SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[amadeuscho]

.... I'm just gonna be that guy that says "hey, instead of questioning who's gonna be cut, why don't we just cross our fingers and pray that what happened with the melee five DOESN"T happen again?"

pick a god and pray.

I find roster discussions fun and I think cuts/lack of returns are naturally part of the conversation. All things considered, the melee 5 could have been much worse. We had three clones cut and two generational characters. With the generational characters, neither of their franchises lost ground.

Ike has roughly the same shot as the other Pokemon like Lucario. Ike being a main protagonist is very similar to the "it" Pokemon of generations (Mewtwo, Lucario, Zoroark, etc). The Pokemon characters chances are lower than Ike's due to Sakurai's selection method, but Ike is by no means safe.

Chrom won't necessarily be an in-between character; that's just the consensus spread around by fans. Chrom should just have a different playstyle than Ike and Marth. And Chrom is not necessarily a shoo-in for the Awakening rep, as Lucina and the Tactician (Robin) are also viable choices.

[Diddy Kong]

Mewtwo is less of a generational character than other Melee characters that still made it in Brawl *couch*Sheik*cough*

[amadeuscho]

Mewtwo is less of a generational character than other Melee characters that still made it in Brawl *couch*Sheik*cough*

Sheik is connected to Zelda's moveset (and technically is Zelda), so she's not really a generational character. Although she is her own character (and Sakurai considers her as such), she would never make it in as a solo character. It's more like Brawl Zelda is an amalgamation of OoT Zelda and TP Zelda, as all her moves are still based of OoT magic.

Virtually all pokemon are generational characters aside from Pikachu, who is the series' mascot.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Viewtiful_J

[Refa]

Then why have they brought Jigglypuff time and time again?

[amadeuscho]

Then why have they brought Jigglypuff time and time again?

Just because they are generational doesn't mean they need to be cut. But Jigglypuff was very low priority in Brawl's code. Melee had no roster cuts.

They just aren't safe.

[Randoman]

Since X and Shulk was mentioned, I'm wanting to ask those familiar with Xenoblade and X since I'm not familiar with it: Is X officially announced to be a sequel to Xenoblade? I'm wanting to know since it correlates to Shulk's chances quite a bit.

As for Ike and Lucario's chances, I can see it going either way. Though ultimately, it'll likely be up to IS and Game Freak since Nintendo said themselves that for subsidaries, character negotiation can be really tricky, especially with Pokemon (though Lucario's current hype and there being no major 6th Gen mascot like Lucario or Zoroark probably makes him safe).

Luigi was to obviously hype up the year of Luigi and Dream Team, Peach was to celebrate Mario 1 coming out 28 years prior on the same day.

While I'd like to see newcomers, veterans are never a sore sight. We may as well get them out of the way asap and in the coolest ways [promotion and celebration] though.

I'm really glad they decided to reveal Luigi, even though he's likely still a secret character. I mean, since Captain Falcon and Ness were starters in Melee and got shown off a lot before Melee's release, it didn't really seem fair that Luigi and Jigglypuff (never mind her actually, since I'm quite neutral on her inclusion) never got that same kind of attention, especially when all four of them are in the "secret perfect attendees" category and Luigi's the biggest and most recognizable Nintendo character right after Mario. In general, I'm really happy that Nintendo decided to give Luigi his own year and give him a lot more of the spotlight, since I was sick of seeing Luigi get shafted a lot in games.

I never actually realized the significance of Peach's reveal date (one day before Super Mario Bros.' release). Sharp observation there, Jedi.

I agree. Also, since SSB4 won't be as newcomer heavy as the past two games (especially if the Little Mac, Mii, and Pac-Man rumour is true), it'd be quite the waste of hype to reveal newcomers during months that aren't E3 or close to SSB4's release. Though a newcomer reveal for December as a Christmas gift would be nice...

[amadeuscho]

Since X and Shulk was mentioned, I'm wanting to ask those familiar with Xenoblade and X since I'm not familiar with it: Is X officially announced to be a sequel to Xenoblade? I'm wanting to know since it correlates to Shulk's chances quite a bit.

As for Ike and Lucario's chances, I can see it going either way. Though ultimately, it'll likely be up to IS and Game Freak since Nintendo said themselves that for subsidaries, character negotiation can be really tricky, especially with Pokemon (though Lucario's current hype and there being no major 6th Gen mascot like Lucario or Zoroark probably makes him safe).

I'm really glad they decided to reveal Luigi, even though he's likely still a secret character. I mean, since Captain Falcon and Ness were starters in Melee and got shown off a lot before Melee's release, it didn't really seem fair that Luigi and Jigglypuff (never mind her actually, since I'm quite neutral on her inclusion) never got that same kind of attention, especially when all four of them are in the "secret perfect attendees" category and Luigi's the biggest and most recognizable Nintendo character right after Mario. In general, I'm really happy that Nintendo decided to give Luigi his own year and give him a lot more of the spotlight, since I was sick of seeing Luigi get shafted a lot in games.

I never actually realized the significance of Peach's reveal date (one day before Super Mario Bros.' release). Sharp observation there, Jedi.

I agree. Also, since SSB4 won't be as newcomer heavy as the past two games (especially if the Little Mac, Mii, and Pac-Man rumour is true), it'd be quite the waste of hype to reveal newcomers during months that aren't E3 or close to SSB4's release. Though a newcomer reveal for December as a Christmas gift would be nice...

It's directed by Tetsuya Takashi, who has directed every Xeno RPG (Xenogears, Xenosaga, and Xenoblade). It's not official announced, but it's widely speculated. So I don't think it helps Shulk's chances yet. What helps Shulk most is the dearth of new and successful franchises on the wii. I think they are holding off to build hype. I do think it will at least have Xeno in it's name.

My attitude is to think of most characters that can be at risk as not safe. It makes it easier if ever they aren't included for some reason. There's so much uncertainty to cutting characters that most of our reasoning behind what make characters "safe" is guess work. Gen 6th hasn't even been released yet, although it does seem Mewtwo is the mascot with X and Y forms.

[Refa]

and Luigi's the biggest and most recognizable Nintendo character right after Mario.

I don't buy this, unless you're going to be like WELL HE'S A PALLETE SWAP OF MARIO AND EVERYONE RECOGNIZES MARIO SO THEY MUST RECOGNIZE LUIGI.

[Jedi]

I agree. Also, since SSB4 won't be as newcomer heavy as the past two games (especially if the Little Mac, Mii, and Pac-Man rumour is true), it'd be quite the waste of hype to reveal newcomers during months that aren't E3 or close to SSB4's release. Though a newcomer reveal for December as a Christmas gift would be nice...

I feel we'll still get a decent amount of newcomers, maybe not as many as brawls of course but still a fair amount.

I honestly hope Mii isn't a fighter. Kinda defeats the point of smash bros if you play as yourself [i know Villager techically is but Animal Crossing is different then just an avatar of sorts]

And I'd honestly say Link is the 2nd most recognizable of Nintendo's characters maybe even Pikachu these days considering how long the Pokemon anime has been going and the craze pokemon started

Edited September 16, 2013 by Jedi

[amadeuscho]

Mario and Luigi are tied to hip, like Ryu and Ken. Link is well known to all gamers, less to the larger world. Pikachu is probably at the same level or close to Mario and Luigi.

[Anacybele]

In general, I'm really happy that Nintendo decided to give Luigi his own year and give him a lot more of the spotlight, since I was sick of seeing Luigi get shafted a lot in games.

I agree completely with this. It always seemed to me like Nintendo cared less about Luigi than the fans did! But I've always loved Luigi and waited patiently for the day he got all this attention. :3

As for Ike, I'm not saying I don't want him in. I really want him to stay sooo bad. I'm a rabid Ike fangirl and always will be, I love him to death. I just find him a bit shaky because Japan doesn't like him and Awakening was successful. But I still think his chances are pretty good, don't get me wrong!

[Jedi]

I agree completely with this. It always seemed to me like Nintendo cared less about Luigi than the fans did! But I've always loved Luigi and waited patiently for the day he got all this attention. :3

As for Ike, I'm not saying I don't want him in. I really want him to stay sooo bad. I'm a rabid Ike fangirl and always will be, I love him to death. I just find him a bit shaky because Japan doesn't like him and Awakening was successful. But I still think his chances are pretty good, don't get me wrong!

Ike has a unique style going for him as well as a pretty big fanbase. He has a good shot at a return.

I used him quite a bit in brawl and he is my 2nd favorite FE Lord so I hope he returns.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Jedi

[Randoman]

It's directed by Tetsuya Takashi, who has directed every Xeno RPG (Xenogears, Xenosaga, and Xenoblade). It's not official announced, but it's widely speculated. So I don't think it helps Shulk's chances yet. What helps Shulk most is the dearth of new and successful franchises on the wii. I think they are holding off to build hype. I do think it will at least have Xeno in it's name.

My attitude is to think of most characters that can be at risk as not safe. It makes it easier if ever they aren't included for some reason. There's so much uncertainty to cutting characters that most of our reasoning behind what make characters "safe" is guess work. Gen 6th hasn't even been released yet, although it does seem Mewtwo is the mascot with X and Y forms.

Ah, alright. Xenogears and Xenosaga are connected (in terms of being a sequel/prequel series or in the same universe), right? If X and Xenoblade are connected in a similar manner, then that should help Shulk's chances of being in.

Well, among the main four I use (Marth, Ice Climbers, Mario, and Luigi) two are already confirmed and the other two are very safe, so I'm not too worried about characters getting cut. I even learned Donkey Kong and Yoshi in case of worst case scenarios where I'm only stuck with the original 8. And regarding Mewtwo's forms, there was an article where Sakurai said in regards to fan questions about Mewtwo's new forms being in, that he didn't know people wanted them in, and he said he'd try his best in regards to their requests. If only I could find the gonintendo article where he said that...

I don't buy this, unless you're going to be like WELL HE'S A PALLETE SWAP OF MARIO AND EVERYONE RECOGNIZES MARIO SO THEY MUST RECOGNIZE LUIGI.

I feel we'll still get a decent amount of newcomers, maybe not as many as brawls of course but still a fair amount.

I honestly hope Mii isn't a fighter. Kinda defeats the point of smash bros if you play as yourself [i know Villager techically is but Animal Crossing is different then just an avatar of sorts]

And I'd honestly say Link is the 2nd most recognizable of Nintendo's characters maybe even Pikachu these days considering how long the Pokemon anime has been going and the craze pokemon started

How many newcomers are you personally guessing will be in? I'm guessing 6-10.

I don't want Miis in either as playable characters, and I also agree with the AC villager being okay as a fighter. Miis in general are too indeterminate of characters and aren't anchored to any game series like most characters (I mean, they show up in a lot of places whether it's Wii series, Mario games, Sonic games, etc.), so they really wouldn't feel right in a game full of established characters (at least the Villager has the brown haired boy look that's been reoccuring and practically iconic to AC advertising and promotion).

Well in terms of being known and recognized worldwide by gamers and non-gamers alike, I'd say Luigi is still up there at least in the top 5. I'll admit that Pikachu may beat out Luigi in terms of being known and recognized worldwide (though IMO Luigi being synonymous with Mario and the long legacy that Luigi and the Mario series had since the 1980s would make Luigi more recognizable), but not Link, especially since the Zelda series is hardly as prominent or well known as Mario or Pokemon (it's really popular, but not as much as those two), and quite a lot of people still think the guy in the green elf hat and outfit is named Zelda and don't know his real name.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Randoman

[Anacybele]

Ike has a unique style going for him as well as a pretty big fanbase. He has a good shot at a return.

I used him quite a bit in brawl and he is my 2nd favorite FE Lord so I hope he returns.

Yeah, I totally agree. But it still annoys me when people say he's going to be cut just because Roy was. >.>

[amadeuscho]

Ah, alright. Xenogears and Xenosaga are connected (in terms of being a sequel/prequel series or in the same universe), right? If X and Xenoblade are connected in a similar manner, then that should help Shulk's chances of being in.

How many newcomers are you personally guessing will be in? I'm guessing 6-10.

No, they aren't technically connected. Square own Xenogears, while Xenosaga is owned by Namco. But according to Takahashi (on Xenosaga):

"It's probably more suitable to say that it follows the direction and style of Xenogears. […] Now that we are under a different company, we figured we should start everything from scratch all over again. Though there are familiar faces that serve as important characters in Xenosaga, others are more like self-parodies, so we don't really want Xenogears fans to overreact. Like movies, sometimes you have the director of the movie or friend of the leading actor appearing as cameos, so it's similar to that."

However, it is very likely that X and Xenoblade are connected in someway, since they have the same director, development team, and similar style. The main reason for the Xenogears and Xenosaga split (as well as Xenoblade in a way) is the split from Square for Monolith Soft team, and then Nintendo's buyout of the developer.

I think it helps Shulk chances in this way. A) Monolith Soft's new RPG's push from Nintendo acknowledges the success of Xenoblade, and thus making it one of the premiere new IPs from the last generation: B) If it is a continuation, it helps put in Xenoblade from being just a game and turns it into a franchise.

I'm guessing 8 to 10. Also expecting 3 to 5 cuts.

[Jedi]

Yeah, I totally agree. But it still annoys me when people say he's going to be cut just because Roy was. >.>

Funny thing is that Roy being replaced or cut is kind of false in a way too, so there is no way this is tradition. Roy was one of the forbidden 7 who were planned for brawl but due to time constraints weren't

These 7 were

Roy

Mewtwo

Dr. Mario

Dixie

Toon Zelda

Toon Shiek

"Pra_Mia" (Most commonly believed to be Plusle/Minun)

Edited September 16, 2013 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

Funny thing is that Roy being replaced or cut is kind of false in a way too, so there is no way this is tradition. Roy was one of the forbidden 7 who were planned for brawl but due to time constraints weren't

These 7 were

Roy

Mewtwo

Dr. Mario

Dixie

Toon Zelda

Toon Shiek

"Pra_Mia" (Most commonly believed to be Plusle/Minun)

Yeah, this too. Roy wasn't even technically replaced because he was planned to be in Brawl.

[Jave]

I don't want either to be cut, but if only one of Ike or Lucario returns, I say Lucario has the bigger chance. He's incredibly popular, still used heavily in advertising, still very relevant to his series by giving him a Mega Evolution, not to mention being one of the "coolest" Pokemon in kids' heads.

Ike, on the other hand, hasn't been relevant since Radiant Dawn which predates Brawl.

[Diddy Kong]

Ike is quite relevant to the series as a whole though. First 3D Lord, only Lord to be a main character in 2 games, Priam, and DLC character. He's also called 'the strongest warrior of all time' in Awakening from what I've seen. So if IS has to choose, I think they'll opt for Ike to stay.

And yes, the Mii is an evil abomination which never should be playable.

[Jave]

As I said, I don't want Ike removed, but since Sakurai said he hopes to bring everyone back, I'm guessing he has a priority list similar to what he had in Brawl. What I'm saying is that in his priority list for Smash 4, Ike is probably on a lower level than Lucario.

[Vashiane]

As I said, I don't want Ike removed, but since Sakurai said he hopes to bring everyone back, I'm guessing he has a priority list similar to what he had in Brawl. What I'm saying is that in his priority list for Smash 4, Ike is probably on a lower level than Lucario.

I personally don't either, but if we are getting Chrom, I'd like a little variety, because two blue-haired sword wielders is one thing and three is something entirely different. Plus, the fire moves in Ike's Brawl moveset didn't actually fit him. I think Ike actually got some remnants of Roy's moveset there, so if I had to pick out of Ike and Roy, I'd pick Roy simply because of all they could do with him.

That and Hector's not an option. [/flips table]

[Anacybele]

But Ike still has more uniqueness going for him. He's the only heavyweight sword wielder so far and he can potentially get a ranged attack if they give him Ragnell's shockwave this time. (grrr, overpowered my butt. They could've dumbed it down like they did with Aether!)

Plus, like Diddy Kong said, Ike has the most relevance in the series except for Marth. He's the mightiest hero in the series, stars in two games, is the first and only 3D home console lord, etc. Also, with the Wii U version of SSB getting more home console stages, that's a reason right there to use Tellius stages for FE and that gives more reason to keep Ike.

[Vicious Sal]

But Ike still has more uniqueness going for him. He's the only heavyweight sword wielder so far and he can potentially get a ranged attack if they give him Ragnell's shockwave this time. (grrr, overpowered my butt. They could've dumbed it down like they did with Aether!)

Plus, like Diddy Kong said, Ike has the most relevance in the series except for Marth. He's the mightiest hero in the series, stars in two games, is the first and only 3D home console lord, etc. Also, with the Wii U version of SSB getting more home console stages, that's a reason right there to use Tellius stages for FE and that gives more reason to keep Ike.

Sorry to disappoint, but uniqueness isn't in Ike's favor. How many pokemon can you name that are as relevant as lucario that can pull off the aura gimmick brawl introduced? Lucario in ssb has a unique thing going for him that isn't easily replaced by any other unit. And uniqueness scores points on sakurais list.

Lucario has aura, only mewtwo comes somewhat colse since he had the sphere attack, but not the more powerful the more damage I have idea. Lucario his entire moveset is based around aura.

Ike has a sword. Metaknight has a sword, marth has a sword, link has a sword, etc etc all different playstyles, no doubt, but a swordsman is still a swordsman. And someone like Magnus from kid icarus could easily replace him. Not saying i want that though.

[Jedi]

Sorry to disappoint, but uniqueness isn't in Ike's favor. How many pokemon can you name that are as relevant as lucario that can pull off the aura gimmick brawl introduced? Lucario in ssb has a unique thing going for him that isn't easily replaced by any other unit. And uniqueness scores points on sakurais list.

Lucario has aura, only mewtwo comes somewhat colse since he had the sphere attack, but not the more powerful the more damage I have idea. Lucario his entire moveset is based around aura.

Ike has a sword. Metaknight has a sword, marth has a sword, link has a sword, etc etc all different playstyles, no doubt, but a swordsman is still a swordsman. And someone like Magnus from kid icarus could easily replace him. Not saying i want that though.

If you honestly think Magnus has more priority then Palutena in Kid Icarus character choice.. Lol just lol.

Yes Lucario has the aura gimmick, no doubt it makes him stick out you are right. How on earth that effects Ike's chances is beyond me however, Sakurai doesn't just say OH THIS CHARACTER HAS THIS, WE DON'T NEED THIS "TOTALLY UNCONNECTED CHARACTER"

A unique playstyle is just as good as having a unique gimmick sorry to disappoint YOU now, the way you implied it seems to make me think you'd be against Shulk and Isaac even though they have their various abilities along with their blades as well.

Future Sights/Monado abilities for Shulk and Isaac's Psynergy based Earth Magic

Picture of the day on the 3DS

Edited September 16, 2013 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

Jedi spoke my thoughts exactly.