Love and relationships

[Knife]

Familial love is generally unconditional and (almost) unbreakable. Usually you gotta love your family despite what happens, even if they're unlikable people. My grandma once told my mother "I may love you, but it's very hard to like you." (Slightly off topic but my mother's awesome and my grandma had it backwards) Families that lack familial love are generally the dysfunctional ones, I'd say.

Friendship love is the most ubiquitous. You enjoy spending time with the person to the point where you seek out their company. It's basically an advanced form of "liking" someone--but it's the kinda love that occurs in "true friendship"; with best friends.

Romantic love is weird, because it's no good on its own. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it doesn't exist on its own. If it attempts to exist on its own, all there is... is lust.

If those definitions sounded vague, that's because they are. There's some overlap, and moreover, love is different for everyone. But anyway, depending on the relationship, multiple loves should be there. A healthy sibling relationship would have both familial and friendship love; with just one the relationship is probably antagonistic. A healthy dating relationship ought to have at least friendship and romantic love--without the former it's just dating for dating's sake, and without the latter there's no passion; ideally it has all three.

And to speak from personal experience on the dating thing, since that seems to be Boney's particular interest... First a disclaimer: I've only been in one relationship, and it's online (... but not for long! In about three or four weeks I'll probably be able to see her). So if you think either fact precludes me from talking on the subject, stop reading here.

Maybe after 2 1/2 years strong I've still got my head in the clouds, but honestly, being in a relationship is awesome. She and I can tell each other anything, and generally it's just fun to be with her. Interaction between us just happens. Not gonna lie, we have our fights and sometimes they're about dumb things because both of us can be dumb here and there. But that's fine--good, even: the fact that we're not afraid to disagree with each other means we know we'll stay together despite the differences we have. The good times far outweigh the bad, etc. etc... I could go on and on about it but that's not what the topic's for. I'm just trying to say that a healthy relationship can happen.

Three more things. First, I concur with the overwhelming majority of the thread--love finds you, not the other way around. Second, you gotta love the whole person, not just the "good" parts. If you say "I'm looking for a girl who's nice" you already got it wrong. You shouldn't be looking, and you shouldn't be seeking qualities. Third, I repeat, you gotta love the whole person, including the "bad" parts. My girlfriend is compassionate, creative, funny, to name a few of her virtues; she's also lazy, jealous, and sometimes irrational. Just because those are flaws doesn't mean it's bad--it's good because the combination of all those traits together makes her, and I love her. Although this'll sound a little abstract, you can love the qualities about the person, but you shouldn't love the person because of any particular quality--you should love them for their mix.

This is BS as well. Relationships take effort to start. And guess what? Relationships take effort to maintain. If anyone ever tells you that a relationship just "fell" into their laps, they are either lying or are oblivious to the effort they actually put into it. This statement is also a paradox: If everyone waited for love to find them, who would ever initiate it? Nothing is wrong with not wanting a relationship, but if you do want one, do not wait for one to come to you.

While girls should not directly ask guys out, they can do many things that influence the guy to ask them out. Girls CAN ask guys out, but in most cases will be rejected unless they have a more dominant or assertive personality (which I assume is not true of most females on this site). I'm not saying this to be sexist or anything, but this is the reality and you can ask some of your female friends who have been in relationships about this.

There is no friendship prerequisite for a successful romantic relationship. While I do agree that friends make better partners because you have a natural affinity, you should not waste your time with everyone going through the stage of friends to romantic partners. In most cases, jumping to romantic partner is fine and be just as good as friends turned romantic. Plus, you won't jeopardize a friendship you already have.

I don't see anything wrong in changing your appearance for the other gender. It is as natural as mating dances other animals do to attract mates, only a lot more subtle. Both men and women do it. Everyone can stand to improve their appearance, either through effort or spending $. Once you have settled into a relationship (I.E. married, not dating. Dating is too early to be settled) or are not interested in a relationship, you can dress how you want.

Don't take my fashion sense too literally. Of course it will be different based on cultural and climate differences. I should clarify: What I described regarding wardrobe is more applicable to Houston, where I live. It is hot enough to wear this stuff 10 out of 12 months. I don't know much about fashion outside of America and in colder climates, but for colder climates I assume Uggs and slim-fitting coats are more popular. However, the non-wardrobe stuff should be applicable no matter where you are.

I forgot about wavy hair. Wavy only works if it's done at the bottom. Roots should still be straight or semi-straight, like so

:

Height? There is no truly bad height, however you do have better success with people around the same height as you. Relationships between people who are 6 foot+ and 5 foot- are extremely uncommon and for a reason.

One more thing: Personality should be the last thing you think about about before you start dating a stranger. Unless it is something outrageous, you will never truly know what a stranger's personality is like until at least a couple of dates. You are safer with dating friends in this regard because you already know their personality, but let's be realistic: making a move on friends can disrupt your social circle. In addition, you may not have many close friends of the opposite gender. Dating friends or strangers; there is a risk-reward for both of these and they're just about even IMO. I prefer to leave my social circle intact and date strangers because there is the possibility of your social circle growing and there are few repercussions (other than maybe wasted $ and time).

P.S. Seeking a relationship is by no means a sign of desperation and people need to get that stigma out of their heads. Of course, don't let your search consume all of your other priorities in life, but nothing is wrong with setting one or two days out of the week to go "hunting". Hell, try online dating, there are actually pretty good prospects there nowadays and growing to be one the main channels of finding dates.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Knife

[Nanami Touko]

Relationships between people who are 6 foot+ and 5 foot- are extremely uncommon and for a reason.

but that's my relationship and it's like the best thing ever ; ~ ;

I guess I should 2 cents the thread

I think that love and relationships are just part of life, honestly. I can honestly say that I was less happy before mine started, and it's just generally brightened up everything. Of course I still get sad, and down at times, but there's always this to fall back on no matter what happens, and it's a nice feeling.

I think Kife is throwing out some good ideas. Although I think some of them may be extreme, the message he's lending about looking good in things that look good on you is something that most people have thrown away. It's not about prettying yourself up to look like the stereotype, it's about taking what features you have and making them look the best they can for that great first impression I think What Not to Wear is a pretty good show people should watch it

Edited July 23, 2013 by I have opinions

[Anacybele]

I would strongly suggest getting a car and a license. Opens up many, many opportunities.

Easier said than done. I need to renew my permit first, find enough time to practice (which is scarce with both me and my parents working), pass a driver's test to get a license, then save up enough money for a car. This can take awhile.

Wavy-ish hair is actually really nice, imo. The 'credit card' straight style looks like you're trying too hard and awkward if you have really thin hair. And for height, are you comfortable in heels at all?

I feel like you'd have less back pain and your tops would fit better if you have a smaller chest, right? And this is a bit random, but...at least when you're squeezing sideways past 2 people standing close to each other, your chest doesn't embarrassingly slide against the person you're facing. UGH it's the worst. There used to be a group of boys that would clump in the doorway outside the art room before class and I always tried to avoid walking past them if possible.

Yeah., I really like my wavy hair too. As for heels, that depends on how high they are. I don't like those siletto-type pieces of crap at all. I'd never be able to walk in such things. But lower heels are fine.

As for my breast size, true, but I'm not saying I want them to be huge. In fact, I find that even more unattractive. I'd just like them to be a little bigger than the near smallest bra size in existence.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Anacybele

[Rehab]

I heard an NPR article on a study that actually saw a tendency where some college students changed in personality a bit after being roommates with somebody of a different personality type, specifically more negative versus more optimistic. Not sure where exactly the study or the results came from, but supposedly people who had depression and were kinda down actually seemed to be more happy in some noticeable capacity after a semester (IIRC) rooming with a more chipper person. There were also results where the more chipper person also seemed to shift their personality in a less optimistic direction, but there's at least some reason to hope that having a negative outlook, contrary to popular psychological wisdom, isn't something that's going to be set in stone for life.

"You have no excuse to not Get Out There and change your personality right this instant lest you be branded a quitter/hopeless degenerate/bad person" isn't something I'd want to tell somebody with it, to be sure, and that's also not to say having any particular personality type is inherently a bad thing rather than something with pros and cons, but if you do want to make a change in that department, I at least think it's nice to know that it's not an impossible thing!

This of course sounds laughably ironic coming from me, but it provides all the more reason to listen to science, and not the depressed S.A.D. sack with enough self-fulfilled prophecies to cover the walls in hieroglyphics over here

Edited July 23, 2013 by Rehab

[Ciarre]

Lol WHAT. Knife do you live in a very warm climate? Where I live, no one wears sleeveless anything. Tank tops/shorts occasionally make an appearance for like...a couple weeks during the summer. People wear pants or knee-length ish skirts most of the time. It IS cold and rainy all the time, though, so I guess that's hardly surprising.

Texas is really hot most of the time. I wouldn't wear jeans/long pants outside until like October at least. Granted, I live in a different part of Texas but it should be pretty similar.

[Lux Aeterna]

This is BS as well. Relationships take effort to start. And guess what? Relationships take effort to maintain. If anyone ever tells you that a relationship just "fell" into their laps, they are either lying or are oblivious to the effort they actually put into it. This statement is also a paradox: If everyone waited for love to find them, who would ever initiate it? Nothing is wrong with not wanting a relationship, but if you do want one, do not wait for one to come to you.

Relationships =/= love. You can seek a relationship, and you can want love in the relationship, but you can't force love. Boney said just about as much, with the whole "you can't control love" thing. If you attempt to superimpose love onto a relationship, it's likely going to experience turmoil. If you're calling a relationship love then that's an issue with how you read my statement. Reread that statement you bolded a couple of time and tell me where in it that I said relationships find you. You can't, because I said love finds you. I totally agree you should seek out relationships if you want them! But if you want ones that flourish, affection ideally happens before you jump into the relationship. Nor did I ever claim that relationships are effortless. Of course you have to put effort in, but a good relationship usually (but not always) feels effortless because the amount of enjoyment in it dwarfs the effort required.

While girls should not directly ask guys out, they can do many things that influence the guy to ask them out. Girls CAN ask guys out, but in most cases will be rejected unless they have a more dominant or assertive personality (which I assume is not true of most females on this site). I'm not saying this to be sexist or anything, but this is the reality and you can ask some of your female friends who have been in relationships about this.

"I'm not trying to be sexist, but girls should not directly ask guys out." So where does that leave the girls? You say people should seek out relationships if they want them, but you're saying girls should "influence" things instead of directly attempting to get a relationship? Assigning gender roles is already misunderstanding the basis of love, since true relationship love (the dating/marriage kind) is founded on equality.

There is no friendship prerequisite for a successful romantic relationship. While I do agree that friends make better partners because you have a natural affinity, you should not waste your time with everyone going through the stage of friends to romantic partners. In most cases, jumping to romantic partner is fine and be just as good as friends turned romantic. Plus, you won't jeopardize a friendship you already have.

I didn't say you had to be friends first, but there has to be that kind of "click" that there is with friends. But if it's just romantic then, as I said, you are dating for the sake of dating, which is generally doomed for failure--for example, most high school relationships tend to end because people are in it just for the dating--I've seen it happen with most of them. To sum it up concisely, "your girlfriend/boyfriend should also be your best friend." Don't jump to the conclusion that I'm saying you should throw your actual best friend away; I'm saying you should have a similar level of friendship love with your significant other.

I don't see anything wrong in changing your appearance for the other gender. It is as natural as mating dances other animals do to attract mates, only a lot more subtle. Both men and women do it. Everyone can stand to improve their appearance, either through effort or spending $. Once you have settled into a relationship (I.E. married, not dating. Dating is too early to be settled) or are not interested in a relationship, you can dress how you want.

I remember seeing somewhere else on this site someone posted a great example of why your line of thinking here is wrong (sorry to who it is that I'm not crediting you, I can't remember). They said that they had a guy friend who was ugly as sin, yet was very charismatic and attracted a lot of people via his personality. Another friend of mine told me that she ended up finding her boyfriend attractive as a result of dating him--that she naturally became attracted to him over time. I especially take issue with your statement that you can basically "let yourself go" after you've married someone. So, what? You're just putting on a mask and then you take it off once you've tied the knot and say "Surprise! I only looked like that so you would be attracted to me, but now I don't give a fuck anymore! : )" If a person judges based off of appearances, then that's the real filter--they're too shallow to care about what's important.

One more thing: Personality should be the last thing you think about about before you start dating a stranger. Unless it is something outrageous, you will never truly know what a stranger's personality is like until at least a couple of dates. You are safer with dating friends in this regard because you already know their personality, but let's be realistic: making a move on friends can disrupt your social circle. In addition, you may not have many close friends of the opposite gender. Dating friends or strangers; there is a risk-reward for both of these and they're just about even IMO. I prefer to leave my social circle intact and date strangers because there is the possibility of your social circle growing and there are few repercussions (other than maybe wasted $ and time).

You're saying you should play a game of roulette and hope that you click with a person who you date. It can work, but the reason it usually doesn't is because you're seeking a relationship with just anyone, which means there's only the romantic love there to start with--and, like I said, those tend to fail if friendship love doesn't soon follow. But you're saying you shouldn't date friends because it could make things awkward between you two and your other friends? Well, dating can be a risk, but the point is you care about the person enough that you decide that the reward is worth the possible drawbacks that could result from failure. My girlfriend was first my friend before we started dating, and I had a rough patch with another friend of mine as a result of trying to get together with her. But we smoothed it over and everything ended well. That's because good friends can usually work things out. So it really shouldn't be a problem to begin with.

P.S. Seeking a relationship is by no means a sign of desperation and people need to get that stigma out of their heads. Of course, don't let your search consume all of your other priorities in life, but nothing is wrong with setting one or two days out of the week to go "hunting". Hell, try online dating, there are actually pretty good prospects there nowadays and growing to be one the main channels of finding dates.

Seeking a relationship is fine if you have someone in mind; if you're just seeking a relationship for the sake of it all, you're probably just going to get hurt. Yes, maybe you're the kind of person who needs someone else in your life (I don't criticize anyone for that, it's just how some people are), but you're a lot more likely to get hurt. But let me repeat: love finds you, not vice versa. You can find a relationship, but whether love follows is not up to you.

EDIT: Wow I hate quoting in this new layout.

EDIT2: Also, I have no problem with bettering yourself for others' sake. But show your attempts to become better by smoothing out the rough edges in your personality (like, if you're overly caustic, work on that), rather than appearance. It's harder to see, sure, but changing your appearance for others is going about it wrong. Just do your best for them without compromising yourself.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Lux Aeterna

[Nightmare]

All this overanalysing is silly. Love and relationships don't really have a set form. Sure, there are tips and guidelines, but to try and make a science out of it...I don't know.

[Lux Aeterna]

I agree--they don't have a set form. What's right to do with them is hard to say (since there is no right answer), but what's not right is a lot easier to identify. I'm just trying to spot the recurring themes in most healthy relationships, but... there are exceptions to everything. How Knife suggests going about it can work, it just depends on the person (and the reason I disagreed was because he seems to think it's the ideal way).

But yes, despite how the way I said it might have made it look like I was trying to assert love is a science--it's not. It's totally inexact.

[Knife]

Relationships =/= love. You can seek a relationship, and you can want love in the relationship, but you can't force love. Boney said just about as much, with the whole "you can't control love" thing. If you attempt to superimpose love onto a relationship, it's likely going to experience turmoil. If you're calling a relationship love then that's an issue with how you read my statement. Reread that statement you bolded a couple of time and tell me where in it that I said relationships find you. You can't, because I said love finds you. I totally agree you should seek out relationships if you want them! But if you want ones that flourish, affection ideally happens before you jump into the relationship. Nor did I ever claim that relationships are effortless. Of course you have to put effort in, but a good relationship usually (but not always) feels effortless because the amount of enjoyment in it dwarfs the effort required.

"I'm not trying to be sexist, but girls should not directly ask guys out." So where does that leave the girls? You say people should seek out relationships if they want them, but you're saying girls should "influence" things instead of directly attempting to get a relationship? Assigning gender roles is already misunderstanding the basis of love, since true relationship love (the dating/marriage kind) is founded on equality.

I didn't say you had to be friends first, but there has to be that kind of "click" that there is with friends. But if it's just romantic then, as I said, you are dating for the sake of dating, which is generally doomed for failure--for example, most high school relationships tend to end because people are in it just for the dating--I've seen it happen with most of them. To sum it up concisely, "your girlfriend/boyfriend should also be your best friend." Don't jump to the conclusion that I'm saying you should throw your actual best friend away; I'm saying you should have a similar level of friendship love with your significant other.

I remember seeing somewhere else on this site someone posted a great example of why your line of thinking here is wrong (sorry to who it is that I'm not crediting you, I can't remember). They said that they had a guy friend who was ugly as sin, yet was very charismatic and attracted a lot of people via his personality. Another friend of mine told me that she ended up finding her boyfriend attractive as a result of dating him--that she naturally became attracted to him over time. I especially take issue with your statement that you can basically "let yourself go" after you've married someone. So, what? You're just putting on a mask and then you take it off once you've tied the knot and say "Surprise! I only looked like that so you would be attracted to me, but now I don't give a fuck anymore! : )" If a person judges based off of appearances, then that's the real filter--they're too shallow to care about what's important.

You're saying you should play a game of roulette and hope that you click with a person who you date. It can work, but the reason it usually doesn't is because you're seeking a relationship with just anyone, which means there's only the romantic love there to start with--and, like I said, those tend to fail if friendship love doesn't soon follow. But you're saying you shouldn't date friends because it could make things awkward between you two and your other friends? Well, dating can be a risk, but the point is you care about the person enough that you decide that the reward is worth the possible drawbacks that could result from failure. My girlfriend was first my friend before we started dating, and I had a rough patch with another friend of mine as a result of trying to get together with her. But we smoothed it over and everything ended well. That's because good friends can usually work things out. So it really shouldn't be a problem to begin with.

Seeking a relationship is fine if you have someone in mind; if you're just seeking a relationship for the sake of it all, you're probably just going to get hurt. Yes, maybe you're the kind of person who needs someone else in your life (I don't criticize anyone for that, it's just how some people are), but you're a lot more likely to get hurt. But let me repeat: love finds you, not vice versa. You can find a relationship, but whether love follows is not up to you.

EDIT: Wow I hate quoting in this new layout.

EDIT2: Also, I have no problem with bettering yourself for others' sake. But show your attempts to become better by smoothing out the rough edges in your personality (like, if you're overly caustic, work on that), rather than appearance. It's harder to see, sure, but changing your appearance for others is going about it wrong. Just do your best for them without compromising yourself.

Wait a minute, I was just talking about dating. Now that I think on it, you did say love, not relationships... damn you confused me because it seemed that comment was directed towards my post and I started getting into love, not how to get relationships. Though technically, dating (whether as friends or boyfriends/girlfriends) is a prerequisite to loving, so my statement still stands. From my first post in this topic:

Yes, this is more dating advice and less about love, but you have to realize: love cannot grow unless you get to know the other person, e.g. dating. Love at first sight is bullshit. Crushes will wane away. You will have relationships that are perfect in the beginning but suck later on. Relationships are only one aspect of life and not everything.

Well, it looks like I'm going to exit this portion of the debate, sorry.

Two things though:

"I'm not trying to be sexist, but girls should not directly ask guys out." So where does that leave the girls? You say people should seek out relationships if they want them, but you're saying girls should "influence" things instead of directly attempting to get a relationship? Assigning gender roles is already misunderstanding the basis of love, since true relationship love (the dating/marriage kind) is founded on equality.

Yes, that's correct. I believe girls shouldn't ask guys out because the success rate is very low. Gender roles are still relevant and powerful. Yes, there will be exception, but can you honestly say that girls ask guys out just as much as guys ask girls out? Not even close.

I remember seeing somewhere else on this site someone posted a great example of why your line of thinking here is wrong (sorry to who it is that I'm not crediting you, I can't remember). They said that they had a guy friend who was ugly as sin, yet was very charismatic and attracted a lot of people via his personality. Another friend of mine told me that she ended up finding her boyfriend attractive as a result of dating him--that she naturally became attracted to him over time. I especially take issue with your statement that you can basically "let yourself go" after you've married someone. So, what? You're just putting on a mask and then you take it off once you've tied the knot and say "Surprise! I only looked like that so you would be attracted to me, but now I don't give a fuck anymore! : )" If a person judges based off of appearances, then that's the real filter--they're too shallow to care about what's important.

Appearance is like a catalyst for dating. Yes, I agree that it does not matter matter in the end, but you do need it to initiate relationships. The example you mentioned is an exception to the rule. Personality can overcome appearance, but that is extremely rare. And personality is not something that can change easily. It's not a surprise to "let yourself go" because at that point of the relationship, physical appearance no longer matters. If the partner leaves because of a physical change in the other partner, then it's not really love.

My standard approach to dating and love is: date as many people as you can and dump their ass when you know it's not working. It is a lottery, but you will eventually find "the one". I myself haven't found "the one", but I am actively searching.

To the rest of you: Take my advice or not, I don't care. But I assure you it will at least help you get more dates. Finding love is debatable, but at the very least you'll get laid :). That's the last I want to say on this matter. Thanks for reading.

Waha Kife

[Phoenix Wright]

Appearance is like a catalyst for dating. Yes, I agree that it does not matter matter in the end, but you do need it to initiate relationships. The example you mentioned is an exception to the rule. Personality can overcome appearance, but that is extremely rare. And personality is not something that can change easily. It's not a surprise to "let yourself go" because at that point of the relationship, physical appearance no longer matters. If the partner leaves because of a physical change in the other partner, then it's not really love.

From what I've read, a notable reason why many marriages don't work is because both partners start to "let themselves go."

Being married doesn't give one a reason to stop taking care of oneself. Relationships at any level will always take effort.

[Lux Aeterna]

Wait a minute, I was just talking about dating. Now that I think on it, you did say love, not relationships... damn you confused me because it seemed that comment was directed towards my post and I started getting into love, not how to get relationships. Though technically, dating (whether as friends or boyfriends/girlfriends) is a prerequisite to loving, so my statement still stands.

Nooooo I was just adding how I felt about the topic. I would have quoted you if I was replying to you..! Dating isn't a prerequisite to loving though--the latter can happen without the former, although I'll give it to you that love generally happens as a result of dating and before that it's usually just "liking" someone in a way beyond friendship.

Yes, that's correct. I believe girls shouldn't ask guys out because the success rate is very low. Gender roles are still relevant and powerful. Yes, there will be exception, but can you honestly say that girls ask guys out just as much as guys ask girls out? Not even close.

But you believe "it is a lottery, but you will eventually find 'the one'." So why are you saying girls shouldn't ask people out if you're supposed to take chances at every turn? Besides, again, by working under gender roles you are likewise condoning them, which contributes to them never going away. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure gender roles are stupid and should disappear, and not following their rules is a way to work toward that.

Appearance is like a catalyst for dating. Yes, I agree that it does not matter matter in the end, but you do need it to initiate relationships. The example you mentioned is an exception to the rule. Personality can overcome appearance, but that is extremely rare. And personality is not something that can change easily. It's not a surprise to "let yourself go" because at that point of the relationship, physical appearance no longer matters. If the partner leaves because of a physical change in the other partner, then it's not really love.

No you don't. If a person judges off of appearance to begin with, they are shallow. From a survival standpoint I can see where it comes from--if you see a person with a gun then it makes sense to be wary. But to say "that person is not dating material" because they aren't super attractive is bad. In addition, you shouldn't try lying to a person about anything about yourself--kinda like what the above poster said. It's better to be the best person you can be, instead of being the best "someone else" you can be.

As for how you suggest to go about dating... I won't repeat myself and instead say I salute you sir. Good luck to you in your approach to this kinda thing.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Lux Aeterna

[Phoenix Wright]

Lux, you're kidding yourself if you don't think attractiveness is important in an initial setting or meet (and although less important, still notable in a relationship later on).

[Lux Aeterna]

Physical attractiveness? Not important. Personality being attractive? Extremely important. It's not right to judge based off of appearance in the romance sort of setting, but if their personality is shit it's not worth your time unless all you wanna do is have sex. In which case, good luck to you.

[Nanami Touko]

Lux, that might be the way you think, but I think the rest of humanity wants a slight bit of attractiveness in their partner. To say that physical attractiveness is something that's 100% unimportant is a bit naive. It's not the most important thing, definitely not, and someone doesn't need to be movie star level to be attractive, but for it to not matter at all is something I doubt many people will agree with you on.

I mean you're free to think the way you think but stating it so matter of factually is a bit silllllllyyyyyyyyy.

and of course, physical attractiveness is subjective to everyone, but it still has to be there in the eyes of most people.

Edited July 24, 2013 by I have opinions

[mewyeon]

On the topic of attractiveness, what has been everyone's experience with the whole 'the more I get to know someone over the time, the more/less attractive they become'?

[Nightmare]

Uhhh, yeah Lux. Physical attractiveness is actually really important to many people, but that's not to say that a good personality isn't important either. I, personally, am not the saintly kind of being to be able to find myself in a Beauty and the Beast situation. I'm greedy, and I'd want both, whenever I actually care enough to get into a relationship.

[Lux Aeterna]

@Trent: I don't see how saying attractiveness is not important is naive. Attractiveness is a nice factor, sure, but it shouldn't factor into any sort of decision-making. I'm saying that if you automatically declare "that person is not dating material" because they don't look attractive to you, you're possibly preventing yourself from having a great relationship with the person.

If your concern is that there'll be no passion because there's no attraction, well, that depends on the person. To answer mewyeon's question, I've definitely found people more attractive the more I got to know them, but maybe that changes for some people? Point being that even your initial perception of a person's appearance can change. So appearance really isn't that important if you tend to find people attractive after getting to know them anyway.

But, since it may look like I was trying to tell you people how you should judge, let me rephrase: your chances of finding a happy relationship are higher if appearances don't matter to you. In the end I guess it's all a matter of opinion. I'm not saying people who say physical attraction is important to them are wrong (after all this is all about opinion and I hope I don't have to prefix everything I say with "I believe"), just that I disagree with the viewpoint.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Lux Aeterna

[Nanami Touko]

How should it not be part of any decision making? Are you saying that people should be able to overlook any and all physical abnormalities, or things they find displeasing? Do you think it's simple for people to disregard their personal preferences in regards to looks just because there's a chance that person's personality could be the most compatible on the planet?

Once again, if you're able to think that way, then by all means, continue to do so. Thinking it easy for others to think likewise is silly.

Of course, one shouldn't be shallow. Don't set the standard so high that it'll never be met. But to not have a standard at all, I find, is probably impossible for a lot of people.

your chances of finding a happy relationship are higher if appearances don't matter to you.

this is super duper silly

Edited July 24, 2013 by I have opinions

[Lux Aeterna]

Nonono not at all! I'm not saying people should do anything, I'm saying it's the ideal. : ( Do you disagree that it'd be for the best that people don't have any preferences when it comes to appearances? I'm not saying people should force themselves to be that way--it's ridiculously hard to change your way of thinking. The only reason I'm saying it's "better" is because it means more people would be able to have happy relationships, since physical features wouldn't factor. It's a simple truism that the fewer standards a person has, the easier it is to find a relationship, but if something conflicts with those standards, they won't be happy, right? So if the person didn't have a standard when it came to appearances, less would get in the way of happiness.

I'm not even trying to say I don't have my preferences when it comes to looks, e.g. I love wavy hair on girls, and I love green eyes. Stuff like that--I'm just saying that doesn't factor in my decisions and I don't judge anyone if they don't meet that.

And given your edit, you definitely disagree, so can you explain why?

[Nanami Touko]

I just find it realistically impossible for people to not care about looks at least somewhat. Even if it's 1%, and the other 99% is personality in their perfect someone, it still has to be there.

Sure, it's ideal, but why discuss something hypothetically unattainable? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Oh well.

Edited July 24, 2013 by I have opinions

[Nightmare]

Besides, it sounds like a bad ideal to me. Make everyone lose their standards and be the same? Besides like, the myriad of other problems that would come with it. Yeah, not my idea of an ideal.

[Lux Aeterna]

Maybe you're right--maybe it is impossible for looks to not matter to a person. I'm only saying it becomes a problem if it becomes a factor in decision-making. If you look at a person and say "nope, no can do" because of how they look, that's a problem. But if it's the 1:99 ratio you mentioned, that sort of situation would never happen. Besides, perfection is the pursuit thereof. It's a goal to work toward even if it can't be attained. I'm more or less agreeing the ideal I laid out is asymptotic in nature, but that we should strive toward it.

EDIT: And no, Nightmare, I'm not saying let go of your standards entirely. I'm saying try to get rid of the ones that relate to appearance. If you thought I was saying we shouldn't judge anything about a person at all, you misunderstood. Personality is totally important to assess, among other factors.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Lux Aeterna

[Nanami Touko]

I don't see how it's a problem. Like nightmare said, different people have different standards, and they'll eventually find someone that falls into their ratio of physical attractiveness to personality. Personally, I wouldn't want to be with someone I didn't find at least slightly attractive, no matter their personality. I'm sure many people would agree it's part of their decision making process. and I wasn't being literal when I said perfect person, I realize perfection is impossible and even if it was possible, that would be boring.

Guess we'll just agree to disagree :P

look at this instead it's funny.

[Nightmare]

Besides, perfection is the pursuit thereof. It's a goal to work toward even if it can't be attained.

Wouldn't perfection, in this case, mean both physical and mental perfection?

EDIT: And no, Nightmare, I'm not saying let go of your standards entirely. I'm saying try to get rid of the ones that relate to appearance. If you thought I was saying we shouldn't judge anything about a person at all, you misunderstood. Personality is totally important to assess, among other factors.

And if you thought I made that comment outside the context of attractiveness, you misunderstood.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Nightmare

[Lux Aeterna]

Mm, I'm just saying it might be harder, but surely with all the people on this planet there's one person for nearly everyone. But agreeing to disagree, I can do that.

But then how would everyone be the same, Nightmare? We're still different people even if we don't try based off of attractiveness.

Oh well. I'm getting a little fatigued and starting to feel like this is circling so here, let me contribute something as well and be off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y4cQEEyuTw

(and i am a dumb so i forgot how to make that a video)