rantrantrantgta5rantrantrant

[Fruity Insanity]

What I don't understand is why this bothers you. Do you want people to stop liking it? Or maybe do you think people bellow a certain age should be forbidden from playing it?

Well, the fact that such young audiences are exposed to the game in the first place, I guess.

I'm just expressing my opinion, though. I believe that it's the parents' job to decide what their children do or don't do. (Although I can imagine kids buying the game behind their parents' back.)

So yeah, under 13 seems a bit too young, but nobody can change that. I'm not shouting out for change either, I'm just stating how I hold the current situation in slight contempt. But again, that's just me.

Wait, I don't think I even answered your questions... X3

1. I was brought up under certain ideals. Their not better or worse than others, just different.

2. No, not really. I don't care too much about it. I just want to discuss what's on my mind, really.

3. This, yes. And I assume quite a few people would agree. (As I've seen people saying "What the #$%$ are parents doing letting their kids playing this in the first place? There's an M there for a reason.")

People who kill people after playing violent games are probably mentally unstable and/or violent to start with

This is not to say that parents shouldn't teach their impressionable kids that shit on games is not something you should replicate in real life or to watch what their kids consume

But really most people who play violent games aren't gonna actually replicate what's in game

You don't see me stabbing people in the neck (outside of jokingly in pure textual situations) because I played far too many hours of Assassin's Creed

True, I totally agree. But I was talking about small-scale effects, not life-altering ones. X3

[Thor Odinson]

Nothing you can do about it anyway

The responsibility of watching the content of the media consumption of children lies in their parents

whether of not the parent allows the child in question to play whatever games for whatever reasons is out of anyone's control but their own since at the register they could just say they're buying the game for themselves

Edited September 21, 2013 by Ezio Auditore da Firenze

[Nobody]

As I've seen people saying "What the #$%$ are parents doing letting their kids playing this in the first place? There's an M there for a reason.")

Maybe the parents educate their children well enough and they know that a simple video game won't change their behavior.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Nobody

[Phoenix Wright]

i'm of the opinion that parents don't even need to be there to teach their children that. it's obvious enough for the child to understand (as noted in my initial post here).

[Fruity Insanity]

In spite of the similar methods (guns etc.), there is a difference between GTA and (say) Call of Duty, as you suggest: in the former, you're stealing cars and shooting bitches (in GTA3, the developers pass off the protagonist's shooting of his girlfriend as some bad misogynist joke: “I broke a nail, and my hair is ruined! Can you believe it? This one cost me $50!” [Gunshot]); in the latter, you're fighting for your country (a bit more noble obviously). I don't think the methods themselves are very influential, if at all.

I don't know if the desensitization you speak of even exists for GTA, at least for well-socialized people (including younger gamers). If the player derives pleasure specifically from the act of stealing cars (note I've never played GTA or similar games), then one would suspect GTA to have a deleterious effect on society, but that's very different from deriving pleasure from (say) getting the highest score possible (something arising as a consequence of stealing the fanciest virtual cars). The latter I don't think is really harmful.

I think it's the way a game depicts killing. In GTA, it's casual killing. You do what you want to do without giving a damn about others. CoD is... still casual killing. XD I don't know how to explain this well, but the games have a different air about them. /needs to develop more argument formulating skillz

Well, this is just me, but everything you do, see, hear... influences. There's a reason why companies spend millions advertising. I assume it's because results show that they're effective. They influence.

I'm grouping GTA like that. You play it. You engage in it. You spend significant time on it.

It, in turn, influences.

As for how much, I can't say. But I'm not arguing about that.

I'm just find it silly how some people state outright that it has no effect whatsoever.

[Thor Odinson]

Look, in Assassin's Creed, one of the tenets of the creed is "stay your blade from the flesh of the innocent" so I'm not supposed to kill everyone I see but

Doesn't stop me from sometimes go on murdering sprees of innocent city guards that has done nothing wrong

Sometimes fictional mindless murdering is just kinda fun, really, a nice stress-reliever and a good outlet, but it's not gonna translate to real life I'd be pretty fucking horrified if it happens in real life no matter how many guards I can kill in a video game

Edited September 21, 2013 by Ezio Auditore da Firenze

[Fruity Insanity]

Nothing you can do about it anyway

The responsibility of watching the content of the media consumption of children lies in their parents

whether of not the parent allows the child in question to play whatever games for whatever reasons is out of anyone's control but their own since at the register they could just say they're buying the game for themselves

I mentioned how I can't or need change it earlier...

True.

Yeah, but the parents... why? ;~;

Perhaps it's not bad, but it's not good either. And parents are supposed to provide a good environment for the children... D:

Maybe the parents educate their children well enough and they know that a simple video game won't change their behavior.

Maybe. But more often than not, I'd say that children learn that from outside sources, as that's usually the case.

i'm of the opinion that parents don't even need to be there to teach their children that. it's obvious enough for the child to understand (as noted in my initial post here).

*nods agree-ingly... (if that's even a word)*

[Nobody]

I'm just find it silly how some people state outright that it has no effect whatsoever.

On the other hand there are also many people that overestimate that influence. There was a murder of a married couple here in my country that got pretty big on the news because the police was trying to paint the teenager son of the couple as the main suspect for a single reason: He was addicted to violent games (assassin's creed lol). To me that doesn't make any sense.

I haven't ever seen anyone who changed the way they act just because they started to play violent games. Have you?

Edited September 21, 2013 by Nobody

[Fruity Insanity]

On the other hand there are also many people that overestimate that influence. There's was a murder of a married couple here in my country that got pretty big on the news because the police was trying to paint the teenager son of the couple as the main suspect for a single reason: He was addicted to violent games (assassin screed lol). To me that doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't make sense to me either. Both are extreme. Both are, in my opinion, illogical. Saying it "doesn't" influence or that it influences "to an extreme" are like saying that something "always" is or "never" is.

I haven't ever seen anyone who changed the way they act just because they started to play violent games. Have you?

Act? No. Think? Maybe.

Look, in Assassin's Creed, one of the tenets of the creed is "stay your blade from the flesh of the innocent" so I'm not supposed to kill everyone I see but

Doesn't stop me from sometimes go on murdering sprees of innocent city guards that has done nothing wrong

Sometimes fictional mindless murdering is just kinda fun really but it's not gonna translate to real life I'd be pretty fucking horrified if it happens in real life no matter how many guards I can kill in a video game

Yes, I agree. I never said anything against that either. :P

Small-scale.

Small-scale.

Small-scale, right?

Anyway, gotta hit the shack. Maybe I'll be back tomorrow~ See ya later guys~ Fun discussion~

Edited September 21, 2013 by Fruit Ninja

[Thor Odinson]

I dont know man what do you even mean by small scale

If it means desensitising to violence AC:R has some really fucking brutal killshots (180 degree sword-in-head-snap, anyone?) and it's fucking awesome in-game but if that happened in real life to someone and I saw that

I'd probably be scared shitless

It's just not the same

Also

There are many different reasons that could affect a parent's reason for letting their child play a violent game. Maybe they are irresponsible. Maybe they explained to the child that games != real life and the child understood the ramifications of it. Maybe they just know their kid well and trust the kid with their judgement. Maybe it was some other reason. There's more than just the simple factors of responsibility here

Edited September 21, 2013 by Ezio Auditore da Firenze

[Phoenix Wright]

I dont know man what do you even mean by small scale

If it means desensitising to violence AC:R has some really fucking brutal killshots (180 degree sword-in-head-snap, anyone?) and it's fucking awesome in-game but if that happened in real life to someone and I saw that

I'd probably be scared shitless

It's just not the same

Also

There are many different reasons that could affect a parent's reason for letting their child play a violent game. Maybe they are irresponsible. Maybe they explained to the child that games != real life and the child understood the ramifications of it. Maybe they just know their kid well and trust the kid with their judgement. Maybe it was some other reason. There's more than just the simple factors of responsibility here

i'm not speaking for him, but a small-scale desensitization to me is like...being able to see a real person die (not extremely violently, but you get what i mean) on TV or something without feeling as harsh an effect had you never played gta or something. for example, let's say i've never played gta and i see a guy get shot in the face, i start freaking the fuck out not knowing what the hell to do. whereas with playing gta or some other violent game, after i see it happen i react with tears and shock, but not going absolutely bonkers in the process. i think even this may be giving games too much credit in being able to affect one's psyche, though.

[Redwall]

I think it's the way a game depicts killing. In GTA, it's casual killing. You do what you want to do without giving a damn about others.

I said that...

CoD is... still casual killing. XD

I thought CoD is set in World War II, with the player fighting for the "good guys." I've never played it, obviously.

I would argue that since you're placed in a context demanding that your country be saved, the violence is less bad than in GTA3.

Well, this is just me, but everything you do, see, hear... influences. There's a reason why companies spend millions advertising. I assume it's because results show that they're effective. They influence.

I'm grouping GTA like that. You play it. You engage in it. You spend significant time on it.

Like I said, well-socialized people learn morals from sources other than GTA. I think you'd agree on this. It wouldn't surprise me if indeed there existed cases where people received poor guidance and became much too influenced by GTA-like media as a consequence (going beyond "desensitized" in the most severe instances). Although the point of advertisements is to make things look fun, I suspect that many people (but possibly not all) can separate their video-game fantasies from real life.

Unfortunately, peer-reviewed studies attempting to study possible links between video-game and real-life violence tend not to be very conclusive.

[Thor Odinson]

i'm not speaking for him, but a small-scale desensitization to me is like...being able to see a real person die (not extremely violently, but you get what i mean) on TV or something without feeling as harsh an effect had you never played gta or something. for example, let's say i've never played gta and i see a guy get shot in the face, i start freaking the fuck out not knowing what the hell to do. whereas with playing gta or some other violent game, after i see it happen i react with tears and shock, but not going absolutely bonkers in the process. i think even this may be giving games too much credit in being able to affect one's psyche, though.

I feel this would just be too difficult to quantify rigorously so we'll probably never find out

I've never watched a person die in real life, violently or not, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to see any in the future, but at least in my case my reactions would probably not be quantifiable even if I do, in some turn of misfortune, see a violent death in the future for I've already spent way too many hours neckstabbing 3d models

[peener weener]

man you're pretty sheltered aren't you

i'm not trying to be offensive or anything that's just the conclusion i reached

[Fruity Insanity]

man you're pretty sheltered aren't you

i'm not trying to be offensive or anything that's just the conclusion i reached

That depends on your perspective.

I consider myself sheltered in that I have yet to experience true pain and toil, as well as constant pressure from the outside world.

However, I consider myself more knowledgeable (for my age of 17, at least) about culture and people, having lived and interacted extensively with people abroad for a good near one-third of my life.

After having lived in a third-world country for a while, I'm certainly going through a (relatively smooth) cultural shock upon returning to the States.

Like I said, it depends on your perspective.

Also, "sheltered" may or may not be the right word... I've been exposed to many different things. It's that I choose to follow a certain path. It's that I choose to go along with what I feel is "right." Slightly conservative, yes; sheltered, maybe.

Besides, I'm still a minor, you know.

*rushes back to bed*

Edited September 21, 2013 by Fruit Ninja

[Phoenix Wright]

I feel this would just be too difficult to quantify rigorously so we'll probably never find out

I've never watched a person die in real life, violently or not, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to see any in the future, but at least in my case my reactions would probably not be quantifiable even if I do, in some turn of misfortune, see a violent death in the future for I've already spent way too many hours neckstabbing 3d models

I agree. To tell the truth, I don't know of any verifiable examples of "small-scale influences" that video games have. Except competitive games that make people satan for as long as the game is being played.

[Tryhard]

Of course, movies, tv shows or books with extreme violence/whatever would never do the same.

GTA has always been a parody/satire.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Tryhard

[Aizenberg]

guns don't people

video games do......?

[Original Alear]

True, I totally agree. But I was talking about small-scale effects, not life-altering ones. X3

But if you're not talking about people killing or beating the shit out of people because of stuff they saw in a video game or a movie, what sort of effects are you talking about? People being more willing to accept violence in society that they don't have a part in, or what?

*nods agree-ingly... (if that's even a word)*

Agreeably.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Lanfear

[The Fush]

I saw a 6 year old kid begging his mother to get him GTA5 the other day.

What.

[Wayward Winds]

...And there lies part of the problem. One kid gets hold of it, brags about it, and next thing anyone knows a load of other kids are engaged in 'the nag'. I know it works, I've done it myself as a young 'un (admittedly for harmless(ish) things like Simpsons Hit & Run). If the unlucky parent doesn't just give in to the little nuisance and buy it, then he'll probably find some other way to get his mitts on it (qoute from Ratchet; Deadlocked/Gladiator: "Remember kids, don't try this at home - go to a friend's house!")

And, while it's not a game example, I distinctly remember hearing of a nasty little occurence following Saddam Hussein's execution. Two kids somehow saw the footage and thought it looked an amusing game to play. Result, one hanged kid. I'm assuming they were too young to properly understand what hanging truly meant, because the alternative is too unpleasant to contemplate. Basically, regular people probably won't become psychos from playing GTA (unless they were already leaning that way anyway), but a certain age and under aren't necessarily going to understand that what happens onscreen is not acceptable behaviour in the slightest.

Really, I steer well clear of GTA and its ilk; what am I even doing on this thread? Yeek, it's an unpleasant discussion. And yet, I'm probably committed now...

Edited September 22, 2013 by Wayward Winds

[Rehab]

I'm trying to think of something to say other than "just watch this" that wouldn't be in any danger of distracting somebody from watching, and I'm not coming up with much

Edited September 22, 2013 by Rehab

[Florete]

What is GTA5.

I'm still playing Saints Row 3.

[Parrhesia]

I thought CoD is set in World War II, with the player fighting for the "good guys." I've never played it, obviously.

1: I think WW1?

2, 3?, World at War: 2

4 and the other modern warfares: in like two years

Black Ops: Pretty sure it's the Cold War, never played any of them

In all World War games, fighting for the Allies exclusively.

this is the only point i can be bothered to argue.

[Esau of Isaac]

People know that porn is "bad." You're "cleaner" if you don't view it. (I'm using apostrophes to indicate that "bad" and "clean" are subjective to the person, but, in my opinion, that's the standard the general public has. No porn, good; porn, not so good.) People also know that drugs are bad.

Uhhhh no. Porn is incredibly normal. Most adults have spank material, regardless of their cultural disposition. Masturbation, or at the least sexual release, is part of being a grown human. People also don't know that drugs are bad, because that's a generalist term that doesn't mean anything. Is Ibuprofen bad? Is Nyquil bad? And so on and so forth. What is deemed a "bad" drug is generally limited to those that are heavily addictive or inherently dangerous to consume.

The fact of the matter is that while children are certainly more subject to belief in fantastical elements, they're generally able to discover where reality ends and fantasy begins, at least on a general level. Grand Theft Auto came out in 2001, when I was twelve years old. Our parents were dead set against us playing it, but even as little youngsters we knew it was unnecessary bullshit and played it at a friends' whose dad didn't care.