SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Vicious Sal]

Except for the fact that SS Link is a palette swap himself.

Physically, no alterations were made, only colour wise. Same goes for Wireframe mac, the model is exactly the same, therefore it is a palette swap. An intricate one, but a palette swap nonetheless.

But it's not a case where Link's tunic simply changed color. Different design markings were added as well, and a lot of them.

Therefore, it is not a palette swap.

Example:

I have a white shirt. (Standard)

I paint it black. (Palette swap)

I add different design markings, and a lot of them. (Still a palette swap)

The shirt gains length so that it resembles a dress (Alternate costume)

In every case except the last one, the only thing that is changed is the coloration, which has everything to do with the Palette. It doesn't matter if I paint a white wall yellow, or paint it yellow with intricate details and markings, the wall will retain it's shape and only change colour wise. How can this concept be so difficult to grasp.

If Link would suddenly lose his hat and gauntlet, it would be an alternate costume, because the model has been changed. This has not happened, therefore it is a palette swap.

Wikipedia:

"One reason palette swaps are used is to save memory. In early computer gaming, when cartridges were the main storage medium and memory capacity was both scarce and expensive, a single sprite could be reused by changing its palette.

As such, many new objects could be created without the need to produce new graphics from scratch, which saved both production costs and development time."

SS Link and Wireframe mac both have no new graphics made from scratch added to them. For clarification, new graphics refers to models, additional mass and other textures that change the model of a character, not their colouring.

EDIT:

BANRYU, can you take over? I Facepalmed so hard I have a fractured skull. =[

l

V

Edited July 2, 2014 by Vicious Sal

[Anacybele]

So painting a white shirt black is the same thing as changing the design markings? Yeah, that makes A LOT of sense. :/

But it doesn't matter, I'm not changing my opinion.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[HK Motendra]

Ana, you're not grasping exactly what they're saying here.

If you compare Little Mac & Wireframe Mac, you'll notice that their physical characteristics, while different in looks, are still the same. This is where you need to understand that character texture and character model are not the same.

Models pertain to the physical body shape and structure of a character. For example, Link's model has his actual bodyso he'll followed by his hat, sword, shield, sheath, etc. Now, let's say if by some phenomenon, the master sword was replaced with the Tyrfing. The two swords are v individually different, but the model is still the same because regardless of what he has in that left hand of his, the model says that its a sword, s so he'll use whatever item as just that; a sword

Texture is merely how the model looks like from your eyes. Link's SS outfit is definitely different, the core elements, like his sword, shield, and hat as I mentioned earlier are still intact. The appearance may be inspired by Link's SS clothes, but its still the hero's tunic. Just with a new appearance.

Wire frame Mac is the same. He may not have skin, but his physical features, his head, hair, shorts, gloves, and shoes are still there.The jumpsuit is a new model because it doesn't follow the same blueprint of having shorts and hair (maybe his eyes too?). Instead of hair, you see a hood. Instead of shorts, you see sweatpants.

A not so big change in model, but noticeable. Palettes are changes in texture, not model. The SS Link is a texture, as is Wire Frame Mac, while hooded jumpsuit Mac is an alternative

EDIT: if you need another example, I've seen a Marth texture hack that made him look like Ephraim. He even made the Falchion into a lance. But he still used it like a sword

Edited July 2, 2014 by The King

[Anacybele]

Except character model and texture wasn't what I was talking about. I know full well that Wireframe Mac and SS Link have no changes in the actual model. But they DO have more than just different colors on their standard outfits. THAT is what I'm getting at.

Not exactly a palette swap, but not exactly a full alternate costume either. More of an in between.

[solrocknroll]

Just because there are more colors doesn't make SS Link and Wireframe Mac not a recolor like every other recolor. I mean, models can hold way more color than sprites, so they can easily add new colors like a regular palette swap.

[Anacybele]

Sigh... What EVER. We're obviously not going to agree, so let's just change the subject.

I'm sad that there's STILL been no mention of the stage builder. :( I just pick a god and pray that Sakurai finally shows it in the next direct.

[Jave]

In Brawl, Ness had two palette swaps where he wore a different shirt and Dedede had three where he wore a different belt. Wireframe Mac and SS Link are more akin to those, as they're more complicated than a simple color change, but still palette swaps by definition.

Ah, I see Ana resorted to the "Whatever" card already. Time to change the subject.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Jave

[shadowofchaos]

When it comes to texture hacking, I remember when they were able to implement vertex hacking eventually in Brawl.

That was a huge change as you can actually change the shapes of said textures instead of just changing the colors, the patterns, etc.

...Hahaha, I remember a specific texture hack where Marth was turned into Sephiroth with his masamune... but the hitboxes were still the same, so that was something that always threw me off.

[PKL]

After playing a friend's Project M with a custom Skyward Sword Zelda with an orange Nayru's Love, I realize I need Skyward Sword Zelda in Smash 4. Make it happen, Sakurai (and please buff her)

[Jotari]

A simple Palette Swap can still be classed as an alternate costume, however smash is going to class alts. I dont know if they will simply be choosen like the current palette swaps are or will they be in their own special selection screen.

Also since we have Radiant Dawn Ike now, I would love to see him use an Axe some how, maybe as one of his alternate specials.

[Alertcircuit]

I hope stage builder returns, it had some fun as a novelty. I fondly remember my friends and I making an enclosed stage with only one or two open gaps to get hit through, and we named it Pinball.

[Anacybele]

Oh, I'd love to see Ike use an axe too! But it probably won't happen since the only characters that will get completely different specials are Palutena and Miis. But I guess sometime in the future, Sakurai could reach his inner troll again and go "Oh, I lied. Other characters have a couple different specials too!" :P

As for the stage builder, it would be really stupid NOT for it to return. It was a huge innovation Brawl introduced, it just needs a few improvements!

[NoNameAtAll]

You're right, actually. Ike deserves better. :3

Oh you did not just go there...Ike isn't worthy of bearing Lord Sigurd's Holy Knight attire.

So classy.

[Ninian]

Surely an axe texture wouldn't cost too much space. I could see it used as a slam attack like old Shield Breaker and Flare Blade. Speaking of which, I think Marth's neutral specials will be:

Shield Breaker (normal)

Shield Rush (long forward attack with lower power)

Shield Crusher (Old/Project M neutral special)

[Anacybele]

Oh you did not just go there...Ike isn't worthy of bearing Lord Sigurd's Holy Knight attire.

So classy.

I was partly just messing around, you know. Sigurd seems cool in his own ways. lol

But I was also trying to say that Ike doesn't need any fancy getup like that to look good! :P He's sexy in his ragged and old mercenary outfits. lol and his Vanguard armor is more awesome than anything in the series, imo.

[NoNameAtAll]

I was partly just messing around, you know. Sigurd seems cool in his own ways. lol

But I was also trying to say that Ike doesn't need any fancy getup like that to look good! :P He's sexy in his ragged and old mercenary outfits. lol and his Vanguard armor is more awesome than anything in the series, imo.

I was /completely/ messing around, hence the awesome face at the end.

Yeah, I don't like Ike and all that, but even I'd find it weird for him to wear anything outside of the more casual attire.

[shadowofchaos]

Oh you did not just go there...Ike isn't worthy of bearing Lord Sigurd's Holy Knight attire.

*ZIGLUDO

Edited July 2, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Jedi]

If Ike gets an alt I hope its his Lord look even if he is based on RD in smash 4 his Lord look is his coolest look imo.

Marth I dno maybe Leif?

Mario can get one of his various series power ups

Luigi. Mr L or a power up similar to Mario

Peach can grab her fire peach or Sunshine attire or biker gear

Rosalina biker attire

Bowser can get Dry Bowser

Dk can get his boxing stuff from Punch Out Wii

Diddy Kong can I have no idea

Olimar can get one of the other captains

Link (Zora armor or Fierce Deity pleaaaase)

Toon Link (outset new game plus gear)

Zelda skyward sword or hyrule warriors attire

Ganondorf OoT look or a look based more on Ganon

Pit dark Pit with a voice change unless the Dark Pit at the end of Palutenas vid was a hint he has a different purpose

Palutena. Pseudo Palutena

Wario. His Biker stuff works as is

Yoshi ERM.. Yarn Yoshiers?

Samus. Fusion, Light, Dark suits or others

Zero Suit Samus. Justin Bailey cheat, her various other designs

Sonic snowboarding gear, Sonic Riders goggles, Metal Sonic.

Megaman Protoman, Bass

Game & Watch. Fireman

Pacman. Erm I dno

All the Pokémon. Shiny colors

I'm missing some I think but those are the ideas that come to my head at the moment.

[Galestorm1233]

After playing a friend's Project M with a custom Skyward Sword Zelda with an orange Nayru's Love, I realize I need Skyward Sword Zelda in Smash 4. Make it happen, Sakurai (and please buff her)

I completely agree with you, I want Skyward Sword Zelda, she is awesome.

[Jester Capri]

Samus. Fusion, Light, Dark suits or others

Zero Suit Samus. Justin Bailey cheat, her various other designs

Too bad Dark Samus isn't playable. That moveset shown in that trailer would have been playable-character-worthy. I haven't played Metroid Prime, but damn their armor designs are pretty bizarre.

I strongly agree on the Justin Bailey cheat alternate costume. Sure, ponytails are hot, but I still kinda like Samus with her hair flowing freely, though I want them to have an option to toggle between ponytail and free-flowing hair.

[BANRYU]

I can actually see Skyward Sword Zelda happening if Biker Wario / Male WFT / Pink Jacket Mac (assuming he fits into the same category, but as previously stated, I think it might be too soon to assume this) are a thing, especially given that they opted to go with the characters' Twilight Princess look.

And I'd love to see some of Samus' other suits that differ from the basic Varia look, that'd be pretty sweet. At the very least, if the Fusion suit is a palette swap again and not an extra outfit or something, I think we can anticipate more detail in recreating it (not that the Brawl Fusion Suit wasn't already pretty detailed).

I don't really think too many other characters NEED this treatment, though. Zelda, Samus, Mario (as Dr. Mario) and MAAAYBE Bowser are the only characters who immediately come to mind that particularly warrant it.

BANRYU, can you take over? I Facepalmed so hard I have a fractured skull. =[

Sorry, but the half-page of arguing over Ana's personal definition of a 'palette swap' is exactly why I chose to avoid that particular discussion. o3o You know what I meant and I know what I meant (and I think so did most other people), so that's good enough for me.

Incidentally, we've seen the precedent of 'not-a-palette-swap' (by Ana's definition) as alternate colors for characters in Brawl before:

Thus, my conclusion that Wireframe Mac and SwS Zelda are just alternate colors.

Pink-Jacket Mac may be a different story, and I'm curious to see just what that means for him. The way Sakurai talks about it makes me think that it's going to be a stand-alone extra costume, rather than a set of extra costumes like Biker Wario

Edited July 2, 2014 by BANRYU

[Samias]

I just realized something. I think Mac got the pink sweatsuit as an alternate costume because he already has it in game; he normally takes it off when the match starts. So simply having a costume where he keeps it on made sense if the work was done for that pink sweatsuit to exist. This could just be a polygon upscale so it looks better than it does in the brief moment where he has it on during his regular intro.

Still, with the alternate looks for WFT and Villager I still want to believe that a chunk of the cast will have some representation of their other iconic looks. I'm not holding my breath for TP Link's Zora Suit/Magic Armor or all of Ike's different looks or even Lucina-Marth, but I wouldn't mind seeing OoT or Skyward Sword Zelda or Dr. Mario.

[Quintessence]

Better Lucina as a separate character or at least add Masked Marth as an alternate for Marth.

edit: although Masked Marth makes more sense on Lucina than Marh but who knows.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Quintessence

[Jave]

I would accept Chrom if he were playable, but if given the chance I'll take any Lord/Main character over him because Chrom is just the most obvious choice for the 3rd FE rep.

Heck, he might be the most obvious newcomer period.

[Jotari]

Oh, I'd love to see Ike use an axe too! But it probably won't happen since the only characters that will get completely different specials are Palutena and Miis. But I guess sometime in the future, Sakurai could reach his inner troll again and go "Oh, I lied. Other characters have a couple different specials too!" :P

As for the stage builder, it would be really stupid NOT for it to return. It was a huge innovation Brawl introduced, it just needs a few improvements!

I said in this thread already but I don`t think we can take that claim too seriously. Characters like Olimar simply cant have variations on their moves because they`re already too simple. And one of the few "variations" we have seen so far, Donkey Kong`s Tornado Punch is incredably different to his standard attack. The only similarity being that they are punches. Ike could easily have an Axe as a neutral B or Side B, so long as he`s still standing still or charging forward then it`s a "variation" so far as I can see. I also really hope he gets his Ragnell Sword Beam as an alternate neutral special. Having a projectile on Ike would be sweet.