SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[CyborgZeta]

Don't know if you guys heard yet so I'll spoiler it.

Llyod fans I don't know how you feel about this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RohSrr4MO9A

I'm surprised Lloyd got acknowledged at all, honestly. I think it's fine.

[Gemma]

I'm surprised Lloyd got acknowledged at all, honestly. I think it's fine.

I feel the same way.

Lloyd has always been a dream character of mine. Experiencing Tales of Symphonia on the Gamecube was one of the most epic experiences on a Nintendo console for me, I'm sure many others feel the same way. It's cool that they're paying homage to this sentiment.

I mean, it would be totally awesome if he was an actual character, (though I suppose it's not fair to rule out the chance) but this is still really cool~

[Jedi]

Eyup. Tier lists, especially this early on, are reliable for one thing and one thing only: information on what other people are playing.

As Rfof said its based on who is winning.

Especially in tournaments.

[Anacybele]

JUST on who is winning? But that seems kind of unfair. Some people are more skilled than others, regardless of what character is used. A Rosalina player could get beat by a skilled Zelda player, I'm sure. Also, it doesn't explain Luigi's high placement in the tier list when he seems to be used by hardly anyone (poor guy...).

Edited July 30, 2015 by Anacybele

[Jotari]

JUST on who is winning? But that seems kind of unfair. Some people are more skilled than others, regardless of what character is used. A Rosalina player could get beat by a skilled Zelda player, I'm sure. Also, it doesn't explain Luigi's high placement in the tier list when he seems to be used by hardly anyone (poor guy...).

Well presumably the 'winners' are winning with those particular characters because they've tried out the entire roster and have found the ones that work for their strategies, which since they win the tournaments are objectively the best. Sure a skilled Zelda player could beat a Rosalina but the skilled players aren't picking Zelda because they can't beat skilled Rosalinas. Of course the natural trap occurs when people automatically start viewing characters as high tier because they are the preference of high tier players meaning many other characters don't get used at all.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Jotari

[Jedi]

JUST on who is winning? But that seems kind of unfair. Some people are more skilled than others, regardless of what character is used. A Rosalina player could get beat by a skilled Zelda player, I'm sure. Also, it doesn't explain Luigi's high placement in the tier list when he seems to be used by hardly anyone (poor guy...).

High placements are also used, also yes player skill is a factor, but in a tournament setting, that bar is usually pretty high.

[Florete]

JUST on who is winning? But that seems kind of unfair. Some people are more skilled than others, regardless of what character is used. A Rosalina player could get beat by a skilled Zelda player, I'm sure. Also, it doesn't explain Luigi's high placement in the tier list when he seems to be used by hardly anyone (poor guy...).

One Zelda player beating one Rosalina player doesn't mean much in the grand scheme. The fact is that Rosalina gets players much further in tournaments than Zelda does on average. That's how it works. Western tier lists also have some theory and potential mixed in (which is why Rosalina is as high as she is despite not many players actually using her), but results are typically the bottom line. Sheik? Diddy? Rosalina? Luigi? Zero Suit Samus? Characters who are commonly used to win tournaments and/or get high placements. Thus, they are ranked high on the tier lists.

You must not watch tournaments, because Luigi is a pretty popular character.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire

[euklyd]

I'm so happy about the costumes. I hate K. Rool with a fiery passion thanks to his worse than Ridley fanboys, and this is the fate he deserves. Flying Man and Chrom look good, and I love EarthBound and Chrom, so that's great, since there's no way they'll get anything better.

I'm so glad that K. Rool is out of the picture. Now my 6 that I want, Squirtle, Bulbasaur/Ivysaur (either works), Shantae, Red/Leaf (Leaf as an alt) Chibi-Robo, and Bandana Dee are that much closer.

In fact, I encourage everyone to vote Chibi-Robo. He is the most deserving with 5 games and yet nothing. He's great and the best candidate. I would legit cry at a Chibi-Robo costume.

"lol ur candidate sucks i hate him with a burning passion literally anyone else would be better. that being said vote for my favorite character plx" <-- generally not a good way of campaigning for votes

that being said your candidates all suck and you should vote for goku instead

As Rfof said its based on who is winning.

Especially in tournaments.

not entirely true, there's still some theory I'm pretty sure

melee fox was top for a long time even when it wasn't fox winning all the majors, but fox was still the best in theory

but yes it's not based on popularity lol, except in that popular characters are more likely to have skilled mains

also petition to take the anti-tier list whack-a-mole game to a dedicated thread

I swear we have this 'discussion' here every two weeks

e: also look at people like Nairo, who are super good at the game

back at apex he played more robin and pit than zss and was good but not great, but now when he's putting in work with zss he's fucking awesome

Edited July 30, 2015 by Euklyd

[Anacybele]

Oh, I see. Yeah, I don't really watch tournaments, though I've seen some videos from them.

[Jave]

The two last Mii costumes have been revealed, one is Samus.

The other is *drumroll*...

The Black Knight.

Yes, Fire Emblem's Black Knight

[Ragnell]

JUST on who is winning? But that seems kind of unfair. Some people are more skilled than others, regardless of what character is used. A Rosalina player could get beat by a skilled Zelda player, I'm sure. Also, it doesn't explain Luigi's high placement in the tier list when he seems to be used by hardly anyone (poor guy...).

A single victory should never inform a tier list, since a tier list is by no means a perfect prediction of actual results. A tier list is supposed to demonstrate the maximum potential of every character; a potential which is rarely, if ever, reached. But as hundreds of players use a character hundreds of times, it eventually becomes clear which characters have advantages over others. Due to this, tourney results are one of the best indicators of which characters are the best in any given game, and the results get more and more accurate over time as more matches are played and players get more skilled. That said, tourney results can still lead to false conclusions. Pros, like all people, tend to bandwagon any character that they have seen get good results. This inflates that character's results, leading to further bandwagoning. There is also always a chance that even a low-tier character has some undiscovered ability or strategy that just has yet to be implemented properly.

Because of these shortcomings, tourney results are not the only factor in a tier list. Since the tier list strives to show a character's fundamental advantages/disadvantages when played at the highest level, a fair amount of hypothetical discussion also informs tier placement. For instance, Shulk is generally recognized as a Mid-High to High tier character despite lackluster tourney results. His flexibility and the options he gets from Monado-canceling just show way too much potential for him to be put down where his tourney results suggest he should be. Ike is similar, to a lesser degree; very few players outside of Ryo (and Ryuga in one tourney) have had success with Ike, but many experienced pros have analyzed the details of Ike's abilities and feel that with the right player he could be reasonably successful. Unfortunately, such speculation is often extremely biased and unreliable, so it is less important than tourney results. But it helps check the inherent biases of just using tourney results for placement.

In the end, tier lists should not be ignored, but no list should be followed like it is infallible (especially less than 1 year after a game releases). Tier lists do not predict individual match outcomes, since many other details factor into a given match, like who is playing, how they are playing, etc.. In fact, tiers should never even be used to compare two characters directly; tiers only compare characters to the cast as a whole. Some characters high on the tier list have one or two bad matchups with mid or low tier characters, but have enough good matchups to maintain their high standing. For example, in Brawl the Ice Climbers had a slight disadvantage against Peach, despite being 6 tiers higher than the princess. Somebody over on Smashboards put it well when they said that a tier list is basically just a matchup chart simplified down to the point of near uselessness. Don't take it too seriously.

[Water Mage]

The two last Mii costumes have been revealed, one is Samus.

The other is *drumroll*...

The Black Knight.

Yes, Fire Emblem's Black Knight

So, the two warriors will finally have a rematch...

And dammit!

Samus was deconfirmed!!

How dare they!!!

Edited July 31, 2015 by Water Mage

[Tsunami922]

So, the two warriors will finally have a rematch...

And dammit!

Samus was deconfirmed!!

How dare they!!!

No! Not Samus! She was my most wanted Metroid character! Wait a minute,

[kingddd]

love the new remix

[Ice Sage]

i like the change they did to robin's downthrow. more comboable now~

[Sentacotus]

Hmm might have to actually get the Chrom and BK costumes. I kinda wonder given the popularity of these characters if Sakurai is finding out through the sales of the costumes which ones are the most popular and is kinda testing the waters. Wishful thinking I guess.

[Tsunami922]

Is there a list for character balance changes?

[Florete]

Is there a list for character balance changes?

Not an official one, but in-progress here: http://smashboards.com/threads/tournament-mode-1-1-0-community-patch-notes.412130/

[Ice Sage]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3f8hvn/the_v110_patch_changelist/

changes so far.

ninja'd

Edited July 31, 2015 by Ice Sage

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

small question, when are these mii outfits going to be released?

[Jedi]

small question, when are these mii outfits going to be released?

Tomorrow I believe, but I could be wrong.

[Florete]

They're available now. The patch is live.

[Jedi]

They're available now. The patch is live.

Kk, I got the patch, but I didn't check the store, silly me lol.

[Tamarsamar]

In the end, tier lists should not be ignored, but no list should be followed like it is infallible (especially less than 1 year after a game releases). Tier lists do not predict individual match outcomes, since many other details factor into a given match, like who is playing, how they are playing, etc.. In fact, tiers should never even be used to compare two characters directly; tiers only compare characters to the cast as a whole. Some characters high on the tier list have one or two bad matchups with mid or low tier characters, but have enough good matchups to maintain their high standing. For example, in Brawl the Ice Climbers had a slight disadvantage against Peach, despite being 6 tiers higher than the princess. Somebody over on Smashboards put it well when they said that a tier list is basically just a matchup chart simplified down to the point of near uselessness. Don't take it too seriously.

Your entire post is completely on point, but this last paragraph in particular essentially expands on my point in the first place:

Tier lists, especially this early on, are reliable for one thing and one thing only: information on what other people are playing.

This being said a tier list should never be used to directly inform you on character choice (especially in a game more balanced than Melee or Brawl could ever hope to be--you can basically play characters you like and do just fine if you know what you are doing), but that being said it is worth doing independent research on your matchups against characters considered to be top-tier, since those are generally what you would be slogging through in the middle of a tournament anyway. If you do happen to play one of those characters, you would admittedly have the luxury of a lot of this research being done for you already, but that is about it.

[Anacybele]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3f8hvn/the_v110_patch_changelist/

changes so far.

ninja'd

Luigi got a SLIGHT damage nerf, but his dtilt can now make people trip? Heh, I think I can dig that. ^^

No changes to Ike though? Good! Better than getting nerfs. :)

It's late here, so I'll update my game tomorrow.