The more I think about it, the more I realised IS screwed up Donny

[Tables]

Donny was obviously intended as (one of) the 'Est' type characters, starting weak but with very good growths, as well as something unique (in Donny's case, two strong unique skills). So while he would start weak, he'd grow quickly, and then after not too long, become one of your strongest characters.

Now we mostly all believe, Donny just simply isn't worth it in any kind of serious run, since the reward he gives isn't worth the investment. But the more I think about it, the more I realise that IS just screwed over Donny in too many ways, some probably unintentional.

• Firstly is the issue that he needs an early second seal. Second Seals are rare and valuable, and there are much better candidates for early ones, such as Chrom, Avatar & Panne. Even if you do end up with one spare by whatever means, it's still an expensive tool to use on him
• There's the issue that the earlygame is much tougher than the late game. This is likely unintentional and more of a result of various factors in how the game works, but it does lead to the issue of: Why train Donnel, who is bad early when the game is hard, and good late when the game is easy?
• Donny's other class options don't use Lances, meaning he loses all of his lance rank when he reclasses, guaranteed, and is left at E rank swords or axes. This means you're forced to use Bronze weapons for quite a while, and then nothing above Iron, seriously limiting usefulness even after class changing for a little while. Arms Scrolls and glass weapons are rare (and random in glass's case), and using AS to go from E to D in one weapon is pretty inefficient
• He has very few good class options. About all he really has is Merc > Hero, which is pretty nice, but after that, nothing worthwhile. Okay, having one good option is usually enough, but it does limit him in terms of late game/postgame skill selection, making him honestly pretty bad in a team which is approaching caps, since he just doesn't have the useful skills to offer. Underdog/Axebreaker/Bowbreaker/Patience/Armsthrift is about the best he can do, and that's not all that good.
• Those modifiers. They aren't actually quite as bad as a lot of people seem to make out (some people seem to treat having +3 luck as though it's a bad thing, which is obvious nonsense, even if it is the least useful stat to have a +3 in) although they are still very poor, which coupled with his class set makes him typically a very bad parent for male children for postgame, and only decent for female children because he also passes Pegasus.

I think it's kind of sad, honestly. The main issues I think are the class set (which is so bad I sorta listed it on there twice) and requiring a rare and valuable resource to even get properly started. Like I think IS could have done two things different with Donny and he'd have been an at least worthwhile character, if not good:

1) Add Wyvern Rider to his class set. Yes four classes as a result, oh well. Still only 5 promoted options.

2) Have Villager cap at level 10 (learning Underdog at level 10), and then class change automatically to an unpromoted class after the chapter ends, like FE8 trainees. When you class change in this way, the new class gets +20 WEXP to it's weapon type (+20 sword WEXP for Cavalier/Tactician, for Donny's male chilren).

I think just these two changes would make Donny a far more competivive character - Wyvern Rider gives him actually interesting class options, and it fits his modifiers (good Str/Def, bad Skl/Spd) to boot. Not costing a Second Seal and only needing to Villager for 9 levels means using him is somewhat less costly, but still requires you to train up a character who starts extremely weak.

Any thoughts, or any issues with Donnel I missed? I really would like to see an Est type whose actually pretty good in a later FE game. The closes we've come yet is like Raquesis, and she's not even really an Est.

[Vashiane]

I agree with this so, so much I can't fully begin to express my appreciatation. Plus, Wyvern Rider. [/squee]

I have a serious bias towards that class set, so apologies for fangirling.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

If we are talking in the context of maximization, adding WR basically does nothing since WR is one of those "oh shit why did I get this class set" kind of class

In the context of main game, I agree with this notion, but Underdog is quite a questionable skill in and on itself

Edit: Random Leif mention because Leif is awesome

Edited August 25, 2013 by JSND

[shadykid]

If we are talking in the context of maximization, adding WR basically does nothing since WR is one of those "oh shit why did I get this class set" kind of class

In the context of main game, I agree with this notion, but Underdog is quite a questionable skill in and on itself

Edit: Random Leif mention because Leif is awesome

Leif is awesome

Donnel sucks

screw Donnel, let him suck as lolcasualbait

Edited August 25, 2013 by shadykid

[Anacybele]

Yeah, Donny is difficult to train up. :/

But I still find him adorable personality wise and I love his voice. Southern accents are awesome. ^^

[Vashiane]

If we are talking in the context of maximization, adding WR basically does nothing since WR is one of those "oh shit why did I get this class set" kind of class

In the context of main game, I agree with this notion, but Underdog is quite a questionable skill in and on itself

Edit: Random Leif mention because Leif is awesome

... Seriously? I adore the class to pieces. Breaker skills + Deliverer? Yes, yes and more yes.

Yeah, Donny is difficult to train up. :/

But I still find him adorable personality wise and I love his voice. Southern accents are awesome. ^^

Sam did an amazing job on his voice indeed. :)

[Usana]

I really like the idea of auto-promote + lvl 10 cap. That alone would go a long way to make him more useful.

A flying class would really push him forward. However, I am not sure Wyvern Rider is the best pick as an extra option for him. And giving him an additional class set just feels a bit forced considering that the other no-promo characters don't get an extra class set(Olivia, Nowi, Nah, Tiki, Wallhart, Panne, Yarne - though admitedly those options are a heck of a lot better than villager). Perhaps if you traded Fighter for Cavalier? I also remember getting the impression that he is rather enamored with those 'knights' in those stories. Which I imagine are probably mounted fighters based off the Cavalier class? I could be mistaken. Anyways, the issue there is obviously it weakens his class inherentance since it removes Pegasus from his daughter's potential set. Still even if he was given an extra class set like Kjelle has I think Cavalier is a better fit personality/character wise than Wyvern.

[Anacybele]

Sam did an amazing job on his voice indeed. :)

Agreed totally! I especially love Donny's crit line "YEEEEHAW!" Simply amazing. lol

Btw Vash, still waiting for you to get back on me on that Awakening fic. :P

[Vashiane]

Agreed totally! I especially love Donny's crit line "YEEEEHAW!" Simply amazing. lol

Btw Vash, still waiting for you to get back on me on that Awakening fic. :P

OHMYGOD MY MEMORY IS TOTAL CRAP. O.o

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

I don't know how much the "Est" archetype "fun" could work in a game like Awakening, if you grind.

And Donnel is just not worth it in a no-grind playthrough... he's not just hard to train, he also doesn't live up to the rest of the cast with his fewer reclass options and lower caps... what were the people at IS thinking??

But he is a nice dad for the girls at least: I personally can't put Nowi with anyone else for my moral reasons ;;

To make him more of a competitive character... I'd probably give him the cavalier class, so he can get Luna, Aegis, yadda yadda... and maybe even Discipline to make up for his weapon skills problems (well... since he gets to use lances again those wouldn't be much of a problem anymore actually). Wyvern Rider would give him all those breakers and carrier, and combined with the Hero's axe breaker then he'd have all the breakers ('cept tome)... neat-o.

[Anacybele]

I can't bear to put him with anyone but Lissa (unless I'm playing a male Avatar, then she's going with Stahl so then I can put Cordelia with Frederick instead of Stahl), even if that Pegasus Knight line is going to waste. The two are just SO FREAKING ADORABLE in their support. x3

Vash: lol, tis alright. XD We all forget sometimes.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Anacybele

[Nobody]

He should have been able to "promote" automatically when reaching level 10. He should have gotten cavalier rather than fighter.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Giving Donnel Cavalier would be all sort of a messed up stuff

Luna, DG, AT, AND Galeforce?

[Vashiane]

Giving Donnel Cavalier would be all sort of a messed up stuff

Luna, DG, AT, AND Galeforce?

His children would automatically become Cynthia-esque in their un-break-ability.

[Samias]

But without fighter, who's to say he'd still pass on pegasus knight? Maybe he'd only pass down troubadour instead? However if Donnel did get a 4th class set in cavalier that would be all sorts of broken for any female child. Especially Nah, but Noire would still gain a lot too.

[Canto]

Eh. The only thing I'd do is make his SKL/SPD mods +0 and switch his Fighter into Barbarian. I rather like having his daughters with the Troubadour set.

[Hawk King]

IS didn't "screw up" Donny. He is exactly how they wanted him.

IS just didn't have LTC and efficient styles of play in mind when they made the game. Hence the ability to grind endlessly. And the fact that most maps are easily done in 1 turn.

Donny is like a Magikarp. Completely useless until his evolution and then never makes any unique contributions to make the time spent training him truly worth it.

The thing I think IS screwed up on was giving Donny the Fighter class as opposed to Barbarian. 3 promoted classes is so depressing no matter how much grinding you do.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Its kinda ironic to think that Donnel's reverse, namely Frederick is the most perfect Jeigan we ever had since Old Marcus

>_> IMO

Edited August 25, 2013 by JSND

[BrightBow]

IS didn't "screw up" Donny. He is exactly how they wanted him.

IS just didn't have LTC and efficient styles of play in mind when they made the game. Hence the ability to grind endlessly. And the fact that most maps are easily done in 1 turn.

Donny is like a Magikarp. Completely useless until his evolution and then never makes any unique contributions to make the time spent training him truly worth it.

The thing I think IS screwed up on was giving Donny the Fighter class as opposed to Barbarian. 3 promoted classes is so depressing no matter how much grinding you do.

There is grinding but using it to the point where Donnel has everything but E-Rank in a different class would allow him to break the game like a twig.

Besides, LTC and efficiency have nothing to do with not wanting to waste time on generic maps.

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

I like how after two reclasses he can automatically curbstomp most of the game. His mods suck, but I'm not using him for Apo, so they don't really matter.

[Faye]

I'd rather have Cavalier instead of Fighter too. D8 I'd take toilet-bowl armor over the hideous fighter class.

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

I'd rather have Cavalier instead of Fighter too. D8 I'd take toilet-bowl armor over the hideous fighter class.

Don't take this too hard, but do you only care about aesthetics?

[BlueFire]

IS didn't "screw up" Donny. He is exactly how they wanted him.

IS just didn't have LTC and efficient styles of play in mind when they made the game. Hence the ability to grind endlessly. And the fact that most maps are easily done in 1 turn.

Exactly this.

[Nobody]

Giving Donnel Cavalier would be all sort of a messed up stuff

Luna, DG, AT, AND Galeforce?

His best children are Kjelle and Noire. Both already have the knight line, so it wouldn't make any difference. Nah, on the other hand, would like him much more as a father.

[HeoandReo]

His best children are Kjelle and Noire. Both already have the knight line, so it wouldn't make any difference. Nah, on the other hand, would like him much more as a father.

I think the changes would be a lot more significant than that. Giving Donnel Cav over Fighter pretty much turns him from one of the worst fathers in the game into one of the best. Cavalier and Knight are two of the most powerful classes you can get because Great Knight inheritance is so broken it's not even funny. Just to see what each kid gets if Donnel got Cav instead...

Severa/Inigo: Gets nothing but Luna, but even so Luna's all that Inigo really needs and it's one of the things that Severa really wants along with Myrmidon. Aegis is a bonus.

Gerome: Suddenly Donnel!Gerome is upgraded from joke character to arguably better as a physical support than Ricken!Gerome, and he now gets Aegis to deal with his flying weakness. Stahl/Fred/Kellam would still be better, but hey, Donnel's viable now.

Brady: No significant changes, but hey. Brady already gets everything he needs.

Owain: Still gets Vantage/Armsthrift/Sol, but also Luna which he really wants since he has Galeforce. Also makes up for the lower strength should he decide to go physical.

Yarne: Still good as a throwaway with Paladin/Dual Guard/whatever, but can still be a decent frontliner with AT/Sol and Hero access. A nice hybrid of frontlining and backlining Yarnes.

Laurent: Armsthrift/Sol is alright for a Sorcerer, but now he gets Armsthrift/Luna and Aegis to reduce magic damage.

Noire: Trades Troubadour for Aegis, which might be nice to become a more tanky Sorcerer with since she starts with getting Pavise.

Nah: Also trades Troubadour for Cav, which is a winning trade all around. Galeforce/Luna, Dual Guard and Aegis for defensive purposes, etc.

Edited August 25, 2013 by HeoandReo