PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Czar_Yoshi]

AT isn't that important postgame, Despoil is better while training and an offensive skill is better for Apo. You might want to consider restarting, because that's a pretty bad asset/flaw. As long as you're on Easy/Hard and have LB3, it shouldn't waste too much time and you'll be a lot better off in the end.

[terff]

I'm not all that picky honestly and I don't feel like restarting again xD (this is like my 6th or 7th playthrough and I'm up to ch 21). I'll just stick with what I got, I do have another save file which I don't mind replacing though so I might mix it up there I might even go for a female MU x Chrom pairing, even though Olivia is quite a nice pairing.

Edited April 9, 2014 by terff

[Czar_Yoshi]

Avatar-F x Chrom means Lucina can't marry anyone with access to all classes, which is bad. Oh well.

[Emerald Ink]

What are some good pairings for the kids, anyway? Like, are there any combinations that seem to work particularly well together?

[Airship Canon]

What are some good pairings for the kids, anyway? Like, are there any combinations that seem to work particularly well together?

Morgan/Lucina for a pure gen 2 that's notable.

Kid pairs are more RT matching/pair up aligning.

Lucina wants a V/V husband.

Things like Gerome/Severa is for Avo stacking [Gerome has Dual Support+, which matters]

Everyone else, really it's just making sure the pair up bonuses line up and aligning skill combos [like ideally you want all of your pairs to have at least one Galeforce], so it is parent dependent.

[Emerald Ink]

Morgan/Lucina for a pure gen 2 that's notable.

Kid pairs are more RT matching/pair up aligning.

Lucina wants a V/V husband.

Things like Gerome/Severa is for Avo stacking [Gerome has Dual Support+, which matters]

Everyone else, really it's just making sure the pair up bonuses line up and aligning skill combos [like ideally you want all of your pairs to have at least one Galeforce], so it is parent dependent.

Er, sorry, but what's Avo stacking?

I figured that magical kids would usually want to pair together, as would physical kids, but I was mostly just curious if any really stood out, since most kids seem to be able to go physical or magical.

[Airship Canon]

Er, sorry, but what's Avo stacking?

Avoid stack- something that's kinda overlooked, but is very potent. It's an absolute defense against anything lacking Hawkeye.

Looking at the Gerome/Severa example:

LQ!Severa @Hero: 48 SPD; 45 LCK

With Avo+10, -Breaker, and Speed+2 that's 157 Avoid.

Rallies [sans Heart] take that up to 175 Avo.

Tonics add 4: 179.

Which is quite a bit from just Sevvy.

Now, if you wanted to expound on that-- you'd give her a +SPD pair.

Zerker: +8 SPD, +3 LCK

203 Avo there.

Gerome carries Dual Support+, which tacks on an additional +5, making him better than Yarne.

208.

(Of course the target value for Avoid [which is really Anna or Mini-Boss Soldier@WTD] is still 212, so you need a Charm to finish things off)

Edited April 10, 2014 by Airship Canon

[Emerald Ink]

Avoid stack- something that's kinda overlooked, but is very potent. It's an absolute defense against anything lacking Hawkeye.

Looking at the Gerome/Severa example:

LQ!Severa @Hero: 48 SPD; 45 LCK

With Avo+10, -Breaker, and Speed+2 that's 157 Avoid.

Rallies [sans Heart] take that up to 175 Avo.

Tonics add 4: 179.

Which is quite a bit from just Sevvy.

Now, if you wanted to expound on that-- you'd give her a +SPD pair.

Zerker: +8 SPD, +3 LCK

203 Avo there.

Gerome carries Dual Support+, which tacks on an additional +5, making him better than Yarne.

208.

(Of course the target value for Avoid [which is really Anna or Mini-Boss Soldier@WTD] is still 212, so you need a Charm to finish things off)

Ah, that makes sense. Dammit Severa, I don't like you, stop being objectively good at things. Is that Vaike!Gerome, or just 'Zerker!Gerome in general?

Shame Lucina apparently doesn't like having the FeMU for her mom, but I guess that opens up M!Morgan as a good candidate. But I've been thinking: is Olivia!Lucina really that much better than Sumia!Lucina? Or is it more that Chrom!Inigo is better than Chrom!Cynthia (or Chrom!Bradey and Chrom!Kjelle, for that matter)?

[Airship Canon]

Ah, that makes sense. Dammit Severa, I don't like you, stop being objectively good at things. Is that Vaike!Gerome, or just 'Zerker!Gerome in general?

Shame Lucina apparently doesn't like having the FeMU for her mom, but I guess that opens up M!Morgan as a good candidate. But I've been thinking: is Olivia!Lucina really that much better than Sumia!Lucina? Or is it more that Chrom!Inigo is better than Chrom!Cynthia (or Chrom!Bradey and Chrom!Kjelle, for that matter)?

Any 'zerker Gerome for that.

Olivia!Lucina is part of a three way tie, since as long as Lucina gets Galeforce, she's perfect.

Olivia is commonly prefered since it allows Chrom to pass Luna to someone. It's not a big deal really though- since there's plenty of Luna to go around.

[Emerald Ink]

Any 'zerker Gerome for that.

Olivia!Lucina is part of a three way tie, since as long as Lucina gets Galeforce, she's perfect.

Olivia is commonly prefered since it allows Chrom to pass Luna to someone. It's not a big deal really though- since there's plenty of Luna to go around.

Wouldn't Chrom be able to pass down GK (and therefore Luna) to any of his kids, though? I know that Cynthia and Kjelle get it anyway from their mothers, but as you said, there's plenty of other parents with access to it.

You said that Lucina doesn't care who her mom is as long as she gets Galeforce out of it, then what about her sibling? How do they stack up with Chrom as opposed to any of their other dads?

[Airship Canon]

Wouldn't Chrom be able to pass down GK (and therefore Luna) to any of his kids, though? I know that Cynthia and Kjelle get it anyway from their mothers, but as you said, there's plenty of other parents with access to it.

You said that Lucina doesn't care who her mom is as long as she gets Galeforce out of it, then what about her sibling? How do they stack up with Chrom as opposed to any of their other dads?

Cynthia, Brady, Kjelle and Morgan all have Natural GK.

Inigo is the only possible child of Chrom's who doesn't have it.

Brady's unscrewable.

Cynthia's nigh-unscrewable. She can pick up Aether off Chrom for Aether/Luna which is sound. [Vs. Henry who offers more MAG and Vengeance for another option proc wise (not as a secondary, though)]

Kjelle... flops hard with Chrom as a father. She gets Aether, but that's no real improvement, since she loses Gale from not getting Donnel.

Morgan... can do better. He gets locked out of marrying his ideal wife, and doesn't benefit from Chrom.

Inigo benefits heavily from Chrom, since +SPD and Luna.

[tuvarkz]

Wouldn't Chrom be able to pass down GK (and therefore Luna) to any of his kids, though? I know that Cynthia and Kjelle get it anyway from their mothers, but as you said, there's plenty of other parents with access to it.

You said that Lucina doesn't care who her mom is as long as she gets Galeforce out of it, then what about her sibling? How do they stack up with Chrom as opposed to any of their other dads?

Kjelle: Donnel gives Galeforce to her so he's kind of better (And Kjelle already has Cavalier line)

Cynthia: Henry is the better parent for magical (So she gets a +2 mod), but Chrom gives her neutral STR, +1 magic and Sniper access (which is good for her given high spd and Luna)

Inigo: Stahl gives pretty much the same things, just trading +1 SPD for +1 STR, Libra allows a V/V setup, Ricken for full magical dmg sweeping.

Brady: The only thing Chrom gives him is RFK, and given that Brady already has from baseline a Gale/Break/Aggro/Tome/Luna setup, it's best for him to have a parent with +Mag.

[Emerald Ink]

Cynthia, Brady, Kjelle and Morgan all have Natural GK.

Inigo is the only possible child of Chrom's who doesn't have it.

Brady's unscrewable.

Cynthia's nigh-unscrewable. She can pick up Aether off Chrom for Aether/Luna which is sound. [Vs. Henry who offers more MAG and Vengeance for another option proc wise (not as a secondary, though)]

Kjelle... flops hard with Chrom as a father. She gets Aether, but that's no real improvement, since she loses Gale from not getting Donnel.

Morgan... can do better. He gets locked out of marrying his ideal wife, and doesn't benefit from Chrom.

Inigo benefits heavily from Chrom, since +SPD and Luna.

Hm. I didn't realize that Maribelle passed the Cavalier line down. It's good to know I can't really screw up on Brady's dad, though. And since Inigo has a wider range of fathers who can benefit him...sounds like Chrom!Cynthia's one of the better bets. Plus, that frees up Henry to go to another kid who may want that +2 MAG a little more.

Kjelle: Donnel gives Galeforce to her so he's kind of better (And Kjelle already has Cavalier line)

Cynthia: Henry is the better parent for magical (So she gets a +2 mod), but Chrom gives her neutral STR, +1 magic and Sniper access (which is good for her given high spd and Luna)

Inigo: Stahl gives pretty much the same things, just trading +1 SPD for +1 STR, Libra allows a V/V setup, Ricken for full magical dmg sweeping.

Brady: The only thing Chrom gives him is RFK, and given that Brady already has from baseline a Gale/Break/Aggro/Tome/Luna setup, it's best for him to have a parent with +Mag.

Jeez, it's a good thing I like Sully and Donnel's supports. Still a shame that I think Gaius and Tharja's are mediocre at best. Well, if Chrom!Cynthia means that Henry is free, I suppose Brady'd appreciate him.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I figured that magical kids would usually want to pair together, as would physical kids, but I was mostly just curious if any really stood out, since most kids seem to be able to go physical or magical.

Only Severa, Noire, Nah, Morgan, Lucina, Inigo and Avatar can flipflop. Brady, Owain, Laurent, and Cynthia really should stay magical and Gerome, Yarne and Kjelle are definitely physical.

Hm. I didn't realize that Maribelle passed the Cavalier line down. It's good to know I can't really screw up on Brady's dad, though. And since Inigo has a wider range of fathers who can benefit him...sounds like Chrom!Cynthia's one of the better bets. Plus, that frees up Henry to go to another kid who may want that +2 MAG a little more.

Henry only gives +1 Mag. The other point is from the Gen 2 boost.

[TheBattyOne]

Only Severa, Noire, Nah, Morgan, Lucina, Inigo and Avatar can flipflop. Brady, Owain, Laurent, and Cynthia really should stay magical and Gerome, Yarne and Kjelle are definitely physical.

Based on stat mods alone, it looks like Noire is more magic-inclined and Severa's more physical-inclined. Especially Noire's default +4 Mag - that's a lot of potential to go to waste if she doesn't use it. Can they flip-flop because of the potential skills and classes from their fathers?

By the way, I really like the Pavise/Aegis skill combo. The only way to give Lucina that combo is to have Chrom marry Sumia, and then she and Cynthia both have it (without Cynthia having Frederick for a dad). Unless, of course, you have Robin pass it down, but Robin's better off marrying someone from Gen 2.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Noire's father should be Gaius, giving her Str/Mag mods of 2/3. She can be a Bowfaire Assassin/Sniper on the physical front, or a VV Dark Flier on the magical. It's a pretty even split.

Ricken!Severa gets Luna/Tomefaire and +2 Mag to go on Sage or Dark Flier, Lon'qu (or Stahl)!Severa gets VV which works best with Tomes. Virion!Severa also gets Tomefaire. On the other hand, Lon'qu!Severa can be a good Hero and Stahl!Severa can be a Hero, Assassin or Sniper.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Canadian Dynamite]

So, I was looking into creating a powerful Morgan for my next run, hopefully a Lunatic+ one if I manage to finish Lunatic. I've currently narrowed it down to three choices. Option one is to have a Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan, as I prefer her to Lucina(Oh gods Cynthia is cute) and having a Morgan with Aether would be really useful if I were do Lunatic + with minimal DLC grinding. Options two and three would be an extremely powerful magical Morgan with either Henry!Noire as her mother or Aversa. With Henry!Noire she gets 55 magic as a sage and 53 as a sorc if MU goes +Mag/-Skill. She also benefits from being able to be passed down two male-exclusive skills...I was thinking of passing Wrath from Henry and maybe Counter for MU to give her an edge as a sorcerer with Vengeance. Option three is Aversa, which gives one less point in Magic than Henry!Noire but Shadowgift, though she comes incredibly late, so that's a trade-off. I might just do this on Hard Classic, but if all goes well I'd like to try it in Lunatic+.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Canadian Dynamite

[Czar_Yoshi]

Any 3rd gen Morgan except Lucina!Morgan will require grinding to be useful in Lunatic+ by virtue of arriving too late (and even Lucina!Morgan requires some care).

You need to think about Morgan's parents in addition to just her, they have to be viable for combat as a pair or you've just traded two units for one. Cynthia x Avatar is directly inferior to Lucina x Avatar because it means Lucina can't marry either of her ideal husbands (Avatar and Morgan) and she has DS+ meaning she should get pairing priority over everyone in the game. Henry!Noire lacks Galeforce and pairing Avatar-M with someone who lacks Galeforce just won't do. Aversa is a first gen pairing and means you'll have to bench a child because they have no spouse, which is bad.

The -most- powerful Morgans are generally considered to be +Mag/-Def Maribelle!Lucina!Morgan (Sage, LB/Aether/Luna/GF/Tomefaire) and +Str/-Def Vaike!Gerome!Morgan (Berserker, LB/Agg/Axefaire/GF/filler). But neither of those work for Lunatic+ because taking a Def flaw through the first few chapters is more trouble than it's worth.

Go -Str instead of -Skl if you're doing postgame. Skl is pretty important postgame for procs and the like, and Avatar's Hit is already sketchy during the first few chapters.

Male-exclusive skills honestly don't see that much use on female children- sometimes Axefaire on Nah and that's about it.

[Canadian Dynamite]

Any 3rd gen Morgan except Lucina!Morgan will require grinding to be useful in Lunatic+ by virtue of arriving too late (and even Lucina!Morgan requires some care).

You need to think about Morgan's parents in addition to just her, they have to be viable for combat as a pair or you've just traded two units for one. Cynthia x Avatar is directly inferior to Lucina x Avatar because it means Lucina can't marry either of her ideal husbands (Avatar and Morgan) and she has DS+ meaning she should get pairing priority over everyone in the game. Henry!Noire lacks Galeforce and pairing Avatar-M with someone who lacks Galeforce just won't do. Aversa is a first gen pairing and means you'll have to bench a child because they have no spouse, which is bad.

The -most- powerful Morgans are generally considered to be +Mag/-Def Maribelle!Lucina!Morgan (Sage, LB/Aether/Luna/GF/Tomefaire) and +Str/-Def Vaike!Gerome!Morgan (Berserker, LB/Agg/Axefaire/GF/filler). But neither of those work for Lunatic+ because taking a Def flaw through the first few chapters is more trouble than it's worth.

Go -Str instead of -Skl if you're doing postgame. Skl is pretty important postgame for procs and the like, and Avatar's Hit is already sketchy during the first few chapters.

Male-exclusive skills honestly don't see that much use on female children- sometimes Axefaire on Nah and that's about it.

Thanks for the tips, I'll keep those in mind.

[Sprout]

Yay for weekends but still can't decide between Olivia and Cordelia.

[Emerald Ink]

Based on stat mods alone, it looks like Noire is more magic-inclined and Severa's more physical-inclined. Especially Noire's default +4 Mag - that's a lot of potential to go to waste if she doesn't use it. Can they flip-flop because of the potential skills and classes from their fathers?

Noire's father should be Gaius, giving her Str/Mag mods of 2/3. She can be a Bowfaire Assassin/Sniper on the physical front, or a VV Dark Flier on the magical. It's a pretty even split.

Maybe I've been spending too much time in the competitive pokémon scene to be a good judge of this sort of thing, but Gaius!Noire having mods to both STR and MAG seems like a waste of one or the other depending on which build you go with. There's no such thing as a mixed attacker in this game, since even if a class can use magic and melee weapons you can only have one weapon equipped at a time. I know Gaius!Noire is particularly OP because Galeforce in addition to those other skills, but all my instincts are telling me that she should get a dad that allows her to go pure physical or pure magical. Aassassin or Sniper Noire isn't going to be using that MAG mod, for example. Seems to me like physical Noire could still benefit from a dad that gave a better boost to her STR.

[Czar_Yoshi]

That's easy to say in theory, but you can't simply take Gaius's Str and give it to someone else while keeping everything else he gives Noire (unlike Pokemon, where you have EVs to distribute as you please). Galeforce > mods, and Noire is lucky enough as it is to have a potential father who gives her everything else she wants in addition to it (Vantage). Even if Gaius left her with 0's and 1's he'd still be her best dad, but as is he both completes her skillset and lets her run different sets.

Even if you ignored Galeforce, what then? Noire's only other option would be a VV tank (has to be magical), but Lon'qu is your only Vantage option that isn't +Str/-Mag (he's neutral and in high demand elsewhere) so you'd be left with the same mod layout you ditched Gaius to avoid, sans Galeforce.

One other thing to keep in mind is that while Noire won't be switching between Str and Mag min-battle, there will be people who build teams that call for physical Noire and people who want ones with magical Noire, and that is a place where her dual mods will come in handy.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Emerald Ink]

That's easy to say in theory, but you can't simply take Gaius's Str and give it to someone else while keeping everything else he gives Noire (unlike Pokemon, where you have EVs to distribute as you please). Galeforce > mods, and Noire is lucky enough as it is to have a potential father who gives her everything else she wants in addition to it (Vantage). Even if Gaius left her with 0's and 1's he'd still be her best dad, but as is he both completes her skillset and lets her run different sets.

Even if you ignored Galeforce, what then? Noire's only other option would be a VV tank (has to be magical), but Lon'qu is your only Vantage option that isn't +Str/-Mag (he's neutral and in high demand elsewhere) so you'd be left with the same mod layout you ditched Gaius to avoid, sans Galeforce.

One other thing to keep in mind is that while Noire won't be switching between Str and Mag min-battle, there will be people who build teams that call for physical Noire and people who want ones with magical Noire, and that is a place where her dual mods will come in handy.

I guess I saw the dad's mods as basically equivalent to EVs and the mom's as IVs? I know that's probably wildly incorrect, but that was how I initially understood it. People who want to use physical Noire could use different dads than those who wanted magical Noire and both could work, much like how the same pokémon can potentially run a number of different movesets to fulfill different roles on the team, where the moves are replaced by the skills. But the set you would run - and therefore, what dad she would have - would depend on your individual team's needs and what roles need to be filled.

Also, doesn't Gregor pass Vantage and a non-negative MAG mod?

Please forgive me for having pokémon on the brain I just spent like the last two weeks straight breeding in X

Edited April 12, 2014 by Emerald Ink

[TheBattyOne]

Arright, I've come up with a 4-skill combo I want to run: Vantage + Vengeance + Wrath + Lifetaker.

Any unit with this combo will attack first if under half HP with a significant boost to Crit, plus a shot at extra damage with Vengeance. This will really increase their likelihood of killing the attacking unit, which is where Lifetaker comes in. The fifth slot depends on the individual character, I guess.

You can have up to four Gen 2 units in one playthrough with this set (not including Morgan or Robin's potential other kid). I think the best way to pair those up is like so:

Lissa x Libra (or Henry, but I prefer Libra's stats)

Olivia x Henry (or Libra, but I prefer Henry's stats)

Miriel x Lon'qu (possibly inherit Renewal or Dual Support +)

Cordelia x Gregor (inherit Wrath)

As for Skill #5:

Laurent has wonderful magic-oriented stats with Lon'qu, but he's fragile, too, so having Renewal or Dual Support + will help him last longer. But I prefer the reliability of making him a Sorcerer with Nosferatu (Hello, Tomefaire!). Severa is the only purely physically-oriented of the four. That can be capitalized on with Lancefaire or Swordfaire. Owain is magically built and Inigo can go either way, but they're both balanced enough that there's room to play around. They could have Tomefaire and either the Sage or Sorcerer class (Hello, Nosferatu!). Alternately, Counter will greatly increase their damage output but put them in more danger. Like Severa, Inigo can get physical with Axefaire or Swordfaire. Any of these guys can take on Lethality, Tomebreaker, or Bowbreaker (for Severa and Inigo) for a little extra insurance.

Gasp! No Galeforce!? Well, my idea's still in the works, but I want units like these to be out for Enemy Phases and the ones they're paired up with to handle the Player Phases, using Galeforce to switch between them. These strategies focus on counter-attack, not offense necessarily, so Galeforce won't actually be helpful where it counts. Having said that, all of these guys except Laurent can still learn Galeforce by inheritance or inherited class. It's still the best thing for Owain and Inigo to inherit from their moms, especially if you want to play with different strategies for them.

tl;dr: I'm trying to pass off a lack of Galeforce as a reasonable tactic while overusing commas.

(P.S. Please tell me nobody's already posted this same thing already! I don't wanna read 50 pages to find out. >.>)

[Czar_Yoshi]

Gregor has -1 Mag.

I've tried to come up with a good Pokemon-Awakening comparison of breeding mechanics, but there's no getting around that they're just completely different. The biggest differences are that Pokemon is extremely random, while there's absolutely no RNG in FE pairings, and Pokemon allows you unlimited generations to sift out certain qualities. FE, however, has a lot more that's strictly hereditary, aside from Egg Moves the only point of careful Pokemon breeding is RNG control to try to lessen the time it takes to find a perfect specimen. That, combined with FE having a finite number of parents, each with their own unique qualities, means that pairings become a matter not just of filling out important qualities one by one, but getting them all in one go without hurting anyone else.

(P.S. Please tell me nobody's already posted this same thing already! I don't wanna read 50 pages to find out. >.>)

Hopefully this doesn't sound mean, but VVW is older than this thread (and out of style- it's just VV now).

The primary draw of using Vengeance is it's reliability- the boost is independent of enemy Def and it has a 100% proc rate on just about anything. Because of that, it's much more suited to offensive purposes, so drop Lifetaker (you don't want to heal for maximum damage) and Wrath (not reliable and you can kill everything without it anyway).

Because it's so based around reliability, it also needs a 100% DS rate to work. The best way to do that is with Maribelle!Lucina's DS+. The optimal setup for VV sweeping is +Mag/-Def Avatar x Maribelle!Lucina, both as Sages, with Avatar sweeping.

Using it to stay alive is pretty much LB farming only- either it won't heal enough to help, or you won't be taking damage period.