FE6 Localization Patch v1.2.1 - Full localization with new features, including Support Conversation reader

[Celice]

Depending on the context of the use of dark/shadow, you may be able to substitute in 'eldritch' instead of elder.

[bookofholsety]

Depending on the context of the use of dark/shadow, you may be able to substitute in 'eldritch' instead of elder.

i'm pretty sure Elibian dark magic has nothing to do with Cthulhu or whatever and that definitely wasn't the connection i was trying to make

[FionordeQuester]

No offense, FionordeQuester, but IMHO your chapter titles are just awful (minus Chapter 21 for obvious reasons), even if they were for a brand new game.

Aww, and what makes you say that :(? If they're awful, that's fine, but what's the reason they're awful?

[VincentASM]

Aww, and what makes you say that :(? If they're awful, that's fine, but what's the reason they're awful?

Okay, upon reflection, I was perhaps a bit harsh : P

After reading the names again, I reckon the names are mediocre at worst.

To be honest, it's possible the main reason I don't like them is because they're too different from what I perceive as classic names (and I realise some of the existing names are duds, like "Traps").

Eg. I don't see anything wrong with "Reunion" and "Collapse of the Alliance" and the new names aren't any better.

While some of them sound like something from a terrible hack.

Eg. "The Sword of Sacred Fire" (just because FE7 calls it that doesn't mean it's a good name) and "Wagner's Snare" (it's not often a minor boss appears in a chapter's name).

I also missed another good one, "The Remnants of Bern", although I kind of liked "The Ghosts of Bern".

i'm pretty sure Elibian dark magic has nothing to do with Cthulhu or whatever and that definitely wasn't the connection i was trying to make

Well, NOA does use the word "eldritch" to refer to the risen in FE13.

Edited August 27, 2013 by VincentASM

[Baldrick]

i'm pretty sure Elibian dark magic has nothing to do with Cthulhu or whatever

Now that I think about it, they do have their similarities. They're both Things Man Was Not Meant To Know, they're bad for your mental health, they both have an undeserved reputation for being evil... if it was a direct reference ('Lovecraftian Revelation') it would be taking serious liberties, but it's only a word association, so it's no less "inaccurate" than elder.

Plus, I think eldritch is punchier and more foreboding than elder.

[gringe]

@bookofholsety

Strange issue with Elphin, but if that's the only issue that arises and even if we don't find a solution, I'll still consider the patch a great success overall.

Igrene has been given her proper name already since the last patch.

And here we go... There was WAY more text than I realized in chapter 16 so it took longer than I hoped, but here is the new patch version.

8-28-2013 patch

http://www.mediafire.com/download/cc8hoo0e553idoe/FE6-8-28-2013.zip

It covers the main story up to Chapter 16x. Some text was written somewhat hurriedly or while I was in an exhausted state so the script is certainly always open for changes. I haven't tested Chapter 16x but I don't know any reason it shouldn't work.

If anyone will help with testing and pointing out errors or things that could be written better, I would certainly appreciate it! In particular I'm not that good with the "old-timey" kind of English that Fire Emblem often utilizes, so anyone who can think of phrasings that could replace some of the more colloquial ones (certain characters like Cath or Garret excepted) then that would be a big help.

The plan from here is to release one more patch after the Sacae/Ilia split then the final main story patch after that.

I'm afraid I'm in a bit of a rush right now so if there are any issues with the patch not working or something I unfortunately can't look into it until after I get home tonight.

Edited August 27, 2013 by gringe

[Celice]

Now that I think about it, they do have their similarities. They're both Things Man Was Not Meant To Know, they're bad for your mental health, they both have an undeserved reputation for being evil... if it was a direct reference ('Lovecraftian Revelation') it would be taking serious liberties, but it's only a word association, so it's no less "inaccurate" than elder.

Plus, I think eldritch is punchier and more foreboding than elder.

To me, using 'eldritch' adds the connotations of a primordial, unhuman "baseness", of which a revelation (as a revealing of predestination) is, in some sense, by definition so.

It captures both a dark and an old sense of something that has been moving for some time, something beyond the ken of human knowing, and perhaps even beyond their agency to change.

[FionordeQuester]

Hmm...now that I think of it, I think I have a better name for Chapter 7. How about "Insurrection"? Since Devias and Leygance are villains who are starting a rebellion at Ostia? I also like some people's suggestions of "Ensnared" for Chapter 6, and I now agree that changing the name for Chapters 8, 8x, and 9 was unnecessary.

Also, I've decided my previous title for Chapter 21x, "The Grim Reaper's Dirge", was too wordy, so I made it into "Dirge of the Reaper" instead. What do you think of that?

To be honest, it's possible the main reason I don't like them is because they're too different from what I perceive as classic names (and I realise some of the existing names are duds, like "Traps").

I see. That's a valid point really. On one hand, I think there's a real danger in being too literal with things that are ultimately not important to be literal on (I mean really, what's a Chapter title if it doesn't get you excited about what's happening?), but on the other hand, it ends up even worse if the new names aren't any better. Plus, while I generally admire an ability to create Woosleyisms (some of the my favorite lines from stuff like the English dub of Yu Yu Hakusho were Woosleyisms not present in the original version for example), I realize not everyone is entirely ok with that, and it definitely takes some degree of writing know-how to make it work (know-how that I'm not sure I can really claim to have).

That said though, that's what we have editors for, right?

EDIT: Now that I think of it, can I also go a little bit more into why I chose "Picking Up the Pieces" for the Final Chapter? This is one I put a bit of thought into, and a title that I feel is better than the original title for a few reasons. Mind if I share them? Or would that be me making an unwelcome intrusion on Gringe's show again?

Edited August 28, 2013 by FionordeQuester

[gringe]

I don't really care what you talk about as long as it relates to the patch and isn't worthless. I don't think many people agree with the "Picking Up the Pieces" title so I'm not sure you'll get anywhere though.

[FionordeQuester]

I see. Well then, here was my reasoning...

1) Idoun's thing is that her soul has been dashed to pieces in the process of reconfiguring her into the ultimate weapon, right? There's even a bit of symbolism there to represent that in the game, where one of her eyes are green, and the other is purple. And, I believe that, as long as it's not too obvious and hamfisted, the writing can play a powerful role in bringing that home as well, which unfortunately, the current script doesn't seem to take advantage of. So I was thinking of adding a bit of that symbolism.

2) "Picking Up the Pieces" is also an expression for rebuilding one's life after some really grievous harm, emotional or physical, is done to them. And that's exactly what Roy wants to do for Idoun, if he can.

3) This also describes how the Lycian League wishes to rebuild their nation after the war finally ends, so this expression, even if the player doesn't get the best ending, still makes sense in terms of what happens in the chapter.

4) And of course, I think the expression also works because of the sad implication behind it, and because Idoun's theme, which is extremely sad itself, is front and center in Roy's encounter with her. Because of that, I also experimented with titles like "Bereavement", "Reachi

I experimented with stuff like "Bereavement", "Reaching through the Cracks", "The True Victims" (part of a saying about which kind of person really suffers most in war, which Idoun definitely was), "The Light at the End", and other stuff like that, but none of them quite captured ALL of the aspects of the final chapter like this title did.

In regards to the original title, I'll admit that "Beyond the Darkness" isn't really a bad title, because you can at least infer that it speaks of what's happening in a "light at the end of the tunnel kind of way", and of course, stuff like "Beyond" and "Darkness" are always good buzzwords, but I still found it a little too vague for my liking.

Edited August 28, 2013 by FionordeQuester

[LunaSaint]

Ooh, a Gringe project! It's been a long time.

I'm really liking what you've done so far; it feels a lot livelier than a standard fan translation.

Will definitely keep an eye on this.

[bookofholsety]

at first i was only planning to edit the chapter labels i/we/whatever intend to rename, given that as they stand in the patch they're actually all pretty well-aligned

but then i noticed

and damnit now i've seen that all the periods in thse are cut off like this i just can't forget it and i now have to go back and fix all of them

oh well once i'm done with the main batch of adjustments i can probably get them all knocked out in like an hour if i sit myself down and focus

deliberately remains quiet on the issue of actual chapter names

[FionordeQuester]

deliberately remains quiet on the issue of actual chapter names

Trust me, I can definitely understand. People almost seem to get more up in arms about the names than the translation itself, both here AND everywhere else!

[bookofholsety]

remind me to talk to gringe about releasing a TRADITIONALIST EDITION which replaces every single name with zigludo or something

that said, fuck it i think i'll bite on the matter

11B, 10B and 10A respectively; 11A is unchanged so why even bother

Edited August 29, 2013 by bookofholsety

[CT075]

zigludo's descent of jihad

best translation ever

[FionordeQuester]

remind me to talk to gringe about releasing a TRADITIONALIST EDITION which replaces every single name with zigludo or something

Don't forget about all the villains who "thoroughly understand" their bosses orders, yelling at all "those young punks with their butts still blue", and believe that the heroes "sicken them with how utterly lenient they are".

[bookofholsety]

replace the entire script with the full text of this fanfic, with no regard for context

[FionordeQuester]

replace the entire script with the full text of this fanfic, with no regard for context

PFFFFFFFFFFFFT !!

EDIT: Anyways though, I'll bite as well. They don't really sit right with me because they sound too passive. "A Quest for Freedom" sounds more like a long journey rather than overthrowing cruel oppressors, Amidst a Struggle isn't bad, but struggle isn't really a very strong word, and Western Resistance seems a little plain...

Of course, Gringe, when I sent him my script for Chapter 1, said, and I paraphrase "that my script was entertaining and that I had the right idea, but the overall style of it was slightly cartoonish", so take it for what you will. Though, I guess anyone who's curious can always check out the thread I made, right?

Edited August 29, 2013 by FionordeQuester

[bookofholsety]

"A Quest for Freedom" sounds more like a long journey rather than overthrowing cruel oppressors

to be fair, the Japanese/current name "Escape to Freedom" doesn't have much to do with overthrowing anyone either. the chapter is somewhat primarily concerned with ensuring the prisoners escape, with Roy taking down Edina being more a nice little bonus than anything. now i think about it, though, Samias's suggestion - Flight Toward Freedom - would be a pretty good alternative

Amidst a Struggle isn't bad, but struggle isn't really a very strong word

this was mostly intentional; after all, until Roy got there, the Isles resistance honestly wasn't doing particularly strongly. they were struggling, you could say, and when Roy marches in there he finds himself amidst it

and Western Resistance seems a little plain...

plain isn't necessarily bad; after all, what i just linked there is a pretty damn good example of what happens when one tries to dress one's words up excessively. FE's prose does tend toward being pretty purple at times, but there's a time and place for it

more importantly, it's pretty much a slightly more specific variant of the current title

Of course, Gringe, when I sent him my script for Chapter 1, said, and I paraphrase "that my script was entertaining and that I had the right idea, but the overall style of it was slightly cartoonish", so take it for what you will.

tying in neatly to the above: i think it's safe to say the particularly bombastic and cartoonish titles are best reserved for the more important parts of the game, like chapter 22 or something (speaking of which i REALLY like the current title and i'm not planning on doing anything to it; maybe there are technically more efficient ways of putting it but idk "the neverending dream" just works for me)

[gringe]

Ooh, a Gringe project! It's been a long time.

I'm really liking what you've done so far; it feels a lot livelier than a standard fan translation.

Will definitely keep an eye on this.

Oh, have you read some of the manga I've worked on? I must admit I didn't expect to see anyone here who read anything I did! Hope you enjoy the patch when it's done.

So, you want a progress report for today? DO YA? REALLY?

Yellow means a support conversation exists but isn't written or formatted yet.

Blue means it's written and been formatted properly, but isn't inserted.

Red will mean it's inserted and untested.

Green will mean it's all inserted and tested.

Today I cataloged the support conversations and their locations in the ROM. Given that there are about 140 possible pairings and over 400 conversations, none of which are easy to test, this is something I will need to document very carefully as I move through. But the cataloging is finished, so I can begin on support conversations whenever I'm ready, so there's that!

EDIT: Also the latest patch will now always be in the first post for easy access.

Edited August 29, 2013 by gringe

[Klokinator]

^That's an extremely good idea on how to format those, I'll make note of that when I make my own game :o

[FionordeQuester]

to be fair, the Japanese/current name "Escape to Freedom" doesn't have much to do with overthrowing anyone either. the chapter is somewhat primarily concerned with ensuring the prisoners escape, with Roy taking down Edina being more a nice little bonus than anything. now i think about it, though, Samias's suggestion - Flight Toward Freedom - would be a pretty good alternative

Okey doke then.

this was mostly intentional; after all, until Roy got there, the Isles resistance honestly wasn't doing particularly strongly. they were struggling, you could say, and when Roy marches in there he finds himself amidst it

But the original name was "Caught in the Middle", wasn't it? That implied to me that Roy and his men got themselves sandwiched between a pretty bad situation, hence what my title was. But, if the intent of the original Japanese is what you said, I suppose I'll defer that to you :)!

plain isn't necessarily bad; after all, what i just linked there is a pretty damn good example of what happens when one tries to dress one's words up excessively. FE's prose does tend toward being pretty purple at times, but there's a time and place for it

more importantly, it's pretty much a slightly more specific variant of the current title

Hmm...honestly, I didn't get "dressed up words too much" from the above link so much as I got "English clearly isn't this writer's first language", from how ridiculously awkward the dialogue and some of the prose seemed. But at any rate, in your humble opinion, are there any other titles of mine that you think could use another try, because of cartoonishness or otherwise?

speaking of which i REALLY like the current title and i'm not planning on doing anything to it; maybe there are technically more efficient ways of putting it but idk "the neverending dream" just works

I see. Now that I think about it, I remember that when I looked at this title again after having started my localization practice, the title actually made me think of 3:22 of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evItXg0DyEI

...And for a moment, I wondered "Since 'dream' and 'nightmare' seem to be similar enough in Japanese to be mistaken (it seemed to me this dub suffered from being WAY too literally translated...and of course, badly acted), should that have said 'nightmare' instead?".

Of course, now that I think of it, are you Fire Lizard? I thought I heard that at some point in the thread, and if you are, you would probably know better than me (since I know basically no Japanese), so...whatever you say!

EDIT: Wait, now that I think of it...was that link a slam on what I've been doing so far, or a slam on what I thought it was, which was really, really stilted dialogue as a result of translating something too literally? It's cool and funny either way, just curious.

Edited August 29, 2013 by FionordeQuester

[bookofholsety]

But the original name was "Caught in the Middle", wasn't it? That implied to me that Roy and his men got themselves sandwiched between a pretty bad situation, hence what my title was. But, if the intent of the original Japanese is what you said, I suppose I'll defer that to you :)!

the Japanese name for the chapter is 対立のはざまで, roughly "between conflict". i do think that "caught in the middle" is a pretty good way of interpreting it, given the core phrase is pretty difficult to make sound vaguely decent in English. your interpretation thereof is pretty much spot-on, but that's also exactly what "amidst a struggle" is: Roy's army find themselves caught in the middle of a struggle between the rebels and the colonialists. the "struggle" part connoting that the rebels aren't doing so well for themselves is something i threw in, but it contextually works and is a valid take on the name

I see. Now that I think about it, I remember that when I looked at this title again after having started my localization practice, the title actually made me think of 3:22 of this...[/font][/color]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evItXg0DyEI

...And for a moment, I wondered "Since 'dream' and 'nightmare' seem to be similar enough in Japanese to be mistaken (it seemed to me this dub suffered from being WAY too literally translated...and of course, badly acted), should that have said 'nightmare' instead?".

this sort of critical thought on conventional translated terms is definitely a good thing to do in theory, but there's virtually no room for confusion in the case of dream/nightmare; dream (夢) is relatively distinct from nightmare (悪夢) in Japanese (of course, inept translators could still make the error as per your link, but that's their loss really). that said, even if there were substantial cause for confusion and it could go either way, i honestly feel that of the two, "dream" makes a lot more sense for the final showdown with Zephiel; after all, what kind of sorry excuse for a nightmare is the war finally ending and the dude behind it being shown what-for?

Of course, now that I think of it, are you Fire Lizard? I thought I heard that at some point in the thread, and if you are, you would probably know better than me (since I know basically no Japanese), so...whatever you say!

nope, i'm definitely not FireLizard. i'm just some self-important fellow who accidentally stumbled into people listening to him on this stuff for some reason

EDIT: Wait, now that I think of it...was that link a slam on what I've been doing so far, or a slam on what I thought it was, which was really, really stilted dialogue as a result of translating something too literally? It's cool and funny either way, just curious.

nah it was just an excuse to bring up that particular fanfic in keeping with the trainwreck theme of the joke

it's surprising how rarely opportunities to bring up bad fanfic come up

[FionordeQuester]

the Japanese name for the chapter is 対立のはざまで, roughly "between conflict". i do think that "caught in the middle" is a pretty good way of interpreting it, given the core phrase is pretty difficult to make sound vaguely decent in English. your interpretation thereof is pretty much spot-on, but that's also exactly what "amidst a struggle" is: Roy's army find themselves caught in the middle of a struggle between the rebels and the colonialists. the "struggle" part connoting that the rebels aren't doing so well for themselves is something i threw in, but it contextually works and is a valid take on the name

At this point, I think it's down to personal preference then. I just like mine cuz I think it sounds cooler :p! But honestly, more than anything, I'm just glad that we could have a nice conversation.

this sort of critical thought on conventional translated terms is definitely a good thing to do in theory, but there's virtually no room for confusion in the case of dream/nightmare; dream (夢) is relatively distinct from nightmare (悪夢) in Japanese (of course, inept translators could still make the error as per your link, but that's their loss really). that said, even if there were substantial cause for confusion and it could go either way, i honestly feel that of the two, "dream" makes a lot more sense for the final showdown with Zephiel; after all, what kind of sorry excuse for a nightmare is the war finally ending and the dude behind it being shown what-for?

Here's the thing though, I'm not sure the chapter title is referring to the end of a nightmare so much as it's referring to Zephiel's whole "remember, as long as humanity exists, the madness will never end" speech. In fact, he even explicitly says...

But remember... My dream shall never die... As long as...humans retain control...madness will persist..."

So it leads me to believe that the Chapter refers to Zephiel's messed up perception of the world, hence, what he sees as a dream is a nightmare to any normal person. Of course, if you want to go for accuracy, and you really like the name (and believe me, I know how that is), that's cool. I just think that what the title is actually talking about is Zephiel's mission.

nah it was just an excuse to bring up that particular fanfic in keeping with the trainwreck theme of the joke. it's surprising how rarely opportunities to bring up bad fanfic come up

Oh, believe me, I know. I'm still waiting for the perfect opportunity to share Hammer of Terrascars, an otherwise decent fic that happens to have the Tactician beating Jaffar, alone, in a straight up, no-holds-bar, fair fight...

Oh, wait, I just did, didn't I?

Edited August 30, 2013 by FionordeQuester

[ThisProfileNoLongerUsed]

So far, this looks really really good. Keep up the work, I'm very impressed