FE 4 RNG

[Curanthir]

Does FE 4 use a different RNG than other FE games? Because it really feels like the chances to hit are complete lies, and characters hit when they want to. I've had so many times where 10 enemies with 20% chance to hit all hit, and equally many times where many 90+% chances miss, and it happens far more often than in any other FE game I've played. Earlier on Chapter 3, I had around 10 cross knights miss Raquesis (or however its spelled) with a 92% chance to hit (which saved many lives by allowing her to talk to her brother). Just a couple resets before, she got 3-shotted by the same knights. And I have never seen a swordmaster (Aira) miss so many times with 80% chance to hit. I really distrust the numbers now, as they don't seem to mean as much as they do in other games. Am I the only one who seems to have far more unpredictability with FE 4's RNG?

[bookofholsety]

sort of, yes. all games from FE6 onward utilise a two-rng system which, as i understand to be the general gist, "weights" the rng results to make the higher ones higher than the values displayed and the lower ones lower. FE4, on the other hand, uses a 1-rng system so what you see in the displayed chances actually is what you get: a 99% hit rate actually DOES have a 1% chance to miss, and a 20% hit rate actually DOES have 20% chance of hitting

i'm no expert on the details of RNG mechanics and am not particulary interested either way, but that's as i understand it so

Edited August 15, 2013 by bookofholsety

[Peppy]

Gotta love the 1 RN System (applies for FE1-FE5)

Here is a more detailed explanation:
http://serenesforest.net/general/truehit.html

Edit: Well, somebody beat me to it. Oh well.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Peppy

[Tables]

As Holsety says, the difference is that numbers in FE4 are accurate, unlike newer games. Most of what you've said is likely a result of not factoring in accuracy bonuses opponents may have (e.g. Raquesis probably had the Miracle sword and low HP, giving her something around a 50-100%+ avoid boost for the turn, those enemies might have had leadership bonuses or weapon triangle advantage, or you exaggerated the numbers), although sometimes strange things do happen, since it's random.

[Espinosa]

Does the RNG not resetting to a new value after a hard reset apply to both the SNES games? It was rigged in a certain way in FE4 if my old impressions were right.

[Curanthir]

Yeah, that makes sense. And no, i wasnt exaggerating, as the knights had their 5 star leader like 2 spaces away (hence why I put Raquesis so close to the fighting), and they definitely had 92% chance to hit, but she did have the prayer sword (it did nothing for all the previous reloads, she died anyways). And I think it does or can reset, as FE 4 is the only FE game i've played where I get different results from the exact same action (very rare, but it has happened)

Edited August 15, 2013 by Curanthir

[X-Naut]

http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13270

I should note that though the above RNG is simple, the actual code in the game is quite a bit scarier, with code paths for much more shuffling of the random table. However, this code never kicks in - the function that should randomly enable this extra shuffling depends solely on ROM values, and therefore always returns the same result, which leads to the extra shuffling always being skipped. If you want to see it for yourself, the RNG is at 80A73A, and a commented disassembly of it can be seen here.

If you're playing on an emulator then yes, the RNG is fixed. What makes it annoying is that the RNG state is saved with the game and there's no way to advance the RNG outside of battling or leveling.

[Ray]

If you're playing on an emulator then yes, the RNG is fixed. What makes it annoying is that the RNG state is saved with the game and there's no way to advance the RNG outside of battling or leveling.

I've played both the original cartridge and the fan translated version on a real SNES, and even there the RNG state is saved. Both soft resets and hard resets do not alter the RNs. In most Fire Emblem games this isn't a problem since you cannot use permanent saves, but FE4 specifically is the only one where you can. If you use save states, this problem should persist through FE1-6, although I'm not sure if FE5 or FE6 also use moving characters as a way to generate RNs like FE7 does.

If you are using the arena, try letting another character battle, this should generate new RNs for the game to work with.

[CT075]

they both do, but in fe5 you have to actually move the character (whereas in fe6-8 you can just move the arrow)

[General Horace]

IIRC opening the unit list in Thracia resets the RN's as well.

[Refa]

It does, I've uh...made use of that extensively in the past, so incompetent.

[Jave]

Opening the Config screen and changing the options in FE5 also alters the RNG. I've abused this myself several times.