SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[HK Motendra]

It was expected

[Anacybele]

I didn't expect it...

But perhaps there's still a chance Ike will get the shockwave. I just realized that in the shot of him where he's blocking an attack from Little Mac, Ike could just be doing a regular shielding. It might not actually be Counter. Counter is a move he shares with Marth, so replacing THAT would actually give him an entirely unique moveset.

I'm not really as hopeful now as I was before because I don't want to wind up really disappointed again, but it's still a possibility.

[HK Motendra]

If it was a regular shielding, then where's the shield?

Also, its not like anyone ever got a change in moveset, unless it were actually necessary, barring Mario, so what would make Ike any different?

[Anacybele]

I think there's a split second or two where the shield doesn't appear.

Plenty of characters have gotten moveset changes. Charizard, Zelda, Sheik, ZSS, Luigi, Lucario, and as you point out, Mario got a new move in Brawl. There's no reason Ike can't be allowed to.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Anacybele

[HK Motendra]

[spoiler=Let's look at the image again]

If it really was a shield, that aesthetic..... whatever that thing is that appears when a move cancels out, wouldn't still be there, if it was within that split second, as you say.

As for everyone you listed:

• Charizard had to, since its no longer a transforming character. The same applies with Zelda, Shiek
• ZSS, needed a better recovery move than that tether recovery move, which was also taken out from Olimar
• Lucario didn't change in moveset. What they worked on is its Aura mechanic
• What about Luigi has changed? All of his special moves are the same as before

Edited May 29, 2014 by The Chosen One

[Anacybele]

Lucario had his Mega form added. Luigi got a new Final Smash.

And that aesthetic round shape is probably the shield.

[Jave]

I would say those changes in Lucario and Luigi's Final Smashes make sense, since their originals really felt like Sakurai tagged them on in a rushed manner. At least, the new Final Smashes are now actually recognizable moves from their respective games.

What sucks about Ike retaining Eruption and red fire is that it seems to lower Roy's chances of returning even more.

[kingddd]

[spoiler=Let's look at the image again]

If it really was a shield, that aesthetic..... whatever that thing is that appears when a move cancels out, wouldn't still be there, if it was within that split second, as you say.

As for everyone you listed:

• Charizard had to, since its no longer a transforming character. The same applies with Zelda, Shiek
• ZSS, needed a better recovery move than that tether recovery move, which was also taken out from Olimar
• Lucario didn't change in moveset. What they worked on is its Aura mechanic
• What about Luigi has changed? All of his special moves are the same as before

Not only that, a lot of the characters animation and movesets weren't changed. Maybe one or two moves were adjusted a bit but nothing more. Luigi's only biggest change is his jump animation and he probably had small tweaks but nothing more.

Sakurai did say the majority of the coding was just ported over from brawl with small adjustments and tweaks. You're not going to see insane drastic changes for every single character in their default movesets. If you're expecting a complete makeover for character animations and movesets just because they look asthetically different, you're going to be in for a disappointment.

I personally wouldn't even be surprised if Ike had the exact same moveset like in Brawl but only a few speed and tweaking balance changes. Nothing more.

[Anacybele]

It would make sense for Ike to have Ragnell's shockwave too, since he could actually do it in his games, unlike Eruption. And yeah, Eruption could've been given to Roy.

But at least Eruption is actually a cool move and Sakurai didn't go back to the idea of Ike throwing Ragnell. >.> (he should only be doing that in Aether)

I never said I expected big changes to be made to EVERY single character. All I expected was Ike getting one new move. That was it. And little tweaks here and there for characters, like you said. How else can the game be more balanced if no changes were made to anyone?

Edited May 29, 2014 by Anacybele

[HK Motendra]

Lucario had his Mega form added. Luigi got a new Final Smash.

And that aesthetic round shape is probably the shield.

I wasn't really counting FSes, but I guess those still count as well.

Wrong. the shield that's put up envelopes the majority of the player's body, and color varies, depending on the player. What that is right there, only appears when either two attacks collide, or the attack was nullified.

It would make sense for Ike to have Ragnell's shockwave too, since he could actually do it in his games, unlike Eruption. And yeah, Eruption could've been given to Roy.

But at least Eruption is actually a cool move and Sakurai didn't go back to the idea of Ike throwing Ragnell. >.> (he should only be doing that in Aether)

I never said I expected big changes to be made to EVERY single character. All I expected was Ike getting one new move. That was it. And little tweaks here and there for characters, like you said. How else can the game be more balanced if no changes were made to anyone?

As for this, a new move can have a drastic alter in balance for a character. For example, with Sheik's new side special, she no longer has a tether recovery. Then again, I'm unsure if those were ever considered a game breaking, or nerfing strategy in the first place, since I never actually liked using them.

Then there's Pit, who can now reflect guard from both sides, with the new Guardian Orbitars, and has a more offensive side special.

And from Melee to Brawl, Marth's Shield Breaker could actually be used as a recovery, while being somewhat nerfed in breaking power

If Ike's Eruption were removed in place of his shockwave, he loses the one thing about the move that makes it easier to get: the invulnerability. And if said shockwave had the same power as Eruption, he'd be broken as fuck

Edited May 29, 2014 by The Chosen One

[Anacybele]

Invulnerability? What are you talking about? Eruption doesn't make Ike invulnerable, in fact it does the complete OPPOSITE and causes recoil damage. Sakurai mentioned it himself in his description of that pic. :/

And who said anything about the shockwave attack needing to be just as strong as Eruption? Of course such a thing would make Ike broken as fuck. xP

Also, I had forgotten about the blue fire thing. That's kind of a disappointment too, though Great Aether could still get it, I suppose.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Anacybele

[HK Motendra]

By invulnerability, I mean that just as you release the move, he will shrug off any attack that he receives. He'll still take damage, but the move won't be interrupted

[Anacybele]

Oh, THAT. You're right, I forgot about that part.

But if Ike got the shockwave, he'd gain a projectile which could open up better options for him. It doesn't need to be as fast an attack as in his games, it could be dumbed down a little like Aether was so it isn't completely broken.

Ike works best when he can get a move in before his opponent does due to his range being bigger than many other characters thanks to Ragnell's large size. But since he's slow, he has trouble doing that. The shockwave could've helped.

[HK Motendra]

And tha's what proper timing is needed for, with his attacks. That, or a slight speed up in execution would do the trick, but even so, if it had any serious knock back potential, that'd still give him an unfair advantage among hard hitters

Edited May 29, 2014 by The Chosen One

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I suppose. If Eruption just HAD to stay though, I don't see why it couldn't at least get blue fire...

[shadowofchaos]

My gosh, this thread is so weird when a whole page is like... alternating between "view it anyway" and actual posts.

Just speaking of Eruption as a move in Ike's arsenal... the super armor and "no one expects you to use it" factor is the only useful things about it in Brawl.

That or you're just "screwing around".

The "weak meteor smash" property it had and killing someone was something you only saw once in your life.

In casual play even, it's rare to see it used. At least Roy's charge B move had an arc that you can use as a "pseudo-smash" in the air in Melee.

Being able to charge it up and keep the charge after shielding like how Brawl Minus did it felt like what made it freaking USABLE.

[Randoman]

The following characters are playable at the tournament (and probably the Best Buy E3 Demo as well):

Mario

Donkey Kong

Link

Samus

Kirby

Fox

Pikachu

Bowser

Zelda

Marth

Pit

Zero Suit Samus

Olimar

Sonic

Villager

Mega Man

Wii Fit Trainer

Rosalina

Little Mac

Greninja

I'm not sure if that's the whole playable tourney roster or if they'll be adding the shown E3 2014 newcomers once they're revealed.

So I guess Mario, Marth, and Rosalina are the characters I'll be really looking forward to trying out at the demo, then. I'm really wanting to see how they've powered up Bowser as well. I'll probably give Greninja a try as well.

And I guess it goes without saying that the demo roster shinpichu posted is fake. It's a shame I won't be able to try out Luigi and Lucario like I wanted to, but at least I've got Rosalina.

I'm glad to see Ken being a participant in the tournament. He always seemed like a cool and nice guy. And I'm glad to see that Mew2King isn't in the tournament. Knowing him, he'd probably be way too critical of SSB4 towards Nintendo's staff and quite ungrateful for even being invited to the event due to SSB4's physics "not being Melee's." He'd probably also troll, sandbag, and purposely lose matches, knowing him and his past records (especially during the "play against the tournament winner" matches if he happened to win the entire tournament). I'm quite suprised PC Chris and ChuDat aren't in (specifically the former, since he did beat out Ken for quite a while as the best Melee player), but I'm just happy they have Ken participating.

On a side note, I don't follow the tournament scene and tournament players heavily, so if Mew2King, PC Chris, or ChuDat has changed their tourney names or something, please tell me.

Not 100% sure, but I think I got everything except all the notices and maybe some stickers. I know I unlocked everything in the...blocks page thing. I think I might have used a hammer, but I recall all the really difficult ones not being smashable anyway.

Exactly how I beat it as well.

All challenges that are Boss Battles related can't be smashed with a Gold Hammer. The Crazy Hand trophy also can't be unlocked with a Gold Hammer, despite it being unlocked by Intense Classic Mode and not Boss Battles. Those are the only ones that I recall not being Gold Hammer smashable. Strangely, supposedly the PAL version has all windows as Gold Hammer Smashable, even the Boss Battles related ones.

I remember resorting to the Charizard Rock Smash strategy for Intense Boss Battles, until I realized his slowness was really bad in terms of dodging the bosses attacks and Charizard's attacks and movement being way too laggy.

Key to 15 min brawl is knock all alloys but two off so they don't respawn.

I resorted to the two alloy strategy as well. Though I personally used R.O.B. since he could jetpack around and underneath the stage to buy time.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Randoman

[NoNameAtAll]

GameCube controller adapter announced.

http://www.gonintendo.com/s/229348-nintendo-announces-gamecube-controller-adapter-for-wii-u

And there was much rejoicing. :D

[Anacybele]

^I just heard about that on Miiverse. Pretty cool. ^^

If that's the demo roster, I guess I have no need to go try it. None of the characters I use are on that list. :( Except for Marth, but he's the one I use the least. It wouldn't be worth it.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Anacybele

[shadowofchaos]

If that's the demo roster, I guess I have no need to go try it. None of the characters I use are on that list. :( Except for Marth, but he's the one I use the least. It wouldn't be worth it.

Haha.

So your only enthusiasm about smash are specific characters?

Still wondering how the speed of the gameplay is.

They did specifically say they tailored it to be something between Melee and Brawl.

Edited May 29, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

Haha.

So your only enthusiasm about smash are specific characters?

Did I say that? No.

I'd have to drive for almost an hour to reach the nearest location. It's not worth it for characters I won't be using much at all.

[solrocknroll]

SoC, do you really have to dig into Ana at every conceivable opportunity? What did she do to you?

I can't go to the demo because the closest ones to me are Knoxville and Memphis, and there's no way I could convince someone to take me to a Best Buy in a far away city.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Yuffie Kisaragi

[Quintessence]

zomgo yes, GC controller sounds awesome

I hope Ninty'll do new controllers because oldies would be kinda meh :(

Also, no Luigi, Toon Link, Peach, Dedede, Lucario, Yoshi, Diddy, Zard, Shiek nor Ike. Incoming rage spotted :o

[shadowofchaos]

It is a demo, after all.

[Comet]

Eruption was never really useless. It was one of the most powerful moves in the game and good for KOs. But it's also pointless on Ike, who could've had something more reasonable and even more useful like that shockwave move. It would've given Ike a projectile and probably a buff, which FE characters just don't ever get for some reason.

the fe characters that made it through games (marth and ike, i know, too much data) didn't really need them. marth was good in both games, and ike wasn't particularly bad.