hypocrite to pull the "He is not a Nintendo character" card against Pac-Man yet come with all sort of arbitrary reasons to justify Mega Man and even Sonic. Seriously people, you're free to dislike the character and not want him in, but the whole "He's not Nintendo!" argument stopped being valid back when Snake got in.

The only conditions that Sakurai put for 3rd party characters was that they originated in a video game and they have been on at least one Nintendo system. Pac-Man fits both of those.

[Jedi]

People also seem to forget Snakes been on a few Nintendo consoles starting all the way back on the NES

[Book Bro]

The Wind Waker-variation of his fighting style was the one I liked most, but given its cartoony design, I'd rather see something that looks more 'cool', so to speak. So it dosen't clash with Twilight Ganon's design, similar to how I personally think Phantom looks gimmicky as hell when Zelda uses it. They could've made it look a lot cooler instead of mixing Twilight and Spirit Tracks together.

Yeah you might be right. I agree about Zelda's Phantom, I was really hoping it was an Assist since they really don't feel like they should go together. It depends what Ganondorf looks like this time, though given Link and Zelda still have their TP designs he probably will too.

[Florete]

I think it's incredibly hypocrite to pull the "He is not a Nintendo character" card against Pac-Man yet come with all sort of arbitrary reasons to justify Mega Man and even Sonic. Seriously people, you're free to dislike the character and not want him in, but the whole "He's not Nintendo!" argument stopped being valid back when Snake got in.

It's perfectly valid, it just isn't the end of it. For the record, I also think Snake doesn't feel at all like a Smash Bros. character

[Jave]

In another topic, I wonder if we'll get a timed screenshot tonight. It is, after all, Mother 3's anniversary!

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jave