Teach me to like Lucina

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Yeah, Lyn's irrelevance to the plot make it harder to take her seriously. The problem is, the team tried to make her look relevant by shoving her in every dialogue ever(I say Isa is a better example than Lyn, but I digress)

Which is not that much of a difference with Lucina who become irrelevant during part 2, mostly being paralogue dedicated explanatory chick, or being told to shut up in ch 22

Is it just me, but did IS seems to be obsessed with creating a female character who become irrelevant by part 2?

[Thor Odinson]

I feel Lyn wasn't written very well, but there was an attempt there. If the writers of FE7 made her personality more coherent instead of a bunch of thrown together traits, I feel she could've been a good character.

But I guess supports can only do so much in a big cast, especially with the FE7 limits.

Also Lucina is my bb with her glorious STRENGTH and totally can outarmwrestle Chrom forever with my setup

[Anacybele]

It makes me sad that people dislike Lucina, or can claim she's ugly. Lucina has been through a lot, and I think her quiet, determined resolve makes her beautiful and mature. She had a life of hell, like the rest of the future children. She sacrificed a lot to return to the past and change the future, and the end of chapter 13 never fails to break my heart. The poor girl needed to be loved for so long.

Lucina's parents never loved her? Her friends never loved her? Yeah, they all went through hell, but it wasn't like she went through it all alone. Also, I have never heard of sucky experiences having any positive effects on one's appearance.

Like Freddy Bear for instance. That man is such a joker. =P

He's actually one of the exceptions to that rule. Simply because he's a different type of character that I tend to like. You'll find more info on that in the "what do you look for in a good character" thread. :P

Edited September 5, 2013 by Anacybele

[Phoenix Wright]

lucina has depth, unlike most characters in this game, but the way the game presents her is awful. you have to infer anything and everything concerning her personality, excluding how serious she is. having the player figure things out is cool, but not to the degree that we see with lucina. at face-value, and indeed throughout her relevance in-game, she is a bland and uninteresting character.

she's a good unit, though. a damn good unit.

also, i really can't see how lucina is ugly in the slightest. granted, a woman with blue hair in real life would probably get a "what the fuck is she doing" from me, but in the fire emblem universe, it works.

[Vashiane]

I'm not saying this about you in particular, but I think Lucina suffers from what I call shounen hero syndrome. Essentially they are put in the role of hero in the story, and fulfill that role to the best of their ability. They are generally the most liked character in the series, but they also generate a fair number of haters. Naruto and Goku are some of the most popular characters in the series, despite their relative boring personalities. But they are driven, and that's why people like them. This "driven" nature make them the mainstream option, and thus harder to like for some people. Because I can't like what everyone else likes.

But they buy the manga named Naruto. And every whose smart in strategy puts Lucina on their team, but somehow they find the ability to hate her too.

Feel free to. Credit me if you can.

I admit that may have been some of my FE7 nostalgia. But she does have her own story arc where she learns and grows as a character. She is just another typical hero type. And her design is very strong, hence she was the second most downloaded spotpass character according to Knights of Iris.

Hmm, I see your point indeed. And now that I think about it, there's a LOT of character who fit that particular bill.

Although I can see why people may think she's boring, or uninteresting it's all a matter of taste and opinion in the end. You can rarely sway someone's opinions no matter how lovely an argument you craft, really.

Well, you CAN dislike the main character of a series and still buy the manga for the story, or some of the other characters. When I was younger - an objective example, I know - I used to read the Gossip Girl series. and I couldn't STAND Blair but I liked Jenny - enough to still buy them, regardless.

It's definitely plausible. A bit odd, yes, but plausible.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

@VJ: most of my relative actually read Naruto because Tobirama is the best thing ever.

Also its now a comedy more than anything, not to mention the entire hypocritical moral of the story and whatnot

@PKL: I actually called Lucy who looks like a man, and I don't have a problem with that at all.

What is interesting, is the fact that Lucina is actually "secretly" characterized to be traditionally feminine, if her sibling support is anything to go by

I'm going on a more sexist route here(which WILL offend some female user around here, mind you), but I liked a female character who is competent and is feminine. There are a lot of these in FE(Isadora, Louise being a generic housewife 101, Sheeda being a generic housewife 101. You see the point).

if they go into extremes on either side(see: Kjelle, Florina, Sumia) I don't like it either. That's not to say that I did not like the "manly woman" characters because Echidna and Vaida is one of my favorite character in the series

*while she fits on this note, I really don't like it when their concept is.... Sexist, or, as someone puts it "the way they develop her is disturbing" like Cordelia either. Just saying

[Loki Laufeyson]

I generally agree with Viewtiful_Joe, but Lyn's actually not that great of a character.

Pretty much. /Tharja

Lyn is actually really grating in Hector Mode.

What made me like Lucina? Well..hmm...

For a while, i just thought she was a good unit with a cool design, but her personality didnt wow me.

Until i got the Scramble pack. Yeah, its DLC, but her convos with some people (especially Severa, omfg!) are like really wonderful and show how strong she is. And that shes also a really sweet girl who wants to have the chance to live with her family and have a normal life. But she doesnt angst about this, she wants to make the world a better place for everyone, not just her. Lucina is far from selfish and we see especially in the Future Past pack, just why the other kids follow her.

She wins.

[amadeuscho]

Lucina's parents never loved her? Her friends never loved her? Yeah, they all went through hell, but it wasn't like she went through it all alone. Also, I have never heard of sucky experiences having any positive effects on one's appearance.

She goes through it alone if you don't pair up with anyone else. And her parents died when she was young. Batman's parents died when he was young. But he still went through most of the world alone, even with Alfred, because there are certain things that you can experience alone with your parents.

Just in terms of design, Lucina might be one of the best designs in the series:

1) Functionality - She is well guarded in her outfit, and yet is limber enough to fight with a quick style. Unlike most of her female counterparts, her outfit is not revealing at all. And you have to really go out of your way to sexualize her. This is critical with female designs. Not to mention, despite her lack of skin showing, she was still shown to be thought of as a beautiful character, as seen on this forum.

2) Repeating colors and matching colors - Her outfit has a dark blue motif but their are some brilliant touches in the design. Her blue hair matches the outfit. Her gold headband matches with the golden embroidery. And her red sheath goes with the underneath of her cape.

4) Unique - She is designed differently than ever other character before her. She manages to balance femininity with utility. Her outfit is unquestionable design for a female, but a female soldier. The sleekness of it all fits well with her personality and fighting style. It matches the speed of her strikes.

5) Subtle revelations about her personality - I don't think people pick up on how her art reveals her personality. There is darkness in her design that reflects the dark future. And yet, the white and gold is where your eyes are drawn to because it's hope that her design is supposed to convey.

And then there is the fact that she is never able to give out a full smile. There's a sense of inner pain with every piece of art where she smiles. It's almost a fake smile, because she really doesn't know how to smile fully really, or doesn't allow herself too.

6) Call back - It homages the series' greatest lord in the best ways, while still letting Lucina be her own character.

Well, you CAN dislike the main character of a series and still buy the manga for the story, or some of the other characters. When I was younger - an objective example, I know - I used to read the Gossip Girl series. and I couldn't STAND Blair but I liked Jenny - enough to still buy them, regardless.

It's definitely plausible. A bit odd, yes, but plausible.

I know it's plausible, buy my point was that on some level people need those characters. They fulfill a role within the series. I can't speak for Gossip Girl. It just the nature of shounen manga stories, in which Fire Emblem heavily relies on.

Until i got the Scramble pack. Yeah, its DLC, but her convos with some people (especially Severa, omfg!) are like really wonderful and show how strong she is. And that shes also a really sweet girl who wants to have the chance to live with her family and have a normal life. But she doesnt angst about this, she wants to make the world a better place for everyone, not just her. Lucina is far from selfish and we see especially in the Future Past pack, just why the other kids follow her.

She wins.

I think this puts it well. She is the leader of the kids for a reason.

The key to learning how to like Lucina is first learning how to not hate characters. I may not like Eirika or Micaiah in the writing or cutscenes I talked about, but I don't hate them as characters. There's no reason to hate. She's just a fictional character after all.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Snip

*big thumbs up* Nice, mate.

also, i really can't see how lucina is ugly in the slightest. granted, a woman with blue hair in real life would probably get a "what the fuck is she doing" from me, but in the fire emblem universe, it works.

Umm...i have a friend with very lovely cobalt hair. Its gorgeous on her. Its a little brighter than Lucina's but the hue is the same.

[Faye]

Viewtiful wins. I love how well-thought out and in-depth your response is. Better than anything I could come up with.

Watch Ana simply dismiss every word without a counter argument.

Ah, so risking a warn for that.

[Anacybele]

Whether Lucina's design looks good or not is merely down to opinion. Same with whether Marth is "great" or not. And I find both characters to be boring, though Marth does have a pretty decent design in his DS games. If Lucina's design was more akin to that one, I'd like it. But her official outfit just looks lame to me, even if it does cover her up more than the outfits of other female characters. And I don't like her layered hair style either. And I've seen prettier faces.

But this is my opinion. if you don't like it, good for you.

Lucina's back story is all fine and dandy. But I have trouble feeling sorry for her when she has the personality of a rock and a design that makes me want to gag.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Anacybele

[Silver Lightning]

Viewtiful, thank you so much for those elegantly and thoughtfully made points. You said just about everything I would have said and much more; I actually think I like Lucina more than I already did after seeing your insights.

And its true. You can dislike the way characters are written/designed/etc. without actually hating the character themselves.

Like, I really, really dislike the way Ninian was written and tropefied in FE7, but I feel like hate is too strong an emotion to feel for a fictional character. And I do admit that she's pretty and has an admirable resolve in the face of despair...but you never heard it from me... >_>

[Tasigat]

I was pretty indifferent towards Lucina, and thb i dind't bother thinking and forming an opinion about her, and while playing she never stood out too me, neither in a positive nor a negative way.

But man.. Viewtiful_J, that is some really nice analysis you have there and as the topic title says, this really taught me to like Lucina way more. Thanks.

I love the part where you write about her smile, that it is a little "broken" or held back, as this is an impression i always kinda had but i never really noticed.

I kinda want to hug her now ;___;

[Anacybele]

4) Unique - She is designed differently than ever other character before her.

Actually, I have to disagree completely on this. Lucina doesn't look unique, as she looks a lot like Marth and is meant to look like him for obvious reasons.

I don't like her outfit, but I also have to agree that it works for her because of her terrible fashion sense.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Anacybele

[Sunwoo]

I actually liked the characters of both Naruto and Goku. And when FE13 first came out I did like Lucina (and Chrom) a lot. But my liking in them kind of cooled off. I mean, like I said, I don't dislike them or anything. They're okay, just not my favorites. I personally feel that FE13 had a bit of a weaker cast in personality and so I get bored of almost everyone really fast. The only characters that I still really like are Miriel, Henry, and Laurent. Everyone else is just okay.

I understand that Lucina had a hard life, and the fact that she is so determined to resolve it makes me respect her character. But again, after she stops being "Marth," you don't really see her do anything onscreen to try to change the future, aside from the chapter 22 scene (which I have problems with). For a character who's supposed to have big impact on the story by virtue of jumping through time, you don't actually see her DO a lot in the actual cutscenes or anything. Heck, sometimes it seems like Say'ri has a bigger role than she does in the story. :/

[Anacybele]

I agree with Sangyul. She's a Lord, which means she's supposed to be a main character, but you're never actually required to use her at all and her importance pretty much just vanishes for the most part after she's recruited. She doesn't feel like a main character to me because of this. The Avatar always felt more like a main character to me than her.

[Mighty Kamina]

I used to dislike Lucina, but I warmed up to her. If you want an example of a really boring lord look at Chrom. Lucina also has a really nice design IMO.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Saying she is not an auto deploy = not a main character is like saying Leif is not a main character in fe4

Oh wait, he basically dominates the game's story

Edited September 5, 2013 by JSND

[shadowofchaos]

The Avatar always felt more like a main character to me than her.

I'm sorry to sound like an ass, but that's kind of... obvious?

but you're never actually required to use her at all and her importance pretty much just vanishes for the most part after she's recruited. She doesn't feel like a main character to me because of this.

Saying she is not an auto deploy = not a main character is like saying Leif is not a main character in fe4

Oh wait, he basically dominates the game's story

What he said. Ana, the only thing I'm getting from your posts are that you're piggybacking off and picking out the points where people criticize the analysis of Lucina. You're not contributing to the discussion at all.

...and I'm one of the *LAST PEOPLE* that should be white-knighting Lucina.

My subjective like of her is due to her voice actress, Yuu Kobayashi. *OTHER* than that I am pretty indifferent to Lucina. I definitely admit she looks quite beautiful... outside her official portrait in game. All the other images of her portray her a lot better than that conversation portrait in my personal opinion.

As far as her personality goes, she *IS* a callback to Marth, but she is her own character. She is not Marth in that he is that one lord that sees any sacrifice as unacceptable. In contrast, Lucina still doesn't want to lose those important to her... she wants the complete opposite of that, but as you see in Chapter 21, she loves her father... even so much as ALMOST willing to cross the line to prevent him from dying. It's a distinct difference to legendary hero-king's views, despite her incorporating his persona to save the world again as he once did.

She has lost... and realizes to save what was lost... another might be lost in place of it.

That character conflict she has gives points for her from me.

Edited September 5, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Loki Laufeyson]

Lucina becomes Chrom's ultimate goal. Shes the one who provides Chrom of the drive to keep fighting. She pops up in cutscenes to remind him of what the future holds and how things are going end up being very similar to her bad future. Lucina is the one remind him and the player of bonds. Naga only reiterates what Lucina already said.

How is she not important to the story?

[Sunwoo]

I suppose I'm trying to say that after she joins your party, with the exception of that one cutscene in chapter 21/22 she seems to have a more passive role. Like, before she was revealed as Lucina, you witness her actually changing the past and all that. And yes, she does show up in cutscenes to remind Chrom how urgent it is to save the future. But it feels like she's not the one actually driving the change. Like, I'm not saying there's something inherently wrong with it, but I guess I'm not exactly satisfied with Lucina being Chrom's "goal", if you know what I mean.

She is Chrom's motivation, but it is still Chrom and the avatar who seem to be actively defying destiny from the cutscenes that we see in the story and stuff. I dunno, that's how it seems to me.

[S_Cero]

Well, thanks guys. Now I know why people actually like her and I definitely do like her more after reading these replies.

[shadowofchaos]

Well, thanks guys. Now I know why people actually like her and I definitely do like her more after reading these replies.

...and I'm one of the *LAST PEOPLE* that should be white-knighting Lucina.

I didn't expect to do so either.

[amadeuscho]

Whether Lucina's design looks good or not is merely down to opinion. Same with whether Marth is "great" or not. And I find both characters to be boring, though Marth does have a pretty decent design in his DS games. If Lucina's design was more akin to that one, I'd like it. But her official outfit just looks lame to me, even if it does cover her up more than the outfits of other female characters. And I don't like her layered hair style either. And I've seen prettier faces.

But this is my opinion. if you don't like it, good for you.

Lucina's back story is all fine and dandy. But I have trouble feeling sorry for her when she has the personality of a rock and a design that makes me want to gag.

Marth is the greatest because he is the design that all the lords are based on. And if he failed, the series would have ended.

I was trying to point out why her design is artistically pleasing. In terms of art, it is good to have repetition throughout the work.

I actually liked the characters of both Naruto and Goku. And when FE13 first came out I did like Lucina (and Chrom) a lot. But my liking in them kind of cooled off. I mean, like I said, I don't dislike them or anything. They're okay, just not my favorites. I personally feel that FE13 had a bit of a weaker cast in personality and so I get bored of almost everyone really fast. The only characters that I still really like are Miriel, Henry, and Laurent. Everyone else is just okay.

I understand that Lucina had a hard life, and the fact that she is so determined to resolve it makes me respect her character. But again, after she stops being "Marth," you don't really see her do anything onscreen to try to change the future, aside from the chapter 22 scene (which I have problems with). For a character who's supposed to have big impact on the story by virtue of jumping through time, you don't actually see her DO a lot in the actual cutscenes or anything. Heck, sometimes it seems like Say'ri has a bigger role than she does in the story. :/

I love Goku and Naruto too. My point is they are two of the most liked characters, and some people hate on them because of their mainstream appeal.

I could go through the whole plot line, but really, she tries to change the future by working with you and becoming a member of your party. So that's not true. And the way time travel works in the game is she tries to prevent key events. So Emmeryn's death, Basilio's death, and Chrom's death etc. That's the point of time travel. And she does so by A) participating your battles B) warning others what's going to happen.

I suppose I'm trying to say that after she joins your party, with the exception of that one cutscene in chapter 21/22 she seems to have a more passive role. Like, before she was revealed as Lucina, you witness her actually changing the past and all that. And yes, she does show up in cutscenes to remind Chrom how urgent it is to save the future. But it feels like she's not the one actually driving the change. Like, I'm not saying there's something inherently wrong with it, but I guess I'm not exactly satisfied with Lucina being Chrom's "goal", if you know what I mean.

She is Chrom's motivation, but it is still Chrom and the avatar who seem to be actively defying destiny from the cutscenes that we see in the story and stuff. I dunno, that's how it seems to me.

The point is she a member of your party. So in canon, she is fighting with you regardless if you don't use her. And she can try to defy destiny if you try to use her. She gets a lot of special conversations with bosses, including Grima.

And on her being a main character: I think the reason she doesn't trigger a game over is she comes at a lower level like the other children. She can't die though, unlike all the other children she has a retreat quote. And she is also features prominently in box art, CD, art books, etc. She also shares intro honors with the avatar and Chrom very equally. I think they didn't make her a game over character to make the game easier for newbies. which is fine by me. makes the game easier for new players and yet gives you the ability to keep her as a main character.

Well, thanks guys. Now I know why people actually like her and I definitely do like her more after reading these replies.

Mission accomplished!

[shadykid]

why are these threads a thing

seriously this is the 3rd one