Paladin and Nomad Trooper Debate

[Rienfleche]

Kent>Rath>Sain>Isadora>Lowen>Marcus

Kent's high accuracy and speed but low strength makes him suited to axes imo. He needs the extra power and doesn't mind losing some accuracy.

Rath is pretty good, he does a lot of criticals, and even though he joins late, he's pretty durable.

Sain is always a sword user when I use him. The swords are accurate and because of his high strength, he can still kill stuff despite swords being the weakest of the three weapons.

Isadora, I use her a bit and she usually turns out okay. If nothing else, she comes with an angelic robe.

Lowen, Terrible growths, terrible bases.. Atleast he has 38 level ups and a promotion ahead of him ><

Marcus is my rescue slave.

[_____]

Lowen, Terrible growths, terrible bases.. Atleast he has 38 level ups and a promotion ahead of him ><

._. He's got a 90% HP growth, higher than that of any other character besides Merlinus. And besides that, his lowest growth rate is 30, which isn't that bad at all.

Lol, I'm only responding to Lowen posts. Must prove he's awesome.

[Rienfleche]

Meh, I never have trouble maxing Kent's HP, so I don't really care.

Also, this is supposed to be a debate so I guess I'll just ask. Why do you guys like Sain more than Kent?

[Ϲharlie]

I consider Sain better than Kent because of his overkill strength growth. Kent has higher skill, but that hardly matters since the enemies have garbage avoid in this game. Sain has no problem hitting as long as he's using an iron weapon.

[CGV]

Also, this is supposed to be a debate so I guess I'll just ask. Why do you guys like Sain more than Kent?

Sain always did better for me than Kent. But that's just me

[Eaichu]

Sain>Kent>Lowen>Rath=Marcus>etc

The only real debate is between Kent and Sain, and it basically comes down to Kent being a bit more useful earlygame because he has more AS(going to double more frequently, outdamages Sain overall etc), later on, Sain just takes the lead when he gets enough SPD to continuously double most enemy units without a hassle. Kent can always use stronger weapons to make up for his slight STR loss in the earlygame anyway, while Sain is never going to be able to get around the fact he can't double as frequently.

Lowen turns out to be a great tank, but his poor offense always stays poor. Never really manages to get enough AS to double important units, and the damage he's dealing with his STR is mediocre. Doesn't die, doesn't kill anything, pretty moot unit; he's still good just not accomplishing as much as Kent & Sain do for the team. Great support partner for Eliwood & Marcus too. :)

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Ladies and Gents one of the top debaters have arrived.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Mitsuru Kirijo

[DragonBladeSniper]

Ladies and Gents one of the top debaters have arrived.

Do you mean you or Eaichu?

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Yes I meant him.

[Florete]

Sain>Kent>Lowen>Rath=Marcus>etc

I stopped reading there. Obvious BS.

[Kintenbo]

I stopped reading there. Obvious BS.

Really, this Marcus doesn't deserve the bad rap he gets. Even the older him is useful. He's slow, but he helps make Hard Mode S rankable. Obviously he's not endgame material, but stats aren't the only thing to consider for usefulness. Rath rejoins late and is stuck with bows until promotion. Just be thankful Eaichu didn't put Rath below Marcus.

[Florete]

Really, this Marcus doesn't deserve the bad rap he gets. Even the older him is useful. He's slow, but he helps make Hard Mode S rankable. Obviously he's not endgame material, but stats aren't the only thing to consider for usefulness. Rath rejoins late and is stuck with bows until promotion. Just be thankful Eaichu didn't put Rath below Marcus.

I agree, Marcus is very useful for a while, but putting him with Rath is just an insult. It's tough to compare with Rath in here, because he isn't a paladin, but he's amazing once gotten up to speed.

[Rehab]

He's kind of tough to get up to speed, though. He doesn't come in at a part very friendly to level 10-ish bow users, and it's not likely he got a ot of leveling in Lyn's part, unless he got it at the expense of other units you rely on more. If the arena isn't an option, he'll be grinding for a bit, when other units already up to speed could be getting the job done quicker.

[Florete]

He's kind of tough to get up to speed, though. He doesn't come in at a part very friendly to level 10-ish bow users, and it's not likely he got a ot of leveling in Lyn's part, unless he got it at the expense of other units you rely on more. If the arena isn't an option, he'll be grinding for a bit, when other units already up to speed could be getting the job done quicker.

I agree that he doesn't join at a perfect time for him, but he isn't particularly a challenge to level up either. Played right, he can easily get a few levels on the chapter he joins, which will help him on the next chapter.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

I stopped reading there. Obvious BS.

Coming from the topic debater. I wouldn't be so sure of that. -_-

[Florete]

Coming from the topic debater. I wouldn't be so sure of that. -_-

After all this time you really think I care who it comes from?

[Eaichu]

Rath is better if you LHM abuse him to Lv. 20 and promote instantly when you get him; otherwise coming in rather late, no supports at that point at all, 2~2 weapon locked doesn't really help his case at all. Comparing him to Marcus at that point still gives Marcus more leverage because Marcus will be doing alot more for your team than Rath will; at that point Marcus will be superior statistically(not by much, but there), have full weapon triangle access + 1~2 weapon range(Hand Axe, Javalin).

Even if you do LHM abuse Rath, Lvl 1 Nomad Trooper Rath still has trouble comparing to a supported, slightly leveled Marcus at that point in the game because all Rath has is 2~2 weapon usage, and his sword level is still going to be E probably(very poor); while Marcus has A in Sword/Lance/Axe; Marcus gets the best boat defensively at that point and Rath is going to be better offensively(cause he actually has AS whereas Marcus doesn't, Marcus has enough to double enemies for a good while though so this doesn't mean too much until a certain amount of chapters pass, forgot the exact number off the top of my head)

It's all about unit utility and what they do as a whole rather than straight out stat focus; it doesn't take a genius to figure out that statistically Rath will be superior to Marcus if both are used all the way up to the endgame, but Marcus is doing way more for the team defensively and offensively until Rath does get up to speed, which requires time, et all. You need to consider that if both will be used seriously, then both will be supported seriously, meaning by the time that Rath joins... Marcus will have his support options already leveled and helping his offense + defense, putting him further ahead of Rath for some time.

On ranked runs, even worse, Marcus becomes way more helpful than Rath because Rath is going to stay behind for a little while, and as far as rush to promotion goes, is still on a lower scale compared to other units on your team :/

And actually, what am I saying... If we're comparing units in the hard modes, then that means Marcus > Rath.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Eaichu

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Fox I gotta say, you've been foxed :P

[Florete]

Fox I gotta say, you've been foxed :P

I could reply, but I didn't because I can see this is a person who has his mind set totally and anything I say would result in a pointless argument. I don't need anymore of those.

And why the hell did you even post that? It's obvious you're just trying to aggravate me. "Haha, I win, you lose." That's what I always get from you. You're lucky I don't warn you for spamming/flame baiting.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Fox

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

I could reply, but I didn't because I can see this is a person who has his mind set totally and anything I say would result in a pointless argument. I don't need anymore of those.

And why the hell did you even post that? It's obvious you're just trying to aggravate me. "Haha, I win, you lose." That's what I always get from you. You're lucky I don't warn you for spamming/flame baiting.

No offense or anything, you actually were the one who turn this to a pointless argument to begin with really. Also, this is a Paladin and Nomad Trooper Debate afterall. <_<

And I didn't mean to aggravating you in anyway at all. Eaichu's point proves to be more valid, I was simply agreeing with what he just wrote. Of course, you could probably come up with a stronger argument, then again you'd have to analyze the gameplays and each aspects of the units purpose. I also see no rules against what I posted at all when I was simply just agreeing, I see other people here done that and you never complain for that matter <_<. And if you think I still have beef with you in the previous past debate, I actually don't. It is like you said. This is a pointless debate afterall. Suffice to say, your not doing yourself any favors there at all...

[Florete]

No offense or anything, you actually were the one who turn this to a pointless argument to begin with really. Also, this is a Paladin and Nomad Trooper Debate afterall. <_<

And I didn't mean to aggravating you in anyway at all. Eaichu's point proves to be more valid, I was simply agreeing with what he just wrote. Of course, you could probably come up with a stronger argument, then again you'd have to analyze the gameplays and each aspects of the units purpose. I also see no rules against what I posted at all when I was simply just agreeing, I see other people here done that and you never complain for that matter <_<. And if you think I still have beef with you in the previous past debate, I actually don't. It is like you said. This is a pointless debate afterall. Suffice to say, your not doing yourself any favors there at all...

I actually have, or I've straight out warned them, but you wouldn't know that.

I may have started it, but I also attempted to end it by just not replying. Saying you don't have beef with me is pretty hard to believe, since you shoot down a good number of things I have to say. Do yourself a favor and don't reply to this unless it's in a PM.

I realize it's a Paladin and Nomad Trooper debate; that doesn't make it any easier comparing Rath to the paladins. It's likely only because he's the only NT, so there really isn't a very good candidate anywhere in the game to compare him to. The closest ones would be either Lyn, the snipers, or the paladins. I find it rather obvious he isn't easily comparable to any of them; they have too many differences.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

I find it rather obvious he isn't easily comparable to any of them; they have too many differences.

Define incomparable? Because they seem to be comparable to me.

And again, it is a pointless debate.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Mitsuru Kirijo

[Florete]

Define incomparable? Because they seem to be comparable to me.

Where did I say incomparable? I said "not easily comparable." Meaning, it's tough to really compare them as a result of their class differences:

Rath: Mounted, bows, swords on promotion

Lyn: Unmounted, swords, bows on (semi-fixed) promotion

Snipers: Unmounted, bows only

Paladins: Mounted, swords and lances, axes on promotion

It's obviously better to compare Rath to any of them rather than something like sages, but the differences outweigh the similarities. I can only see him truly being compared to the snipers, and even that can be hard. Basically what I'm saying is that he is unique for this game; no one is really like him.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Where did I say incomparable? I said "not easily comparable." Meaning, it's tough to really compare them as a result of their class differences:

Rath: Mounted, bows, swords on promotion

Lyn: Unmounted, swords, bows on (semi-fixed) promotion

Snipers: Unmounted, bows only

Paladins: Mounted, swords and lances, axes on promotion

It's obviously better to compare Rath to any of them rather than something like sages, but the differences outweigh the similarities. I can only see him truly being compared to the snipers, and even that can be hard. Basically what I'm saying is that he is unique for this game; no one is really like him.

So? Whats your point? They still both do physical damage and they're both are in this game that's about all they need for them in common to be comparable.

[Florete]

So? Whats your point? They still both do physical damage and they're both are in this game that's about all they need for them in common to be comparable.

Alright then, how about you go and compare Matthew to Oswin? Combat-wise, Oswin is obviously better. But Matthew has his lockpick/stealing utility and can handle axe users much better than an unpromoted Oswin. In cases like this, it's pretty much situational which character is the better one. That's why comparing Rath to most characters in this game is rather tough; he's unique, so whether he or someone else is better is situational and depends on personal experience. And please, DO NOT start an argument on personal experience.