isetrh Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Thanks! I'll go with Kellam!Nah. I like Renewal. Theoretical question: would marrying Sumia be any good from an optimization standpoint? She's pretty good as a unit for a Gen 1, and you get two very fast proc-stack Dark Fliers out of it. Chrom ends up free to marry Maribelle or Olivia without causing Cynthia to need Henry. Edited September 9, 2014 by isetrh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Is Kellam a good father for Nah? Gamefaqs says he is, but... well, it's Gamefaqs... T Kellam!Nah's alright. She's a relic from the pre-release. +7 DEF makes her a nigh-unkillable brick for everything besides SR Apoth, so she can actually EP Tank fairly well. [she can't take Luna+ too well, so she starts faltering in SR apo, but can faceroller through NR] The extended one, Kellam!Nah!Morgan, is huge numbers but ultimately useless [unless you want to scare a frodo in streetpass by throwing something that legitimately has 80 DEF their way] Unrelated but... [spoiler=This is why you DON'T grind when your mind isn't fully on task...] ONE ETERNITY LATER. [Made Severa a Sniper to get her her Hit+20 [stahl passed Bowfaire because I didn't care]... except wait, Chrom's a Sniper too... >_>;; And it's SEVERA. Dodge queen extraordinaire. And no support ranks with Chrom + No Dual Guard+ means... weapon breaking 1 person takes forever.] Edited September 9, 2014 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Theoretical question: would marrying Sumia be any good from an optimization standpoint? She's pretty good as a unit for a Gen 1, and you get two very fast proc-stack Dark Fliers out of it. Chrom ends up free to marry Maribelle or Olivia without causing Cynthia to need Henry. Playing with a (mostly) full team? The pair's great, but it comes with inherent benching issues and for some reason seems to change a lot of pairs whenever I use it. Playing with a very small team? It's one of the best by far. Ingame though Avatar and Sumia seem to take forever to build support, so that's something you should be aware of. [Made Severa a Sniper to get her her Hit+20 [stahl passed Bowfaire because I didn't care]... except wait, Chrom's a Sniper too... >_>;; And it's SEVERA. Dodge queen extraordinaire. And no support ranks with Chrom + No Dual Guard+ means... weapon breaking 1 person takes forever.] Ha. Once I did something similar, but instead of the fort I tried to stand my ground on water (so I had room to retreat to). Someone boxed me in anyway, and Chrom was a GK who can't switch back onto a water tile, so I got pretty much the same effect. ...I wonder what happens if a unit who can't swim is paired with a unit who can, and the lead is defeated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetheTheRaptor Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Hello! I want to make a Female Self Insert Lunatic file as I have too many Male files. I already have MuXChrom, Lon'qu, Inigo and Henry, but I'd like 3rd gen Morgan. I generally run +Def -Lck, but I could try another Asset/Flaw this Luna run. I like Gerome a lot, so I thought Vaike!Gerome!Morgan to give Morgan good Str and Def. I'm okay with a 2nd gen Morgan, however. Whatever you guys think would work well. Or I like to have 2 avatar kids. I'm thinking marrying Sully, perhaps? Or Cherche. Or do you think I should keep my AvatarXSumia file? I like it (I'm making a battle save so I can get it back) but I feel like making another F!Avatar. Edited September 9, 2014 by LetheTheRaptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 That's... Kind of a lot of options. Do you mind narrowing down exactly what you'd like advice on a bit? I can help build a competent team for ingame/postgame/Apo (which of these are you going for here?), but I can't make aesthetic decisions, micromanage files, or provide "the best" team from scratch with no guidelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetheTheRaptor Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Sorry, I'm just wondering what 3rd gen M!Morgan I should use. I usually go for +Def in unatic, but I'm open to try a different one. I'm thinking marrying Gerome or Brady. Leaning towards Brady honestly now that I think about it. Is Lon'qu!Brady!Morgan good for Lunatic (I might try Apo. on this save at some point) so what's an asset/flaw for that pair? I don't want -Def. Edit: Ehh. I realized LQ!Brady!Morgan has -5 Def with -Str. That scares me in Lunatic. I'm now thinking a Lucina!Morgan? Is Aether worth it in Lunatic mode? Edited September 9, 2014 by LetheTheRaptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Maingame without grinding, 3rd Gen Morgan is borderline unusable (bar Lucina!Morgan with proper preparation) due to coming so late. Gerome and Brady are actually near the bottom of the barrel for this- since Cherche comes only one chapter before the children are available, and it'll take roughly 6-7 maps for her to reach S, you might be seeing Gerome around Cht.18. Brady can come at Cht.16 due to his Paralogue being pretty hard to access on the map (I think Inigo can speed it up a bit, but his Paralogue requires marrying Olivia, and the only way to do that quickly is with Chrom, which gimps Lucina's bases...). Even after that, it takes 6-7 more maps for the children to reach S with Avatar- you won't be seeing Morgan until practically endgame, and his stats will be pretty lackluster, too. Now, for Postgame, or if you're grinding at all, those two are pretty good- +Str/-anything but Skl or Lck Vaike!Gerome!Morgan is incredibly strong, and +Mag or Spd Brady!Morgan can perform very well too (but don't go +Def with him- Morgan will have a Def mod of 0. Yes, even with +Def, he gets 0). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetheTheRaptor Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Okay, I will be grinding, I don't like no grind runs. I realize that Magic>Weapons usually, but what's your personal opinion? I like Gerome and Brady evenly. I'm also considering Lucina!Morgan. Blue hair on her is adorable, and aether sounds amazing for Lunatic! Would Sumia!L!M or Olivia!L!M be better? Edited September 9, 2014 by LetheTheRaptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Maingame without grinding, 3rd Gen Morgan is borderline unusable (bar Lucina!Morgan with proper preparation) due to coming so late. Yeah, my Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan only became available for chapter 23 on my Justice Cabal playthrough. Still obscenely useful though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 ...I wonder what happens if a unit who can't swim is paired with a unit who can, and the lead is defeated? The support jumps to the nearest land tile. I know this from hours of messing up the Water Trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadam Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Well Aversa's Night is just a modified Nosferatu. Nosferatu is the more "signature" dark magic tome. Also, Aversa's night needs a very special type of unit to use, one with dark magic access and armsthrift, since it's got ten uses and can only be found on event tiles and in the barracks. To my knowledge (though there could be other reasonable combinations), only Severa, Donnel!Noire, Libra/Henry!Inigo and Gregor!Laurent can reasonably wield it of the non-Morgan kids. Obviously Aversa!Morgan (or really any Morgan) could use it too, but my point is mostly that it's nowhere near as available as Nosferatu is, so Nosferatu is the one that comes to mind. ok thanks, i understand now why nosferatu is more answered than aversa's night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Alright, just want to see if I can get some more opinions on my setup, I've changed a few things around. (+Skl/-Def)Robin@Berserker x Sumia!Lucina@Great Lord Sumia!Lucina!Morgan@Dark Flier x Ricken!Inigo@Sage Chrom!Cynthia@Dark Flier x Libra!Owain@Sage Lon'Qu!Brady@Sage x Henry!Nah@Valkyrie Donnel!Kjelle@Assassin x Stahl!Gerome@Warrior Vaike!Severa@Hero x Virion!Yarne@Berserker Gaius!Noire@Assassin x Gregor!Laurent@Berserker Is there any way I can possibly improve on this? Father/child combinations, pairings, class setups or otherwise. I'm liking magical Inigo and Nah, but I'm not really sure if I would get more use out of them or Frederick!Inigo, supported by Vaike!Nah. If I went with that I could give Henry to Brady and Ricken to Owain. I'm also thinking about the benefits of using Stahl!Severa and Vaike!Gerome instead of Vaike!Severa and Stahl!Gerome, just because both are pretty viable. Also, on Robin's Flaw/Asset, would +Spd/-Def be better than +Skl/-Def for what I'm doing? Morgan would lose 2 skill but gain 4 speed. She would also lose 2 Str but I won't be using that anyway. It would probably hurt Robin a bit, since he's going physical hard support but would the extra speed on Morgan be worth it? Edited September 9, 2014 by Diabeasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I have run into a bit of a dilemma with the Boots. Three different girls all want them, Olivia and my two 100% DS Snipers, FeMU and Noire. I can see four ways to deal with this: Give up on 100% DS for FeMU and make her a Paladin or something. I don't really like this one. Don't use Olivia. This would mean I could have fourth Staffbot. Have FeMU use Deliverer. She would have to drop Bowfaire. Let one of them have low Move. This seems like it could cause a problem, but I don't really know. What should I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Is there any way I can possibly improve on this? Father/child combinations, pairings, class setups or otherwise. I'm liking magical Inigo and Nah, but I'm not really sure if I would get more use out of them or Frederick!Inigo, supported by Vaike!Nah. If I went with that I could give Henry to Brady and Ricken to Owain. I'm also thinking about the benefits of using Stahl!Severa and Vaike!Gerome instead of Vaike!Severa and Stahl!Gerome, just because both are pretty viable. Also, on Robin's Flaw/Asset, would +Spd/-Def be better than +Skl/-Def for what I'm doing? Morgan would lose 2 skill but gain 4 speed. She would also lose 2 Str but I won't be using that anyway. It would probably hurt Robin a bit, since he's going physical hard support but would the extra speed on Morgan be worth it? After a point, most non-threshold based improvement isn't very clear cut and always involves a trade. There aren't any simple swaps you can make that will be outright better, but there are probably a few that might be good trades. If you really want to squeeze a little more out of your team, draw it up in Notepad and calculate all of your unit's stats for Apo after all boosts are applied (with and without Pairup in double Galepairs), as well as Hit/Avo and stuff. If there are any minor optimizations left to be made, that's the best way to find them. I have run into a bit of a dilemma with the Boots. Three different girls all want them, Olivia and my two 100% DS Snipers, FeMU and Noire. I can see four ways to deal with this: Give up on 100% DS for FeMU and make her a Paladin or something. I don't really like this one. Don't use Olivia. This would mean I could have fourth Staffbot. Have FeMU use Deliverer. She would have to drop Bowfaire. Let one of them have low Move. This seems like it could cause a problem, but I don't really know. I'd go with option 2 or 4, myself. Olivia's usefulness decreases the more combat pairs you have, so she's perfectly droppable on a 7/2 or 6/3 team. And 8 Mov isn't that big of a deal- I went for it on my 100% DS team because I could, but it's more of a secondary perk than a required ability (and can be more than made up for with Staffbots). Don't do something that will actually hurt your performance in battles, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thanks! I'll drop Olivia. I'll also take the advice you gave Diabeasty, but could you look at my team just in case there are any flaws you can see? Bolded parts are things I'm especially unsure of. Sumia @ Dark Flier LB/GF/TF/Luna/AS+2 Chrom @ Bow Knight LB/Agg/BF/DS+/Hit+20 Sumia!Lucina @ Dark Flier LB/GF/DS+/Aether/Luna Libra!Owain @ Sage LB/GF/TF/Vengeance/Agg Chrom!Cynthia @ Dark Flier LB/GF/TF/Aether/Luna Henry!Brady @ Sage LB/GF/TF/Vengeance/Agg +Skill -Def FeMU @ Sniper LB/GF/BF/Vengeance/AS+2 Gregor!Yarne @ Assassin LB/Agg/SF/AS+2/Str+2 Gaius!Noire @ Sniper LB/GF/BF/Vengeance/AS+2 +Skill -Def Gregor!Yarne!Morgan @ Assassin LB/GF/SF/Vengeance/Agg Lon'qu!Severa @ Wyvern Lord LB/GF/LF/Vengeance/AS+2 Vaike!Gerome @ Berserker LB/Agg/AF/AS+2/Str+2 Donnel!Kjelle @ Paladin LB/GF/SF/Luna/Astra Stahl!Inigo @ Warrior LB/GF/BF (maybe Axefaire?)/Luna/Agg Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Kellam!Nah's alright. She's a relic from the pre-release. +7 DEF makes her a nigh-unkillable brick for everything besides SR Apoth, so she can actually EP Tank fairly well. [she can't take Luna+ too well, so she starts faltering in SR apo, but can faceroller through NR] The extended one, Kellam!Nah!Morgan, is huge numbers but ultimately useless [unless you want to scare a frodo in streetpass by throwing something that legitimately has 80 DEF their way] You mean it's possible to face an enemy where Luna is more effective than Vengance can be!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thanks! I'll drop Olivia. I'll also take the advice you gave Diabeasty, but could you look at my team just in case there are any flaws you can see? Bolded parts are things I'm especially unsure of. Check Chrom's Hit, he might want to swap Hit+20 for Charm. Consider putting Luna on Noire (Vengeance on double Galepairs is a lot easier to use when only one unit has it). Consider giving Gerome Tantivity over Str+2. Also see if Inigo gains/loses any major thresholds from switching to Sniper (he'll gain +1/2 DS, Longbows and a bit of Hit, how many kills does he miss out on?). You mean it's possible to face an enemy where Luna is more effective than Vengance can be!? It's possible, but you'll need help from an enemy Rallybot (which are usually useless because the AI doesn't know how to use them) (90 Def is required to be more powerful than any Vengeance). For the highest Def, you need to go to Par.23 apply Barracks and Tonics beforehand (the clones keep those boosts), and then get a Rallybot to boost Morgan's stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Hey, do you have any tips for making good use of vengance on no-brave runs? I'm starting to get the feeling it gets more complicated on those runs... Edited September 10, 2014 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) I've realized that if I make Virion!Yarne (married to Hero Vaike!Severa) a Sniper and pair sniper/assassin Gerome with sniper/assassin Morgan I can have 100% dual strike with both pairs. My only question is really... Is it worth it for me to do that? I feel like I'd be losing out on a lot of power that way, and I'd have to move some of my pairings around. I would probably need to switch Inigo(Who is currently married to Morgan) to Frederick!Inigo to pair him with Donnel!Kjelle, or just have Kjelle as a Bride. Edited September 10, 2014 by Diabeasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Hey, do you have any tips for making good use of vengance on no-brave runs? I'm starting to get the feeling it gets more complicated on those runs... VV doesn't work anymore, but other than that it's exactly the same (though its boost will make the difference between KOing and not KOing much more often). I've realized that if I make Virion!Yarne (married to Hero Vaike!Severa) a Sniper and pair sniper/assassin Gerome with sniper/assassin Morgan I can have 100% dual strike with both pairs. My only question is really... Is it worth it for me to do that? I feel like I'd be losing out on a lot of power that way, and I'd have to move some of my pairings around. I would probably need to switch Inigo(Who is currently married to Morgan) to Frederick!Inigo to pair him with Donnel!Kjelle, or just have Kjelle as a Bride. Keep in mind that since you can theoretically have as many 100% DS pairs as you like, not going for either of these isn't actually wasting any abnormal potential. If you decide to make them be 100% DS pairs, do it because you want two 100% DS pairs in your team, not because these two pairs are good candidates for 100% DS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Check Chrom's Hit, he might want to swap Hit+20 for Charm. Consider putting Luna on Noire (Vengeance on double Galepairs is a lot easier to use when only one unit has it). Consider giving Gerome Tantivity over Str+2. Also see if Inigo gains/loses any major thresholds from switching to Sniper (he'll gain +1/2 DS, Longbows and a bit of Hit, how many kills does he miss out on?).Thanks! Chrom has 238 Hit with Charm and a +15 forge. Could you remind me what the important thresholds are besides 220?Makes sense. Is there any particular reason why Morgan should be the one to have Vengeance instead of Noire? Tantivy is a great idea! I didn't think of that one. Thanks! He hits 219 without it though, so it would only matter if the pair is taking on bosses. Which it probably could. Figuring out how many kills Inigo misses will take a lot of math, and I probably need some experience to know which enemies he ends up fighting. Fortunately his father and inheritance don't change either way. I did some math and noticed that if Kjelle takes AS+2 gets 69 Speed and a point of DS in both front and back (from 93/94 to 94/95). Would this be worth it? I noticed that I did my DS calculations wrong the first time. The Chrom!Cynthia x Henry!Brady and Lon'qu!Severa x Vaike!Gerome pairs are both 1 Skill short of the next DS point up. Brady has two options to reach 95/96 instead of 94/95 DS with the bonus of getting 75 Speed. He could switch dads from Henry to Lon'qu and take Luna instead of Vengeance. Severa would take Virion. I'm sure I could find something else to do with Henry in this case. Henry/Libra!Brady could also trade TF for AS+2 to hit the same thresholds without giving up Vengeance or Lon'qu!Severa. Assuming Lon'qu!Severa, Gerome could get 93 DS instead of 92 by taking Henry. It is possible to get to those DS thresholds on both pairs if I do Henry!Gerome, Libra!Brady with AS+2 instead of TF, and Ricken!Owain. Are any of those three options worth it? Sorry for the long post. Edited September 11, 2014 by isetrh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Hit thresholds before WTD and above 220 are 228 (Helswath Berserkers), 235 (NS), 239 (Invincisorc), 248 (Thronie), and 257 (Anna). Anna can be removed from her Throne though. So your Chrom will be pretty much fine except for two enemies. When Noire's up front, she has an Agg support so she needs the higher, more reliable boost from Vengeance less. Since your Kjelle is primarily a 1-range unit, I wouldn't worry about being able to double Thronie too much. If you do want to take All+2, it might go better over a Faire than Astra. Generally it isn't worth it to remove something useful for All+2 just for 1% of DS, unless that bumps you up to 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Thanks! I will give Chrom Charm, Noire Luna, Kjelle both Astra and SF, and be less quick to shove AS+2 into skill sets. Edited September 11, 2014 by isetrh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRei Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Okay, recently decided to switch my final file from Avatar x Lissa to Avatar x Lucina, so now I need some help deciding on where to go with Owain's father. I always have the most trouble trying to come up with a father for him, since most if not all of Lissa's supports are good, and Owain's father support doesn't strike out potential fathers in the same way Inigo's do. In the end, he'll be paired with Severa, so she'll be the lead unit with him supporting, but I do want him to be able to take down enemies to make use of his Galeforce and make the pairing a beast to be proud of. So what are some pros/cons and better fathers for him? Only ones off the table really are Avatar and Gregor. Bonus points if it's good father from both a gameplay standpoint and a story/support standpoint. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Owain's ideal fathers are Ricken, Libra, and sometimes Henry (Henry is just as good as the first two and sometimes marginally better but in much higher demand). If you're pairing him with Severa, you'll want to use Ricken!Severa or Virion!Severa (Virion!Severa will want Ricken!Owain, the other doesn't care). If you really want a physical Owain, Stahl!Owain is your best bet (He'll go best with Virion!Severa). I can't speak for aesthetics, though. That's your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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