Armanyte Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Thanks Alastor, so I guess it's like the Aether Luna situation for Lucina. In that case I'll probably do both, if you noticed I accidentally picked 4 skills the last was supposed to be armsthrift, but I can drop that. In that case my build now looks like this: MU!Severa @ Hero/Dark Flier -Limit Breaker -Galeforce -Luna -Ignis -Swordfaire/Tomefaire/(insert whatever -faire here) Now my question is what class to go. I'll adapt my faire after I decide on a class. Edited October 2, 2014 by Armanyte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Thanks Alastor, so I guess it's like the Aether Luna situation for Lucina. In that case I'll probably do both, if you noticed I accidentally picked 4 skills the last was armsthrift, but I can drop that. In that case my build now looks like this: MU!Severa @ Hero/Dark Flier -Limit Breaker -Galeforce -Luna -Ignis -Swordfaire/Tomefaire/(insert whatever -faire here) Now which class should she go with this build? Luckily as MU!Severa she gets literally every -faire so I can keep that open. Wyvern lord I think. She's got even more speed than lon'qu!severa and pretty much the whole selling point of Lon'qu!Severa is that you can double anna as a wyvern if you have the right speed partner. Not sure, Czar_Yoshi would know more about that build than I do, but apparently if you're fast enough to manage it, Wyvern lord is REALLY good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armanyte Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Awesome I'll hope Czar_Yoshi (who seems to carry this thread a lot) replies as well. Should Morgan have a similar build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Awesome I'll hope Czar_Yoshi (who seems to carry this thread a lot) replies as well. Should Morgan have a similar build? Unless Morgan is Lucina' sibling, he/she can always do everything that his/her sibling can Wait wait, no, that's wrong, gendered classes and all. But yeah, since Severa and Morgan are both girls here, same principle applies, they're functionally identical. You could do the same thing, but going by what Czar_Yoshi's told me before, going for another of her many, many options for versatility's sake might be the way to go. One more thing: Lon'qu!Inigo's not very good. You might want to consider giving Inigo a father who has luna or vengance since that's pretty much the only qualifier for a good father for Inigo. Edited October 2, 2014 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Dozel Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 One more thing: Lon'qu!Inigo's not very good. You might want to consider giving Inigo a father who has luna or vengance since that's pretty much the only qualifier for a good father for Inigo. Inigo is in the same boat as Severa, except that he can be worse or better. Wyvern!Inigo has access to Agressor and Galeforce, and with +5speed, he wont be slow by any means. Not to mention he has Berserker, meaning Axefaire. His only real flaw in this pair is overlap of the myrmidon line and lack of a proc. But the latter isn't so much of an issue as Inigo is still pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armanyte Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Is Astra just a non-factor in optimization? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Dozel Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Is Astra just a non-factor in optimization? It's generally agreed that certain damage (Luna) is greater than half damage with chance of crit (Astra). All the other procs are class locked to Chrom or not reliable outside of certain skill combinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Is Astra just a non-factor in optimization? Not exactly. 1: Swordmaster also has swordfaire, so swordmaster access is still important for a lot of builds. 2: Astra is great on top of luna for certain female characters, especially Noire and Kjelle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armanyte Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So from what you two have said I should be going Wyvern Lord Inigo. What does that mean for Severa because wouldn't Wyvern Lord + Wyvern Lord be not that great? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) So from what you two have said I should be going Wyvern Lord Inigo. What does that mean for Severa because wouldn't Wyvern Lord + Wyvern Lord be not that great? Incorrect. Wyvern Lord doesn't boost speed, which is essential for the Severa Wyvern Lord thing to work. What you'll want to do is have Inigo be a berserker, since without a proc, he'll need a lot of attack power to do much good, and berserker's the mightiest class there is. Plus berserker boosts strength AND speed, so Severa Wyvern Lord will still work. But have you actually already paired up Olivia? I'd like to insist again that you may have some problems with a non-proccing Inigo... Edited October 2, 2014 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armanyte Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Ok, that's looking pretty good, but as a hypothetical, if I went DF Severa, would I still want Inigo as a beserker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Ok, that's looking pretty good, but as a hypothetical, if I went DF Severa, would I still want Inigo as a beserker? Almost certainly not. Massive pair up bonus conflict. Pairing up with a berserker increases your strength by TEN. Dark fliers are significantly faster, so you probably won't need a speed boosting partner, but they're also magical. And the only magical class Lon'qu!Inigo has is dread fighter, which is a fine class, mind you, but the pair up bonuses are kinda a combination of meh-y and redundant for a super-fast dark flier. Actually, on second thought, there might be SOME merit to being a dark flier with a berserker partner, if only because dark fliers CAN use lances, but it sounds super super iffy to me, you'd have to ask CY. Edited October 2, 2014 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armanyte Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Ok, last two questions, first on the hypothetical Severa build is if I go hero, what class should Inigo go? Second question, does DS+ work even if the character is leading? I ask this because Lucina is paired with a hard support Gerome and I'm not sure whether to keep DS+ on. This is the current build: Sumia!Lucina @ Great Lord -Limit Breaker -Galeforce -Aether -Luna -Dual Strike+ Probably gonna change the class to Sniper/Bow Knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Ok, last two questions, first on the hypothetical Severa build is if I go hero, what class should Inigo go? Second question, does DS+ work even if the character is leading? I ask this because Lucina is paired with a hard support Gerome and I'm not sure whether to keep DS+ on. This is the current build: Sumia!Lucina @ Great Lord -Limit Breaker -Galeforce -Aether -Luna -Dual Strike+ Probably gonna change the class to Sniper/Bow Knight. The DX+ skills work regardless of front or back. Normally a good partner for a hero Severa is a paladin, but your Inigo doesn't have that and he likely would if you gave him a luna father Okay I think you get the friggin' hint by now XD. If you go hero I'd probably still recommend Berserker for Inigo. Did you pass down axefaire to Severa? That's really useful for heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armanyte Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Yeah, this was a head canon run, so that's the reason my Inigo is so bad. Weirdly enough my preferences for supports changed and my next run is probably going to be Stahl!Inigo (happy?). I'm actually posting this just before I'm about to do Severa's paralogue so I'll go grind out Axefaire then, which would be my pass for both Wyvern Lord and Hero so that works. Thanks for your help. I'll probably be back with more questions eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Yeah, this was a head canon run, so that's the reason my Inigo is so bad. Weirdly enough my preferences for supports changed and my next run is probably going to be Stahl!Inigo (happy?). I'm actually posting this just before I'm about to do Severa's paralogue so I'll go grind out Axefaire then, which would be my pass for both Wyvern Lord and Hero so that works. Thanks for your help. I'll probably be back with more questions eventually. No problem, sorry for knocking your shipping pairs, I'm just not as knowledgeable as CY is and getting rid of a cornerstone like offensive procs made me a bit confused about what to recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armanyte Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 You did fine, I just find it fun to have non-optimal pairings try to conquer apotheosis. Yet I somehow still ended up with pairings like Gaius!Noire, Donnel!Kjelle, and Libra!Owain. You should have seen me trying to figure out how to deal with Fred!Brady. Weirdly enough this pairing is actually what's making me do a third run I want to move to Fred!Yarne which, weirdly enough makes my favorite pairings more optimal Henry->Maribelle Stahl->Olivia Lon'qu-> (who knows I'm trying to figure that out right now after this run). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The only thing you'd want to go Lon'qu!Severa for is insane speed that can double even the fastest enemies in Apo. She lacks great procs like Luna and V/V isn't recommended due to her low magic mod. That's not saying she's bad, but there are some things you want. Actually her Mag doesn't really matter, the reason Severa never goes VV is because she can't get 100% DS and Tomefaire at the same time. But VV isn't the only way to use Vengeance- you can equip it by itself and just use a playstyle that involves Severa deliberately taking a lot of damage and it'll be roughly as good as Luna. Standard Wyvern builds for Apo use LB/GF/LF/All+2/proc with a Berserker support and at least a 5 Spd mod (to hit 75 Spd)- these criteria are met by Lon'qu!Severa, Virion!Severa, Gaius!Kjelle and various Morgans. Inigo is in the same boat as Severa, except that he can be worse or better. Wyvern!Inigo has access to Agressor and Galeforce, and with +5speed, he wont be slow by any means. Not to mention he has Berserker, meaning Axefaire. His only real flaw in this pair is overlap of the myrmidon line and lack of a proc. But the latter isn't so much of an issue as Inigo is still pretty good. He'd need a Hero Severa support to reach 75 (LB/Agg/GF/All+2/AF), but that would be strictly inferior to a standard Wyvern-F x Berserker set, so I don't recommend it. This Inigo should stick as a Berserker with a +Hit skill. DF x Berserker: I might do it if the units in question were Sumia!Lucina x Stahl!Yarne. A Bow Knight could probably be swapped in for better effects, though. Or any other 8-Mov class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Dozel Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 This Inigo should stick as a Berserker with a +Hit skill. Doesn't Lon'qu's high skill mods sort of helps the Berserker's low accuracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Skl: 35(base) +5(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =64 Lck: 45(base) +1(mods) +10(LB) +14(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =74 Hit: 133(base) +85(5/15 B.Axe) =218. The typical minimum acceptable Hit for Apo is 220. He's pretty close (a lot closer than most Berserkers), but not all the way and the extra Hit would help if he wanted to fight some bosses. Besides, it's not like he has anything better to put there, lacking a proc and whatnot. Though if there was something better to put there, the +Hit skill would be the most acceptable sacrifice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Does Miracle work against Dual Strikes? I was thinking about using AT with Double Bow instead of Bowfaire with Longbow for my Sniper FeMU. The only kill this affects is Invincisorc. FeMU's accuracy drops from 100 to 96. Her husband Yarne has perfect hit/DS and does 23 damage per hit, so FeMU needs to hit once for 19 (assuming Miracle activates) if Miracle does work on Dual Strikes, but doesn't need to hit at all if it doesn't. This means 100% success if it doesn't work, and 99.99922384% success if it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabeasty Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 How badly does Donnel!Noire's -1 Skill hurt her? I kinda wanted to give Gaius!Kjelle a shot, since those stats are a pretty sweet deal, but Noire would need to go with Donnel or have someone else as a father and sacrifice galeforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Miracle is just like Counter and PavGis, it doesn't work on DSes. -1 Skl isn't a huge deal depending on what you're doing (she won't notice unless she's going for 100% DS- Vengeance is her proc and she won't be using Axes) but it sure sounds bad when you note that only Donnel!Noire/Owain/Gerome and some Morgans have negative Skl. I'd worry more about her low offenses and Spd. She'll probably want to stick to Sniper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Miracle is just like Counter and PavGis, it doesn't work on DSes. Great, thanks! I will go with AT then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soule Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 They usually don't. Sniper x Sage is used when you want magical dual strikes on a Longbow (DS+ optional, it's possible to reach 100% DS without it) or if you're trying to do a VV setup without DS+ (Sniper is the only thing that will be getting Sage to 100% DS without DS+). But using a VV Sniper/Sage setup with DS+ is kind of a waste. Oh i see. So Sage/Sage is what i should be running for optimization. Cool. I already took your advice with Yarne though. But i have the possibility for 3 VVDS+ teams with FeMU!Chrom. I already have Morgan set up with VVW. So he's the guy i would need a sniper for since i messed up with him and didnt pass down dual strike cus first run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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