Hardest FE mode (except FE13 Lunatic+)

[darkkfan]

FE10 HM is kinda easy but I find it harder than HHM (except for the cog of doominy)

I guess, I still would personally put it after FE10 after FE7 HHM, FE6, and maybe even some FE11 difficulties.

And I still think that Battle Before Dawn is harder than Cog of Destiny.

[General Horace]

there's no comparison in the difficulty of fe5 that compares to h5, lunatic or lunatic' in FE12, or even FE13 Lunatic, unless you're playing it blind which I doubt is assumed. There's just too much broken stuff and the enemies are just so pathetic at any point past manster to even warrent any kind of difficulty, and then there's warp and rewarp and all that jazz.

Edited June 14, 2013 by General Horace

[Chiki]

You can compare it by asking yourself which one challenged you more. You can even compare, for example, FE13 LM and Metroid.

[General Horace]

You can compare it by asking yourself which one challenged you more. You can even compare, for example, FE13 LM and Metroid.

i feel this comparison doesn't work very well for someone like me anyhow, I find something like FE11 H5 easier than the original Mario Bros. because i'm terrible at platformers.

[darkkfan]

i feel this comparison doesn't work very well for someone like me anyhow, I find something like FE11 H5 easier than the original Mario Bros. because i'm terrible at platformers.

^this

I think we need some more concrete judging criteria and damn those platformers.

[Da Bear]

I would say that FE10 HM is the hardest I've played but that's probably my stubborn refusal to use non-Zihark (and I use him sparingly) pre-promotes in that game making it much harder than it needs to be.

[Chiki]

i feel this comparison doesn't work very well for someone like me anyhow, I find something like FE11 H5 easier than the original Mario Bros. because i'm terrible at platformers.

So do I. It's a personal opinion thread anyway.

The criteria is just how challenging you felt it to be. Difficulty is subjective and everyone has their own debating criteria; this isn't a serious debating thread so I don't see the need for rigidly defined criteria.

[Constable Reggie]

So do I. It's a personal opinion thread anyway.

The criteria is just how challenging you felt it to be. Difficulty is subjective and everyone has their own debating criteria; this isn't a serious debating thread so I don't see the need for rigidly defined criteria.

Holy shit the irony man

Fe12 lunatic mode was probably the hardest for me, but part of the reason I guess why is because I used a quite few chump units likes Matthis, Radd, Caesar, Warren, etc alongside the staples like MU, Luke, and Sirius. I'm sure it would have been easier if I just used all the best characters, but what fun is there in doing that?

[Da Bear]

I'm sure it would have been easier if I just used all the best characters, but what fun is there in doing that?

This is exactly how I feel when I play FE. If I use all the broken things the game gives me it's no fun.

I can pretty much always do it anyway.

[Blademaster!]

You pair Chrom up with the Avatar after Chapter 3.

When you pair them up in the game doesn't matter as long as they have at least A rank by the final chapter. It doesn't work. Avatar doesn't do enough damage to Grima with Chrom support to kill him, and there are too many War Clerics that will heal him. You eventually get killed by long bow snipers, Grima, and the like.

[Chiki]

When you pair them up in the game doesn't matter as long as they have at least A rank by the final chapter. It doesn't work. Avatar doesn't do enough damage to Grima with Chrom support to kill him, and there are too many War Clerics that will heal him. You eventually get killed by long bow snipers, Grima, and the like.

Math time!

To do 10 damage on Grima, who has 53 def, one would need 73 might. As the Avatar's pair up partner, Pavise doesn't activate on Chrom, so you can reliably hit him 8 times (if you're worried about hit, use Henry and Tharja for their skills). Assuming Avatar has Celica's Gale, Chrom can get 8 hits on the player phase with Olivia's help.

How is Chrom going to get 73 might with the Falchion?! Well, the Falchion has 45 might on Grima since it's effective on him. So now you need 38 strength, which is tough to get, but not that hard. Rally Strength and a Strength Tonic will give you 6 strength, so now you need 32 strength. Chrom gets a 4 strength bonus and he has a 7 strength base, so you need to get 21 strength levels somehow. You get 3 Energy Drops (8, 18, 20) throughout the game, so now he needs 15 strength levels. Then there's the Naga's Tear so he needs 13.

Not looking so hard now huh? With a 60% strength growth, Chrom needs 22 levels on average to gain 13 strength increases. This is not hard at all: with Nosferatu Avatar, you can steamroll through chapters with absurd ease and Chrom will get to level 20 promoted by the time of the final chapter; since he has such a high chance to attack enemies thanks to marriage and Dual Strike he can get 15 exp (?) per fight.

I've done it before, so unless you're accusing me of lying...

Edited June 14, 2013 by Chiki

[Da Bear]

I've done it before, so unless you're accusing me of lying...

So have I!

Just in case people didn't believe Olwen for some dumb reason.

[Anouleth]

Math time!

To do 10 damage on Grima, who has 53 def, one would need 73 might. As the Avatar's pair up partner, Pavise doesn't activate on Chrom, so you can reliably hit him 8 times (if you're worried about hit, use Henry and Tharja for their skills). Assuming Avatar has Celica's Gale, Chrom can get 8 hits on the player phase with Olivia's help.

How is Chrom going to get 73 might with the Falchion?! Well, the Falchion has 45 might on Grima since it's effective on him. So now you need 38 strength, which is tough to get, but not that hard. Rally Strength and a Strength Tonic will give you 6 strength, so now you need 32 strength. Chrom gets a 4 strength bonus and he has a 7 strength base, so you need to get 21 strength levels somehow. You get 3 Energy Drops (15, 18, 20) throughout the game, so now he needs 15 strength levels. Then there's the Naga's Tear so he needs 13.

Not looking so hard now huh? With a 60% strength growth, Chrom needs 22 levels on average to gain 13 strength increases. This is not hard at all: with Nosferatu Avatar, you can steamroll through chapters with absurd ease and Chrom will get to level 20 promoted by the time of the final chapter; since he has such a high chance to attack enemies thanks to marriage and Dual Strike he can get 15 exp (?) per fight.

EDIT: I just forgot the Chapter 8 Energy Drop, so it's even easier than that...

I've done it before, so unless you're accusing me of lying...

It's not really a solo if you're using Olivia and a Rally Strength dude... Also, Celica's Gale is only reliably available through Spotpass.

[Chiki]

It's not really a solo if you're using Olivia and a Rally Strength dude... Also, Celica's Gale is only reliably available through Spotpass.

I didn't say solo in the very strict sense, because then pair up partners and such would be banned as well.

Spotpass items are allowed in debates today because it's very likely that a person will be able to access an internet connection at least once (McDonalds, Starbucks etc.)

[dondon151]

If there's one way to trivialize a game, then that game is trivial regardless of how difficult it is without the trivializing factor.

then every fire emblem mode is equally difficult

FE12 is a little less trivial than the rest, but you still have a potentially insane avatar.

[Chiki]

then every fire emblem mode is equally difficult

FE12 is a little less trivial than the rest, but you still have a potentially insane avatar.

Trivializations vary between games. FE5, for example, has chapters in which you can't warp skip, and so on. That's a very narrow minded way of thinking.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Chiki

[Anouleth]

it's easy to beat any fire emblem as long as you know exactly what to do on every single turn in every single chapter

[Junkhead]

FE13 LM is just a joke thanks to the Avatar. I beat it in a couple hours on my first try, so it's not even worth considering.

FE8 has Seth.

Your point?

[Chiki]

Nosferatu.

[Junkhead]

I'd rather not spend a million turns raising The Avatar earlygame as worth it as it may be. Seth is fantastic right off the bat and might as well stay that way throughout his whole career.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Soul

[Chiki]

And I'd rather not solo Lunatic with the Avatar, either, but it's there and can be trivialized. The game isn't not trivial simply because you don't want to do something.

[Junkhead]

And it isn't any easier if it took you just a few hours of Avatar favoritism either.

I really wonder what kind of strategy is that, if it's basically an Avatar solo, it's kind of implied you're pouring everything onto him, including kills. That's not without the cost of turns earlygame.

[Redwall]

Independently figuring out how to trivialize FE 13 earlygame with a +Def Avatar requires a nontrivial amount of FE knowhow. The water trick wasn't uncovered until recently, AFAIK; even those players who realize the Avatar can traverse water tiles won't necessarily put two and two together in that particular context. Putting the water trick aside, you can plan out a clear that feeds all but one or two kills to the Avatar, but the players who are clever enough to figure that out on their own are unlikely to struggle with the remainder of the earlygame with or without the Avatar.

That said, it's definitely true that post-C13 Lunatic is a joke since having a strong Avatar by that point requires much less planning than would having a strong Avatar by the end of Prologue.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Redwall

[Chiki]

My first time with Lunatic mode, in which I soloed with the Avatar, I beat it without the water trick but I don't remember how. So I just put the water trick instead.

I really wonder what kind of strategy is that, if it's basically an Avatar solo, it's kind of implied you're pouring everything onto him, including kills. That's not without the cost of turns earlygame.

This isn't an LTC thread. No one cares about turns here.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Chiki

[Blademaster!]

Nosferatu.

Is a horribly inefficient way of beating the game, really only feels like such an easy way to beat the game since you can just press start and skip everything, and gives you a much higher chance of getting a gameover when compared to other strategies. And even then, the only reason Nostanking even works in Lunatic no grind is more because of Veteran than anything else.

Regardless, the main reason fire emblem is even difficult is because of the limitations we place upon ourselves, just like almost any RPG. Even chapter 2 of Lunatic+ isn't that bad if you're willing to sacrifice someone, and now that classic mode exists, the game is almost a joke. If IS really wanted to make the game more difficult, they would add more conditions to chapters that would cause you to get a game over, giving you more insentive to actually use and keep everyone alive or something along those lines.