Magic Emblem

[Shun]

Would you play a fire emblem game that had nothing but magic classes? Or do you think it'd get too repetitive?

Personally, I'd find it fun if it incorporated things from other FEs e.g different mage classes (light/dark/other elements), maybe a lord that could use swords and tomes instead of an MU(i don't really like the mu feature...)

Idk, after seeing the potential for magic users and the decent to excellent plotlines for most of them in FE10 I just feel like the idea had potential.

But yeah, would you play it? Feel free to bring up any ideas that would make it even slightly worthwhile...

[Tables]

I'd like the next FE to make magic a bigger part. Awakening already did to some degree, but it could easily go further. As in have magic be roughly on par with normal equipment. Have three to four very different types of magic (e.g. some is perhaps all close range only, like some kind of touch magic, another one or two are balanced but one has high hit low mt and the other is the opposite, a third is high crit like thunder, another could be special effects like dark currently has etc.), and a similar number of magic classes as physical classes with varied stats and using varied types of magic.

This is all really a bit of a pipe dream, since there's nothing really wrong with magic currently, but I think it'd be nice.

[Shun]

With magic being a main focal point I suppose the game would change rather drastically.Touch magic sounds like it could be interesting, an enhancement of the dancer class if you will. Raises stats, move, etc temporarily.

Close range magic would probably just end up like crossbows did.

Maybe bringing character only magic back such as Thani, Aura, Excalibur. Sounds a little broken though..

[X-Naut]

Unless Resistance varied more between magic classes like Defense does for physical classes, then it would be monotonous and boring.

That's not to say the current system can't be improved. Magic on par with normal equipment could work provided the baseline for poor Res was raised above zero. Maybe then we could have better class bases for mages! And split anima magics could be more diverse with dual-rank tomes, which require ranks in two different magic types to use but are more powerful and/or have interesting twists.

[Shun]

I think we all know ways to improve the current FEs. I'm just theorizing a small spinoff type game or something.

Dual rank tomes gives me an idea for linking 2 spell tomes together. Ahh, that'd be fun, animating those would be interesting in itself.

Also magic knight would be a great class edition to the series in general, give those levin swords and such some usefulness.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Shun

[dondon151]

all magic systems in existing fire emblem games have this problem where all the spells are just slightly different versions of each other

[Klokinator]

That sounds exactly like this and this.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Project Chaos-ome

[The Void]

all magic systems in existing fire emblem games have this problem where all the spells are just slightly different versions of each other

Even Gaiden?

Edited August 14, 2013 by The Void

[Shun]

all magic systems in existing fire emblem games have this problem where all the spells are just slightly different versions of each other

Since it's a problem that means it can be fixed. Swords, lances, and axes all have a blade but that doesn't make them the same as I'm sure you know.

That sounds exactly like this and this.

Not really what I had in mind but close.

[Phoenix Wright]

IS has started to make magic somewhat boring. No more light magic and their respective classes (Bishops could have had the same use in Awakening as they did in Sacred Stones, and would have been more useful during maingame). No more magic triangle.

I'd like to see more elements being worked with. Anima would have the four elements; dark would have dark, negative status ailments (-10 Avd and whatnot); light would have light, positive status ailments. There'd be two types of magic per element for anima, and I guess the holy weapon would infuse all four or something. They'd all have a long-range type of magic, too.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Phoenix Wright

[dondon151]

Since it's a problem that means it can be fixed.

since when can all problems be fixed? you can't differentiate magic sufficiently without making them into alternate versions of physical weaponry. let me illustrate:

IS has started to make magic somewhat boring. No more light magic and their respective classes (Bishops could have had the same use in Awakening as they did in Sacred Stones, and would have been more useful during maingame). No more magic triangle.

light magic has always been a worse version of anima magic. no one cared about the magic triangle.

I'd like to see more elements being worked with. Anima would be have the four elements;

elements did jack shit in FE9 and FE10 where they supposedly mattered. specialty weapons like excalibur and thani were cool and all, but generic weapons will just end up being a contest of which element has the highest MT at a given rank. always use that element. you know, there's no reason to use thunder in FE10 when fire hit harder.

dark would have dark, negative status ailments (-10 Avd and whatnot);

fire emblem isn't a game where token status penalties to enemies matter. for the player, this applied status may as well not exist. for the enemy, it's a huge boon.

so that's why magic in fire emblem has difficulty being super unique and exotic. there are very few effects that the player would even care to employ in this kind of strategy game.

[BrightBow]

I wish I would get a penny every time someone complains about the lack of the magic triangle in Awakening.

Seriously, when did the Triangle ever matter? All offensive magic has the same utility of attacking enemies with low Res.

And any kind of special effects are few and far between. So how could you possible miss that feature?

Even in Gaiden, White Magic was just Staffs+Nosferatu while all the other spells that made people fall down were just Black Magic.

Edited August 14, 2013 by BrightBow

[Phoenix Wright]

i don't know man jesus i simply agreed that the magic system is really bland so i said the first couple things that came to mind that might make it a fresh experience. i'm replaying FE8 and 7 currently, and I must say I also don't really give a damn about the magic triangle (but I do really like light magic, just a preference. dondon is right about light magic otherwise).

Edited August 14, 2013 by Phoenix Wright

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I kinda want to note that Magic in Fire Emblem is just like Javelin that hits Res

So, yeah

Also 80% of enemies are Physical anyway

[Shun]

since when can all problems be fixed? you can't differentiate magic sufficiently without making them into alternate versions of physical weaponry. let me illustrate:

All problems? It's a video game, and magic is just one of the mechanics that FE has. Maybe it's because I'm new to the series that my imagination for the game is a bit wild and naive but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to improve it. This is all theoretical anyway.

elements did jack shit in FE9 and FE10 where they supposedly mattered. specialty weapons like excalibur and thani were cool and all, but generic weapons will just end up being a contest of which element has the highest MT at a given rank. always use that element. you know, there's no reason to use thunder in FE10 when fire hit harder.

IS doesn't give you a good reason to use thunder I agree, but thunder usually had a critical hit rate. Combine that with forging and it could become useful no matter how menial.

I kinda want to note that Magic in Fire Emblem is just like Javelin that hits Res

So, yeah

Also 80% of enemies are Physical anyway

Okay???????????

You guys make it sound like having an imagination is a bad thing. Mages don't have much durability and magic is severly lacking and bland in these games. That doesn't mean it has to be for future ones. I'm not saying that anyone important is going to see this measly thread but it'd be fun imo to expand on the magic system in FE while still staying true to the Fire Emblem series, even if it is amongst myself ourselves. If you don't agree that's fine but giving reason's as to why magic has failed to be "super unique and exotic" in past games isn't really the point of this topic.

[dondon151]

i don't know man jesus i simply agreed that the magic system is really bland so i said the first couple things that came to mind that might make it a fresh experience.

i didn't mean to make an example of you. i'm sorry if i kind of did. you very conveniently touched on a few of the "great ideas" that would improve FE's magic system, so i thought your post would be a good one to pick apart (even if you were just pulling out ideas).

[Espinosa]

TearRing Saga has a good idea how to make magic work (FE5 too I guess?) but the users themselves could use a bit more mobility.

[Constable Reggie]

I like the magic triangle system concept, even if the execution has been less than stellar the past few games. I really disliked 13's system for 2 reasons; it removed all sense of uniquity of the tomes that past games like 4-8 had, and the animations were fucking boring. Seriously, if you want to make magic awesome, give them the over-the-top animations from the 2d era because those were awesome as hell. In 13 they're all just like, blobs or small bolts or some shit.

[dondon151]

TearRing Saga has a good idea how to make magic work (FE5 too I guess?) but the users themselves could use a bit more mobility.

i think this more has to do with the fact that the tomes are locked to certain characters, because tomes like thunder, lightning, fire, wind, etc. are boring. however, the AoE targeting is a useful differentiating mechanic.

and then, of course, 10 chapters into the game they give you an 18 MT, 6 wlv tome that negates counterattacks and is usable by anyone with wind magic rank.

[Phoenix Wright]

i didn't mean to make an example of you. i'm sorry if i kind of did. you very conveniently touched on a few of the "great ideas" that would improve FE's magic system, so i thought your post would be a good one to pick apart (even if you were just pulling out ideas).

don't worry about it. you were pretty much correct, especially on the negative-positive status ailments, which is why i didn't contest anything further.

and for what's it worth i would still like to see the four elements in a FE. not because it would do anything in terms of gameplay, but done right, i think the animations for a spell like "earthquake" would be pretty awesome to see.

I like the magic triangle system concept, even if the execution has been less than stellar the past few games. I really disliked 13's system for 2 reasons; it removed all sense of uniquity of the tomes that past games like 4-8 had, and the animations were fucking boring. Seriously, if you want to make magic awesome, give them the over-the-top animations from the 2d era because those were awesome as hell. In 13 they're all just like, blobs or small bolts or some shit.

it's kind of a bummer that except for the initial playthrough of a fire emblem, i haven't turned animations on since FE8. the game NEEDS over-the-top animations to make people actually want to see them. seeing some dude on a horse run over to an enemy and give a quick slash is boring. now, seeing some dude with a giant axe spin around like a goddamn tornado is a sight to behold.

it's really hard to make an animation for magic boring, in my opinion, but IS did a top-notch job with it in Awakening.

[Constable Reggie]

Hell, even Fe9-10 had some pretty damn awesome animations (rexbolt anyone), even if their lower rank ones were a bit lackluster, so we know they're capable of doing it in 3d.

[Klokinator]

The fact that all the magic tomes in FEA had the exact same animation, albeit recolored, was the exact reason I turned off the animations and never looked back.

[Ein]

I don't know how they can make magic more diverse. They could just go the physical weapon route and have a weak tome, slightly stronger tome, even more slightly stronger tome, legendary, killer, unit effective, brave, and so on but then it'd just be kind of same for both sides. Then again physical weapons have some dumb discrepancy too when it comes to what they get.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Ein

[Byte2222]

I feel like the classes are just as big a part of the problem as the weapons. There has been some variability but magic classes all usually boil down to "glass cannon" when matched against physical units and aren't worth using against other mages. I found FE13's physically durable but inaccurate dark mages a breath of fresh air and my imagination was running away with what hypothetical fast, high-res and otherwise weak Monks could do to them with WTA.

I did appreciate FE10's attempt to differentiate magic types with effectiveness bonuses, especially giving the strongest MT type the rarest bonus and vice versa. Too bad, though, that mages were crap in FE10, enemies had too much res, tomes were too expensive and the defensive types were really rare. At least they tried to do diversity.

[The Void]

The Magic Triangle is something FE can do without unless we get more mages in the party and in the enemy groups.