SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Anacybele]

High mid, I hope. I want him to get higher than he was in Brawl. I don't need him to be top tier or anything, just not anything completely middle road or lower.

[N7隊長ジョン]

I need to test Link out and DK to see if anything's changed.

[Anacybele]

I'm going to test Luigi too to see if anything on him might've been missed. It doesn't seem like many people play him, so yeah. Some differences on him might've been overlooked.

[Jave]

Looks like Ike did get a nerf. Some are reporting he can no longer do a sliding counter.

[Anacybele]

Aw... Well, as long as he has a few more buffs than nerfs, I suppose.

[Jedi]

I don't use Counter much as Ike anyway, sliding with it is kind of eh anyways.

[Djing]

Sheik and Greninja got nerfed hard. ZSS gets away with buffs.

Nintendo confirmed racist against ninjas.

[Jedi]

Sheik and Greninja got nerfed hard. ZSS gets away with buffs.

Nintendo confirmed racist against ninjas.

How'd they get nerfed? I haven't had a chance to update yet

Edited November 18, 2014 by Jedi

[Mighty Kamina]

How'd they get nerfed? I haven't had a chance to update yet

Greninja can't cancel his landing lag from aerial attacks with his Side-B anymore, which seems to be a pretty big thing for Greninja mains. Sheik has less kill power on a few of her moves.

EDIT: Also Greninja can't cancel the end lag of his Up Smash anymore.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Monado Boy

[Jedi]

Greninja can't cancel his landing lag from aerial attacks with his Side-B anymore, which seems to be a pretty big thing for Greninja mains. Sheik has less kill power on a few of her moves.

Ouch. I don't really use either much, but thats pretty brutal in terms of Shiek too.

Her losing kill power is what hurt her most in Brawl

[Mighty Kamina]

Ouch. I don't really use either much, but thats pretty brutal in terms of Shiek too.

Her losing kill power is what hurt her most in Brawl

Just double checked Smash Boards, and Sheik's Down-B and U-Air kill a fair bit later than before.

[Djing]

Greninja can't cancel his landing lag from aerial attacks with his Side-B anymore, which seems to be a pretty big thing for Greninja mains. Sheik has less kill power on a few of her moves.

EDIT: Also Greninja can't cancel the end lag of his Up Smash anymore.

I also heard his Up B lost the wind box. Which is catastrophic.

Up Smash seemed genuinely extremely powerful, so I can understand why it got nerfed.

The Side-B cancel seems fine. I never liked that technique anyways.

[Florete]

- Down throw launch angle changed slightly; the opponent is now launched less horizontally and at lower percents a little bit lower.

- Same change for down tilt; the opponent is now launched less horizontally and at lower percents a little bit lower.

Why are these listed as minus? They sound like neutral at worst, plus at best, since it sounds like they're easier to combo out of, especially the first one, since I already combo down throw into up b for kills.

[DreadFighter]

With Bowsercide(Side B), Kirbycide(Normal B), and Dededecide(Normal B), the one committing it loses their stock first. Only Ganon's Side B has the opponent lose their stock first.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Captain Falchion

[Mighty Kamina]

With Bowsercide(Side B), Kirbycide(Normal B), and Dededecide(Normal B), the one committing it loses their stock first. Only Ganon's Side B has the opponent lose their stock first.

This bothers me. Bowsercide was hardly an issue, and it makes no sense for Bowser to lose his stock first when he is above his opponent.

[Florete]

Apparently Rosalina got nerfed hard, ouch.

Nerfs and a few buffs

- Nair damage reduced by 3%, knockback decreased killing Zelda at 170% from 140%.

- Luma respawn time ~13s from ~8s

- Luma recall speed greatly increased

Rosa stuff: (Tested mostly by me, write up courtesy of Xaltis)

Rosalina:

Upsmash knockback decreased

Dtilt hitbox reduced

Nair damage got a slight nerf in percent it does.

Grab got a cooldown increase

Down Smash cooldown increase

Forward Smash Slight start up Increase? (We couldn't get a 100% for sure answer on this)

Nair knockback is decreased

Luma:

Shoots a shorter distance with fully charge Luma shot. (Which is better)

Comes back faster when you call him back.

Luma shot got cooldown decrease.

Can still break grabs.

Doesn't do anything that the Wii U help tip says about him.

On stages with walls that go all the way down. (Yoshi's Island Brawl, and other Omegas) if Luma doesn't make it back to the stage with his 3 jumps, he will fall to his death, but on stages with these walls instead of dying, he glitches back to the middle of the stage.

Luma Shot goes roughly 2/3 the distance when uncharged. No change at max charge. Luma Warp and Power Luma Shot also unchanged AFAIK. (Direct comparison by myself between 1.0.3 and 1.0.4.)

Rosalina's up smash has different knockback, either less in general or simply at a different angle. Direct comparison done by @sonicbrawler182, the post in question.

Nair has two hitboxes; the final one at the end of the arc did 10%, nerfed to 7%, but otherwise it did 6%, now nerfed to 5%. Knockback on nair was also reduced in general, although this could be construed as a buff since it allows for followups at low %.

Luma can attack while Rosalina is being pummeled, but it cannot attack while a throw animation is in progress. This includes command grabs like Kirby's Inhale and Captain Falcon's Falcon Dive. (If someone with 2 systems could test Bowser's Flying Press, Ganondorf's Flame Choke, and DK's cargo hold that would be swell.)

[Chloe Neo]

The nerf is apparent on Rosalina, she is just not meant to be a brawler.

[Anacybele]

Well, wasn't Rosalina very close to being another Brawl Meta Knight? xP

Also, I AM indeed noticing more changes with Luigi, I think.

+ Super Jump Punch goes a little higher now, but not quite as high as in Brawl still. But this is good, because the move leaves him helpless, yet it needs to give him enough height to serve as a reliable recovery move.

+ I think he jumps even HIGHER now too. o.o

+ F-smash does indeed seem stronger

+ Green Missile has less charge time

+ Green Missile also cancels out quicker (ie, Luigi tires out faster from charging it)

+ Dash attack has more knockback

These are just guesses though, this is the first time I've picked up the game in like a week or so. I need other people to confirm this. xP

Edited November 18, 2014 by Anacybele

[Samias]

Peach and Toon Link apparently didn't really get any changes... but they still both got nerfed hard because you can no longer cancel animations with projectiles, either during the pull or to cancel endlag on aerials and other projectiles by releasing the item. Link has the same nerf but got a lot of changes to make up for the technique loss.

Lots of bugfixes overall. Jigglypuff can't do an instant turnaround rollout, Villager can't blow people up with gyroids on the ledge, Marth/Lucina won't get pushed into the blast zone with counter off ledge, Wario lost wectoring, Yoshi's giant glitches and teleports are gone, etc. Some are still in, like all the weirdness of Corneria, but oh well.

[Ema Skye]

Rosalina was the obvious candidate for SSB4's Meta Knight and so I feel the nerfs are warranted, even as a Rosalina main. But I'm not looking forward to killing with her as that was already something I struggled with her.

But it sounds like my two favorite kill moves of her's, being Jab and UAir, are still the same so that much is good for me.

My other main, Palutena, is pretty unchanged but I've been told her down air (her worst aerial) is faster now so that makes me happy.

[Sasori]

I like the fact that Nintendo is willing to patch stuff and all, but am I the only one who thinks they should have made the entire process go smoother? You get the chance to update automatically with Mario Kart 8, but here you have to go to the Eshop and I had some trouble actually finding the update. I needed to use the search function to find it.

[Anacybele]

Strange, I didn't have any trouble. When I clicked on the game, it prompted me to go to the eShop and led me to the update just like that.

[Dai]

Strange, I didn't have any trouble. When I clicked on the game, it prompted me to go to the eShop and led me to the update just like that.

Ditto on that one.

Anyone know if Robin's been changed up? (Read that Zero Suit Samus can't infinite footstool Robin anymore.)

Edited November 19, 2014 by Dai

[Kiseki]

From Smashboards: (SOME OF THESE NEED TO BE 100% CONFIRMED)

Ike:

+ SH Fair now autocancels. Startup is also much faster.

+ Bair does 1% more damage, slight increase in knockback(?)

+ Nair has reduced knockback allowing for more opportunities for followups.

+ Dtilt trajectory is upwards now, less recovery, does 1% more damage.

+ Ftilt recovers slightly faster.

+ Dsmash trajectory is slightly more horizontal.

+ Jab now works as intended, including comboing properly on Greninja. Does not combo properly on Yoshi still. :/

Shulk:

+ Most of Shulk's moves gained a +1% increase or more to his base damages

+ MArts's damages are increased as well

Kirby

+ Feet-based attacks have a longer range

+ U-Smash is significantly faster, has a sour-spot that allows the move to reach farther

+ U-Air is much faster, has reduced landing lag, hitbox extended to hit BEHIND Kirby now.

+ Dash speed is increased

Marth's f-throw and d-throw are combo throws now.

Ganon is now the only character who can 'cide successully.

frick yes.

Kirby

- Increased landing lag on N-Air, F-Air

- D-Air -> sourspotted U-Tilt no longer a combo (normal U-Tilt still is)

- Kirbycide KOs Kirby first now

Zero Suit Samus:

+ Fsmash is now faster to recover and thus safer on block. By how much I'm not sure.

+ Close range down smash is better on block. By how much I'm not sure, though in testing it seems I can jab before the opponent can drop shield (like brawl).

pls no.

I'm assuming ZSS's buffs were only there to make her what she was originally intended to be.

I'm in the process of recording old replays for a moment compilation, so I won't be getting the update anytime soon until then.

[Generic General]

Actually, I have yet to test out the Marth changes yet, so scratch that.

All "testing" should be two games side-by-side comparison, otherwise it might be placebo effect, just saying.