League of Legends

[peener weener]

Uol is looking like m5 of old, kinda

[Chastlily]

Why hello everyone o/

I do play League of Legends on EUW (Gold II previously, currently inactive in ranked) so if anyone wanna play just ask :p

My IGN's the same as here

[Raven]

I can add you later when I get home from work (IGN: VanguardRaven). I too don't play much ranked, but I think I could have made Gold this season if I'd put some time and effort into it.

[Xander]

What is the obsession silver players have with talking shit in normal games? Are they jealous when they see a higher elo player, or are they insecure because they're bad at the game, or...?

[eclipse]

Chat-off, apply to chat!

It could be one of many things.

- "Well the guys in stream do it too!!"

- You're behind a screen name, and it's not that hard to create another one should the first one get banned. Thus, it's pretty easy to forget about the other person behind the character.

- Some people don't handle stress/blame very well

- Other stuff that hasn't been mentioned here

Either way, dealing with other people became too much of a headache, which is why I haven't touched the game in a while.

[MercyWalk]

What is the obsession silver players have with talking shit in normal games? Are they jealous when they see a higher elo player, or are they insecure because they're bad at the game, or...?

i do it as friendly banter with my friends but they sometimes go overboard and drag in the randoms as well

[Raven]

What is the obsession silver players have with talking shit in normal games? Are they jealous when they see a higher elo player, or are they insecure because they're bad at the game, or...?

From what I read, there's a lot of Plats shit talking Diamonds too. It happens in every division. It just so happens Bronze and Silver are the biggest.

[BK-201]

Well me and Xander played a game resulting in a Silver intentionally feeding. I think a lot of it is their mentality to playing and it's more pervasive the worse someone is generally. Like if you have experience with the game, you can understand mistakes and things can be rationalized so you see the whole process. In Silver, a lot of it is just looking at something bad happening and trying to blame it on something without understanding why.

Also, fundamental attribution bias is always relevant: People tend to attribute others' failures to the person, and they tend to attribute their failures to external reasons. Often teammates are a convenient external reason.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

What is the obsession silver players have with talking shit in normal games? Are they jealous when they see a higher elo player, or are they insecure because they're bad at the game, or...?

this is going to be incredibly tasteless of me considering my absence from these forums but if i recall, you would constantly beg me to play with you solely for the sake of teaching you how to get diamond and nothing more. i know i never taught you but that post of yours is so rude considering your past desires to get better. grats and all but remember, you were once one of these people you're complaining about.

[Raven]

Well me and Xander played a game resulting in a Silver intentionally feeding. I think a lot of it is their mentality to playing and it's more pervasive the worse someone is generally. Like if you have experience with the game, you can understand mistakes and things can be rationalized so you see the whole process. In Silver, a lot of it is just looking at something bad happening and trying to blame it on something without understanding why.

Also, fundamental attribution bias is always relevant: People tend to attribute others' failures to the person, and they tend to attribute their failures to external reasons. Often teammates are a convenient external reason.

Lemme rephrase:

You shouldn't tar a whole division with the same brush just because some Silver people are assholes. You have assholes in every division, so it's not really healthy to talk down on a whole division just because you have bad games with some of them.

As a Silver 1, I thought Xander's comments on Silvers was kinda rude and disrespectful.

[peener weener]

What is the obsession silver players have with talking shit in normal games? Are they jealous when they see a higher elo player, or are they insecure because they're bad at the game, or...?

This is a pretty dumb post lol. Nobody's jealous of elo or insecure about it. Literally nobody i've ever met. I mean, a lot of shit-talking about it happens (e.g. /all yi is bronze gg), but at the end of the day it's just a videogame.

Also, people in Silver raging and talking shit has less to do with the fact that they are in silver and more the reasom they are in silver. Do you understand what im saying? You have cause and effect mixed up. Obviously there's tonnes of toxicity in higher elos too but i'd say it's more prevalent in lower elos (as it usually comes with this whole shitty mentality that obstructs progress).

Edit: though reading this thread one would think people really /are/ insecure about their elo lmao. In both ends of the pool

Edited December 23, 2014 by fuccboi

[Psych]

I was Silver, but between decay and bad games at the start of the season I'm Bronze 1. I realize the reason I'm in bronze is because I have weak mechanical skill which is honestly compounded by my 120 ping on the EUW server.

god i'm never going to get over 30 ping and faster DG servers

I also have issues properly judging someone's threat level, so often times I'll get into fights I can't win or not trade back with someone I could probably kill. I'm too passive in roles I'm less experienced with like top and mid and too aggressive with bot lane when I end up not having my lane partner follow something.

But I have very good objective play and and much better at tactical things. So because I can't really win lanes enough to continue that into late game, I can't really rise in rank. I also get ranked anxiety and never play but that's something else

I have friends who do play ranked and are mid gold. When we play in normals they might be slightly better than me, but I can hold my own. And yet I realize they are god awful at objectives. No one wards, no one gets sweepers, no one wants to go for this free dragon. They're never going to get much higher than plat if they keep playing the way they do. So there I am trying to ward dragon, getting caught by the much better mechanical gold players we've been matched against since I'm the only warding and we have no vision.

It ends up making me really dislike the game since I'm putting a lot of effort in to try and win a normal game and they just see it as try-harding and end up winning simply because they have better mechanics.

Dawngate was a perfect game for me though, because since I had lower ping, I could do more, and while characters did need good mechanics, you had a lot of room in things like no mana which honestly mana is just bad design. You also suddenly had 4 more objectives on the map, so I could gank someone, get a kill, and instantly realize something else I could go for. I got to Diamond at my highest in that game, all because more objectives makes it even easier to play an objective based game.

[CT075]

What's with the obsession diamond players have with complaining about lower divs? Does their superiority complex physically prevent them from just ignoring it, or what?

Edited December 24, 2014 by CT075

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

yeah, it's pretty much a superiority complex. i like my diamond/plat friends but i usually prefer to play with my bronze/silver/some gold friends, they're so chill at least when i'm playing with them.

Edited December 24, 2014 by BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER

[Xander]

I admit I may have gone overboard with my comment but even when I was a lower rank I Never talked trash in all chat at the end of a game or whined and then intentionally fed after losing a lane, which I've noticed an influx of in my recent normals games with people on my friends list.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Xander

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

doesn't mean this gives you a reason to talk down and bash on silver players just because of bad recent experiences. i know some chill as fuck silver players that i've gone drinking with.

"never look down on people unless you're helping them up"

[peener weener]

maybe i just play with people whose lives don't revolve around league of legends but i've just. i've never had these problems. and i play with people in low diamond and all the way to bronze v. wtf

edit: oh well there was one time i was invited to a game with a bunch of people i didn't really know by a good friend of mine. there was this diamond guy and he just totally flipped his shit, like it was something i'd never seen before. he raged at me to hell and back. i just ended up leaving the voice call and telling my friend his friends are crazy. he pretty much agreed and we left them and played a couple games and had a blast

Edited December 24, 2014 by fuccboi

[BK-201]

I was Silver, but between decay and bad games at the start of the season I'm Bronze 1. I realize the reason I'm in bronze is because I have weak mechanical skill which is honestly compounded by my 120 ping on the EUW server.

god i'm never going to get over 30 ping and faster DG servers

I also have issues properly judging someone's threat level, so often times I'll get into fights I can't win or not trade back with someone I could probably kill. I'm too passive in roles I'm less experienced with like top and mid and too aggressive with bot lane when I end up not having my lane partner follow something.

But I have very good objective play and and much better at tactical things. So because I can't really win lanes enough to continue that into late game, I can't really rise in rank. I also get ranked anxiety and never play but that's something else

I have friends who do play ranked and are mid gold. When we play in normals they might be slightly better than me, but I can hold my own. And yet I realize they are god awful at objectives. No one wards, no one gets sweepers, no one wants to go for this free dragon. They're never going to get much higher than plat if they keep playing the way they do. So there I am trying to ward dragon, getting caught by the much better mechanical gold players we've been matched against since I'm the only warding and we have no vision.

It ends up making me really dislike the game since I'm putting a lot of effort in to try and win a normal game and they just see it as try-harding and end up winning simply because they have better mechanics.

Dawngate was a perfect game for me though, because since I had lower ping, I could do more, and while characters did need good mechanics, you had a lot of room in things like no mana which honestly mana is just bad design. You also suddenly had 4 more objectives on the map, so I could gank someone, get a kill, and instantly realize something else I could go for. I got to Diamond at my highest in that game, all because more objectives makes it even easier to play an objective based game.

East Coast has horrible ping and I don't have particularly good mechanics. There are many other factors you have to evaluate and people are rarely fair when evaluating themselves. You don't need to win lane to climb far in earlier divisons provided you are decent at teamfighting as long as you aren't coming out with a ridiculously large deficit.

If you are getting caught out with warding then it's a fault with your play. Even if you want to blame objective play on them for not warding, getting caught out is your problem. You have to adapt to your situation. If your teammates aren't warding, then you need to be conservative in warding rather than overly aggressive.

Mana is not bad design, there is no justification provided. Mana provides the ability to limit a champion's power at various stages in the game by balancing mana and mana cost as well as providing another parameter to adjust. The less parameters something has to adjust, the less versatility you have in limiting its power. While it might be simpler in some ways to balance champions lacking mana, simpler often leads to less flexibility in what you design.

[Psych]

Mana is anti-fun for the player. It's something that's simply a limiter on the character's power level. It's possible to simply lower the character's power level and remove the resource.

It's not like this is a problem either. Dawngate removes everyone's resource unless it's actually important, and gives longer cooldowns of 3-4 seconds as trade off. League's handwave justifications of some people having resources and some not leads to immensely different power levels between mana based champs and manaless champs.

I can guarentee if you took people like Vel'koz, Azir, or Master Yi and turned them manaless their playstyle wouldn't change in the slightest, and they probably wouldn't even get a large buff out of it. New champs have much lower mana costs now compared to older champs. Riot is realizing mana isn't fun. No one wants to end up just sitting there not able to use abilities. That's not fun. Using abilities is fun, and having a fun game gets more players. Between manaless creep and power creep, yes you do get ridiculous things like pre-nerf Yasuo and I'm still not convinced Rek'sai and Kalista aren't broken. But this year alone we've had 2 out of 6 champs as manaless, and I'd say the other 3 or 4 do not have heavy costs.

I guarantee you'll never see something like Ashabel (http://www.moba-champion.com/shapers/ashabel) in League. Imagine old AP Nidalee who's spear is on a 3 second cooldown. And yet you have a balanced champ due to her reliance on skillshots and immobility and poor durability. There are way more oppressive people than Ashabel and it's not because of a lack of resource.

Riot would consider her kit probably toxic and unfair but hey guess what? She has a 3 second ability with no resource? Guess what, you don't have to worry about running out of mana and can probably out trade her.

[BK-201]

Mana is anti-fun for the player. It's something that's simply a limiter on the character's power level. It's possible to simply lower the character's power level and remove the resource.

It's not like this is a problem either. Dawngate removes everyone's resource unless it's actually important, and gives longer cooldowns of 3-4 seconds as trade off. League's handwave justifications of some people having resources and some not leads to immensely different power levels between mana based champs and manaless champs.

I can guarentee if you took people like Vel'koz, Azir, or Master Yi and turned them manaless their playstyle wouldn't change in the slightest, and they probably wouldn't even get a large buff out of it. New champs have much lower mana costs now compared to older champs. Riot is realizing mana isn't fun. No one wants to end up just sitting there not able to use abilities. That's not fun. Using abilities is fun, and having a fun game gets more players. Between manaless creep and power creep, yes you do get ridiculous things like pre-nerf Yasuo and I'm still not convinced Rek'sai and Kalista aren't broken. But this year alone we've had 2 out of 6 champs as manaless, and I'd say the other 3 or 4 do not have heavy costs.

I guarantee you'll never see something like Ashabel (http://www.moba-champion.com/shapers/ashabel) in League. Imagine old AP Nidalee who's spear is on a 3 second cooldown. And yet you have a balanced champ due to her reliance on skillshots and immobility and poor durability. There are way more oppressive people than Ashabel and it's not because of a lack of resource.

Riot would consider her kit probably toxic and unfair but hey guess what? She has a 3 second ability with no resource? Guess what, you don't have to worry about running out of mana and can probably out trade her.

Dying is anti fun. Getting your power lowered is anti fun. Anti fun means absolutely nothing. This is completely incoherent. How about cooldowns? It's possible to simply lower the ability's power and then remove cooldowns. I hate the argument of anti fun because it's used outside of its intended scope. You can validate almost any change by saying anti fun. URF mode was considered the most fun mode but obviously it wasn't balanced.

No it doesn't. Explain why Katarina isn't a popular pick in pro play but things like Xerath are. There is no inherent power difference simply from the basis of having a resource versus not having a resource. This is just you understanding the relative power levels of champions poorly.

Yes they would. Master Yi not having his Alpha Strike gated would be largely problematic. Also if you overtune the cooldown you are left with him being unable to perform his role in the jungle due to hardgated clear speeds rather than managated clear speeds. Scenario 1: Master Yi with mana is able to quickly complete his first few camps without mana issues (assuming golems up route) and this gradually becomes limited. Scenario 2: Master Yi is limited from the start in his ability to clear past the first camp. Mana provides more flexibility. There are plenty of other champions who are mana gated but not cooldown gated so their ability to perform a task is given by their ability to keep a mana pool rather than removed entirely. Ziggs is a great example of someone who relies on relatively low cooldowns but mana gating so he cannot permanently push a wave into oblivion. Changing mana removes the ability of these champions to complete their task or else totally imbalances the champions.

It doesn't matter if you can still produce a game off of champions lacking mana. You are biased because you prefer Dawngate and are making gestures to champions but LoL already has many champions in place that rely on the existence of mana to have a spot. Just because there exist champions that lack mana (surprise, LoL has them as well) does not mean those designs are optimal in the context of LoL. You are pulling champions into a vacuum to justify their existence when this is not a legitimate way to evaluate a champion's powers. It's all in context which you've completely removed.

[peener weener]

Stop. This is way off-topic. Make a thread about this or about dawngate or whatever or even take it to pms, i dont give a shit.

[CT075]

this is completely on topic, it's discussing how mana factors into the game design of league of legends

[peener weener]

then why are we discussing dawngate?

[CT075]

It's dawngate in relation to league?

[BK-201]

It's nothing different than referencing Dota's turning rates in regards to champion balance. Psych gets an idea from Dawngate and thinks it would be good in LoL and I disagree with that. The discussion is still focused on LoL.