SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Samias]

I wouldn't be surprised if the projectiles made him high tier. This happened with Snake after all, I think.

Snake's projectiles are not what makes him strong. His missile leaves him extremely open and his grenades have a bit of a delay on them. The C4 is alright but it's more of a setup trap. What makes Snake really good is his strange, large hitbox on his up tilt and forward tilt that have nothing to do with his body (perhaps leftovers from a different moveset), and overall strange and disjointed hit box arrangement. I think Wii Fit Trainer might end up like Snake with some of her odd attack formations rather than Mega Man, who is largely doing things unseen in Smash with his large number of ranged normals.

[PKL]

Reflectors generally suck at their job, so I don't think Megaman players need to worry about that. He has a quite good Forward Air, decent recovery and other stuff that could be effective. It's too early to tell, but good players that use projectile based characters dont even fear them eventually. Also, what made Snake strong is his control of the stage with his projectiles and good close combat game.

[Anacybele]

Snake's projectiles are not what makes him strong. His missile leaves him extremely open and his grenades have a bit of a delay on them. The C4 is alright but it's more of a setup trap. What makes Snake really good is his strange, large hitbox on his up tilt and forward tilt that have nothing to do with his body (perhaps leftovers from a different moveset), and overall strange and disjointed hit box arrangement. I think Wii Fit Trainer might end up like Snake with some of her odd attack formations rather than Mega Man, who is largely doing things unseen in Smash with his large number of ranged normals.

Oh, I see. My mistake then. xP

I don't think we should make any real judgements until the game is out and we've played these characters for ourselves though.

[Galestorm1233]

Reflectors generally suck at their job, so I don't think Megaman players need to worry about that. He has a quite good Forward Air, decent recovery and other stuff that could be effective. It's too early to tell, but good players that use projectile based characters dont even fear them eventually. Also, what made Snake strong is his control of the stage with his projectiles and good close combat game.

playing snake takes quite a bit of skill as well as great intuition, he relies on mind games and that's not a game a lot of players can pull off repeatedly.

also, projectile-centric characters have a history of being on the lower end of the rankings in SSB, excluding Olimar of course.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Galestorm1233

[PKL]

playing snake takes quite a bit of skill as well as great intuition, he relies on mind games and that's not a game a lot of players can pull off repeatedly.

also, projectile-centric characters have a history of being on the lower end of the rankings in SSB, excluding Olimar of course.

I never said he didn't...

And that's definetely not true.

[Galestorm1233]

I never said he didn't...

And that's definetely not true.

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list

Snake and Olimar being the exceptions, the range-focused characters are generally lower on the spectrum.

The thing is, this doesn't represent max potential, it represents how many people can play each character efficiently, how much money has been won by each character, etc.

[PKL]

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list

Snake and Olimar being the exceptions, the range-focused characters are generally lower on the spectrum.

The thing is, this doesn't represent max potential, it represents how many people can play each character efficiently, how much money has been won by each character, etc.

You're completely making that up.

In Brawl:

Olimar, Diddy Kong, Snake, Falco, Toon Link, Pit, Fox (large part of his gameplay is his lasergame), ROB are all higher on the list. And most lower tier characters are ones that lack an approach option and aren't ranged characters:

Mario, Bowser, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Zelda and Ganon aren't projectile-based at all.

Samus and Link are the only ones there that have a projectile-centric game and they're not bad because of their projectile game. They're bad for other reasons. In Samus's case is because of her terrible options for killing and sluggishness. Link's is mostly because of his recovery, slugishness and difficulty with mechanics of the game.

[Anacybele]

Speaking of Link, I hope he's gotten a lot of help this time. The poor guy has never been more than low tier. D:

[shadowofchaos]

Snake's projectiles are not what makes him strong. His missile leaves him extremely open and his grenades have a bit of a delay on them. The C4 is alright but it's more of a setup trap. What makes Snake really good is his strange, large hitbox on his up tilt and forward tilt that have nothing to do with his body (perhaps leftovers from a different moveset), and overall strange and disjointed hit box arrangement. I think Wii Fit Trainer might end up like Snake with some of her odd attack formations rather than Mega Man, who is largely doing things unseen in Smash with his large number of ranged normals.

You rang?

For your convenience, have a higher quality image... link.

As well as the following gif:

[Galestorm1233]

You're completely making that up.

In Brawl:

Olimar, Diddy Kong, Snake, Falco, Toon Link, Pit, Fox (large part of his gameplay is his lasergame), ROB are all higher on the list. And most lower tier characters are ones that lack an approach option and aren't ranged characters:

Mario, Bowser, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Zelda and Ganon aren't projectile-based at all.

Samus and Link are the only ones there that have a projectile-centric game and they're not bad because of their projectile game. They're bad for other reasons. In Samus's case is because of her terrible options for killing and sluggishness. Link's is mostly because of his recovery, slugishness and difficulty with mechanics of the game.

then where we vary is our definition of a projectile-based character. I'm talking about characters that rely heavily upon their ranged attacks in order to be effective, and while I'll give you Toon Link, Fox, and Diddy Kong (ROB is debatable, and is still on the lower half anyway), Zelda definitely relies heavily on her fireball, when you are not within melee range of the enemy, odds are you are using the fireball abusively. You also completely ignored the only characters that have as many range atacks as Megaman, Lucas and Ness, who have been consistently low in the rankings of each game.

also, the thing with Snake earlier, I wasn't fighting you on that, I was agreeing

Edited July 4, 2014 by Galestorm1233

[Rehab]

At least we can all agree that being a hardcore infighter like Wario and Little Mac is a foolproof guarantee of being a dominant character, right?

(looks at captain falcon)

(weeps silently)

[Jedi]

Speaking of Link, I hope he's gotten a lot of help this time. The poor guy has never been more than low tier. D:

He was mid in Melee. High Mid in Brazilian and European tier lists

[Anacybele]

Not really. According to the list Galestorm linked, Melee Link is E tier, with D, C, B, A, and S all above him. That qualifies as low to me. Upper low, but low nonetheless.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Anacybele

[Galestorm1233]

Not really. According to the list Galestorm linked, Melee Link is E tier, with D, C, B, A, and S all above him. That qualifies as low to me. Upper low, but low nonetheless.

I'd consider C through E to be mid tier, above that top tier, and below that low tier personally, but that's just me

[Anacybele]

I consider S to be top tier, A and B to be high tier, C and D to be mid tier, and E and below to be low tier, and the bottom most tier to be bottom tier. But I guess we all have our interpretations. :P

Edited July 4, 2014 by Anacybele

[Galestorm1233]

So, anyone else excited to see Palutena in action? She seems to have an interesting moveset.

[Jedi]

So, anyone else excited to see Palutena in action? She seems to have an interesting moveset.

I'm interested yes, surprised that one of her B's isn't her solar flare she uses in KI:U

"Cover your eyes!"

[Galestorm1233]

I'm interested yes, surprised that one of her B's isn't her solar flare she uses in KI:U

"Cover your eyes!"

lol. this immediately came into my head when you said that

[Carter]

I'm just glad Zero Suit is #9. I'll take that and go.

I really hope Peach and Zelda can be at higher places in the SSB4 tier list. Peach had a pretty decent spot, but Zelda... second worst in the game?

That crushes me. Her phantom slash worries me. I know she's been made to run faster, teleport faster, and has a larger explosion with Din's fire, but I feel like the phantom slash will bring her down.

And, does anyone know if Peach's Melee jump is brought back to Smash 4? Or is it her short brawl jump again?

[Anacybele]

Pff, the one character I used that made it past mid tier was Marth and he's my least used of the bunch. xP And right now people are saying he was nerfed in SSB4, so I could be stuck with no high tiers this time...

Fix Ike and Luigi Sakurai, pleeease.

[Galestorm1233]

Pff, the one character I used that made it past mid tier was Marth and he's my least used of the bunch. xP And right now people are saying he was nerfed in SSB4, so I could be stuck with no high tiers this time...

Fix Ike and Luigi Sakurai, pleeease.

fortunately my secondary was Zero Suit, and she looks quite good in the new game. Not to mention I'm pretty sure I'm gonna like Greninja :)

[Carter]

Those jet boots do justice. If she was good in Brawl, i can only imagine how good she'll be in SSB4.

[Galestorm1233]

I know, I was really happy when I saw Zero was playing as her in the tournament, he did the character justice, only person I would've liked to see play her more than Zero would have been Salem, but unfortunately he wasn't in the tournament. Also, dat flip jump man,that looks REAL nice, can't wait for that :D

[PKL]

I'm just glad Zero Suit is #9. I'll take that and go.

I really hope Peach and Zelda can be at higher places in the SSB4 tier list. Peach had a pretty decent spot, but Zelda... second worst in the game?

That crushes me. Her phantom slash worries me. I know she's been made to run faster, teleport faster, and has a larger explosion with Din's fire, but I feel like the phantom slash will bring her down.

And, does anyone know if Peach's Melee jump is brought back to Smash 4? Or is it her short brawl jump again?

As long as she doesn't have a good way to pressure shields/get out of pressure, Zelda is going to suck. From what I hear, her Din's Fire still gets beat out by every aerial in the game, making it quite useless for zoning. Her lightning kicks are still sweetspotting only super close to her so they can't be used to space on a shield or hit with the tipper to try and kill with more safety. Her uair seems to kill less (why the F would the balance team even nerf zelda wow). Her new down b is garbage as it doesnt have much range if not charged and if charged, it is obviously too slow. The down b phantom also disappears if hit which is just dumb. Her grab is still laggy to come out like a tether so she wont have a good grab game as usual. Her usmash also seems to be nerfed in every way possible. The only positives I've heard is Nayru's Love being a kill move/faster, faster movement in the ground (which is nice but not enough if her moves still suck and her grab is still bad) and that her lightning kicks sourspot aren't as punishable on hit even though they still do 4%.

As for Peach, I've seen her melee double jump back in the direct. When they show the balloon fight stage.

EDIT: Something else I remember is that her utilt doesnt kill now but it might be a good thing if it has been speed up and can combo.

Edited July 4, 2014 by PKL

[Jedi]

Sakurai and Namco should have paid attention to PM:Zelda. Her very trap based dins fire and better properties are so much more fun.

Plus her PM dins fire reminds me a lot of Aoko from Melty Blood