Florete Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 topic winna! and also qftWhen promoted especially- Rath>Sain>Kent>Lowen>Marcus>Isadora I'd put Isadora above Marcus because she's hotter. What? Marcus is obviously more useful, I know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Isadora wears dark red lipstick into battle. That's extremely unattractive in my book. ._. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaichu Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) nvm Kent>Lowen>Sain>Marcus>Rath>Isadora HHM-ranked Edited August 31, 2008 by Eaichu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 True, but Matthew STILL has better speed than Oswin. Oswin average out 17 Speed while Matt will average out Speed much higher. Hmm, I imagine they both still double attack good enough. Sure, Oswin definately won't double attack sword units, but those fellas won't even stratch him. Sure, Matthew would make a nice Assassin, but why steal his stealing ability? Well, I guess you could say there's Legault for that. The movement argument doesn't hurt Oswin that much, since the maps aren't that big. The only time it's a hassle is perhaps chapters 16 Eliwood/17 Hector and 26 Eliwood/28 Hector. There's a ton of enemies heading straight towards you in the other chapters. You guys haven't put support lists and their affinity into account yet. Both of them have amazing lists, but who's the more amazing affinity holder? Let's see, Anima (Oswin's affinity) on average boosts the supporters' attack, defense, avoid, and critical avoid (sort of like luck, minus the extra avoidance). Wind (Matthew's affinity) on average boosts the supporters' attack, hit, critical, and critical avoid. If you ask me, Anima is the better deal, since extra defense and avoid is always great, while extra hit and critical isn't that necessary in this game, thanks to 0 luck enemies. Even though both have amazing support lists, let's get into detail, just for fun. Oswin has Hector, an excellent unit, Matthew, another nice unit (yeah, he's good, but we're arguing him based on fighting ability, which isn't his best point), Serra, a nice healer, Priscilla, an excellent healer, and Dorcas, a decent fighter. Matthew also has Hector and Serra, but also supports Oswin himself, Jaffar, an ok Assassin, Guy, the only good Myrmidon/Swordmaster in this game, and Legault, a nice thief. Determining who has the better deal is rather hard, since Oswin is a good deal for everyone. Hector probably will have Eliwood, but he will have room for Oswin. Matthew will want extra power, so Oswin would be perfect for him. Serra will benefit from Oswin rather well. Priscilla will probably have all sorts of other support partners, but it's a nice deal if you're not using the 5 others (not counting Heath, he's dismal in Hard Mode, due to massive archer and magic user population). Dorcas can take anyone he can get, so Oswin is his best bet. Matthew, just like Oswin, Hector has a good amount of people he wants to support. The extra hit might be nice for Hector, but avoid is probably his bigger concern. Serra might want Matthew, judging if Sain and Erk don't beat him there. Jaffar is not that great, but it's either Matthew, Nino, or Legault, so whatever. Guy will probably want Matthew, he'll need all the extra attack strength he can get, plus the extra critical makes him more useful. Legault probably won't be used for combat if you promote Matthew, so the extra combat stats aren't that useful. He'd much rather have extra defense and avoid. Really, Oswin and Matthew can support each other, making them both great deals. Oswin is a winner in combat, while Matthew is a winner in thief utility. So really, arguing the both of them is rather strange. Both are excellent deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 What the... Why were you guys having a Matthew vs Oswin debate on this topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 What the... Why were you guys having a Matthew vs Oswin debate on this topic? Moar Fox and Mitsuru/Gino/whatever he's called himself in the past clashing. Very random business, too. I'd expect a Marcus vs. Rath due to Fox's concern about the Marcus=Rath business. I just posted in hopes of that random Oswin vs. Matthew debate to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Moar Fox and Mitsuru/Gino/whatever he's called himself in the past clashing. Very random business, too. I'd expect a Marcus vs. Rath due to Fox's concern about the Marcus=Rath business. I just posted in hopes of that random Oswin vs. Matthew debate to stop. Yeah I just read the posts that I missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) Matthew also has Hector and Serra, but also supports Oswin himself, Jaffar, an ok Assassin, Guy, the only good Myrmidon/Swordmaster in this game, and Legault, a nice thief. Not really, Serra's support are actually slow with Matthew. Sure Matthew's base level at Lv. 1/20 Assassin is basically Jaffar Assassin Matthew on steroids without considering supports but when Matt is still 20/1, Matthew's growths are raping him across the board and he gains more EXP, so I wouldn't stick with Jaffar. Not to mention he gains more EXP than Jaffar. 20/1 Matthew has 20 Spd, and with KE, iirc 22 Atk and about 44 Crt, so about 70% chance to crit at least once and decimate. class EXP bonus + assassination bonus + 70% spd growth allows him to double the very few that he doesn't double (I don't recall if there are any above 16 Spd). Plus ~65 avo. And I don't see how is this relying on Luck if this calculation is stated using support factors. And he can even critical more than even Karel since he doesn't have the support factor whereas Matthew does. And btw Fox, End-game enemies hit a grand total of like 18 speed and 0 luck. That's pathetic avoid, you can quite easily guarantee 85% chances of Matt critical or being silenced. And which reminds me, Oswin average out 17 Speed at level 20/20 General so basically the enemy units just barely beat Oswin by speed.[sarcasm/] But I did state somewhere that Oswin is a good unit he just have poor movements and being slow compared to the rest of your teams besides Dorcas, Wallace, and Hawkeye who are pretty much slow. But utility is important on HHM and should come first come first serve: Stat's: Oswin wins, he knows this is true, and simply exists to do what he was meant to do, be the superior unit. However, Utility value far more than Combat value for the first chapter. You're saving yourself a more money and earning yourself more items interms of his usefulness in terms of fund rankings. Upon promotion, Matthew becomes more useful in terms of EXP run-throughs for Cog of Destiny. Hell yeah! Also, Matthew has good supports with Hector and Guy. With it he can critical more and gain EXP from Silencer making him more of a better fighter than Oswin. General's are slow, 5 movements. BAD. Doesn't gain as much EXP over Matthew. Poor support factors. Matthew wins in terms of combat and utilities. Edited August 31, 2008 by Mitsuru Kirijo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Your still continuing? O.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I was elaborating more. And I was mostly directing towards Kintenbo so no biggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 I was elaborating more. And I was mostly directing towards Kintenbo so no biggy. XD So your saying when you debate with a mod it's a biggy but when you talk to Kintenbo it's no biggy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 XD So your saying when you debate with a mod it's a biggy but when you talk to Kintenbo it's no biggy? He's yet to realize I'm srs bsns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGV Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Isadora wears dark red lipstick into battle. That's extremely unattractive in my book. ._. how exactly did you even notice that? I didn't even realize that and that's saying something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) Does this answer your question, I don't find her much attracting either. She seems rather old if you ask me. Edited August 31, 2008 by Mitsuru Kirijo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Does this answer your question, I don't find her much attracting either. She seems rather old if you ask me. Her official art actually gives her justice. It's a lot like Igrene. Not so good looking in the game, but her official art is <3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 He's yet to realize I'm srs bsns. nice pic XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Really, Oswin and Matthew can support each other, making them both great deals. Oswin is a winner in combat, while Matthew is a winner in thief utility. So really, arguing the both of them is rather strange. Both are excellent deals. That was the whole point from the start of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 That was the whole point from the start of things. Where did I say incomparable? I said "not easily comparable." Meaning, it's tough to really compare them as a result of their class differences:Rath: Mounted, bows, swords on promotion Lyn: Unmounted, swords, bows on (semi-fixed) promotion Snipers: Unmounted, bows only Paladins: Mounted, swords and lances, axes on promotion It's obviously better to compare Rath to any of them rather than something like sages, but the differences outweigh the similarities. I can only see him truly being compared to the snipers, and even that can be hard. Basically what I'm saying is that he is unique for this game; no one is really like him. Before you didn't go off-topic about that debate, you said that they're not easily to be compared but to defer that theory: They both can do physical towards enemies, the both can fight, and they both are in this game. Their caps are just one aspect of them, they still both have the exact same use which makes them both in comparison. How else can you compare them? Just asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Before you didn't go off-topic about that debate, you said that they're not easily to be compared but to defer that theory: They both can do physical towards enemies, the both can fight, and they both are in this game. Their caps are just one aspect of them, they still both have the exact same use which makes them both in comparison. How else can you compare them? Just asking. You obviously pay no attention to what I say, so I'm not going to waste my time or finger energy repeating myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Again, their class and their aspects are what they're are. All units in this game can fight and do physical damage. Thats all you need to compare them. Why do you think FEFF and FEP host a debate tournament for this type of debate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Again, their class and their aspects are what they're are. All units in this game can fight and do physical damage. Thats all you need to compare them. Why do you think FEFF and FEP host a debate tournament for this type of debate? You obviously pay no attention to what I say, so I'm not going to waste my time or finger energy repeating myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) Its funny because you seem to ignore my points. If I can't compare them then that's like saying you can't compare Sain and Lowen because Sain's strength growth is around double Lowen's. They might not have a different cap, you'll almost never see Lowen matching Sain's strength stat? Hmmm... And I'd say it one last time. They both fight. In this game. How else can you compare them? Why would they not be able to be compared? Edited August 31, 2008 by Mitsuru Kirijo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Again, their class and their aspects are what they're are. All units in this game can fight and do physical damage. Thats all you need to compare them. Why do you think FEFF and FEP host a debate tournament for this type of debate? Actually, there's thief, healing, and dancing/other forms of second movement utility that's used. For example, Matthew is considered top tier. He's not exactly a fighting machine, but it's the fact he can steal. The fact he gets you a Silver Card makes S ranking funds a walk in the park. Healing, without healers, you would die, or at least waste turns healing yourself. That's why healing is usually taken to account when dealing with magic users, since they all use staves (except for Super Pupil in Sacred Stoners) at some point. Units that allow other units to move again are almost always Top Tier, for the very sake of doing a very useful job. As far as weapon users that aren't thieves go, you are on the right track on how to compare them. A nomad attacks and does damage, just like a fighter, or myrmidon, or pegasus knight, you get the picture. Point is, just pure fighting isn't always what's taken to account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Yes, but they're both in this game...and can fight. Thats all you need... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintenbo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Yes, but they're both in this game...and can fight. Thats all you need... Was that directed to my post? If so, that response made absolutely no sense. Who do you mean by "both". If you're talking about Oswin and Matthew, then it's already established Oswin wins combat and Matthew wins thieving utility. Matthew isn't exactly a powerhouse, and he's definately not a tank. But he gives you the Silver Card, which is his ace in the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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