Dating sim?

[ZemZem]

I tend to look up FE6 supports to read them, and I'd say FE6 characters develop well in them. Characters you don't think much of like Garret, Zeiss, Igrene, Treck, etc. have interesting things to say, and yeah.

FE13 supports, aside from a few parent/child supports, never really interested me as much as GBA supports had.

[Tables]

I definitely have to disagree that the supports are better than all other FE games. Maybe FE6 but that's it. And the characters are far more sterotypical than any of the previous games. It's like a game filled with Ilyanas. I can forgive the occasional slip up but this goes above and beyond.

The kids are pretty extreme, but most of the parent characters aren't really stereotypical. Maybe I just don't spend enough time learning what the stereotypes are and just see each character for their unique personalities.

Edit: Looks like it's mostly an opinion based thing. I could understand an argument that FE9 maybe does things better, but I really feel like the Awakening characters are overall more interesting (most likely due to the number of supports to reveal things in) than the GBA cast.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Tables

[BrightBow]

Do you even know what a dating sim is? A single optional mechanic involving producing babies is totally unrelated to the idea of a dating sim. Not to mention your random irrelevant tirade against the game is entirely tangential to the conclusion that it's a dating sim.

"In a typical dating sim, the player controls a male avatar surrounded by female characters. The gameplay involves conversing with a selection of girls, attempting to increase their internal "love meter" through correct choices of dialogue. The game lasts for a fixed period of game time, such as one month or three years. When the game ends, the player either loses the game if he failed to properly win over any of the girls, or "finishes" one of the girls, often by having sex with her, marrying her (as in Magical Date), and/or achieving eternal love. This gives the games more replay value, since the player can focus on a different girl each time, trying to get a different ending."

Most of this applies to Awakening. And this is merely describing a "typical game". It's not a check list you have to fulfill to be a dating sim.

And a "single optional mechanic"? A single mechanic that just so happens to hide a huge chunk of the cast, tons of levels on top of having tons of effects on a units performance.

There is even a fortune teller in the freaking main menu to ask about people's love with no purpose but to go with the theme. The mechanic is a massive part of the game.

And the point was that Awakening features the very same cast of sexual fantasies as your average dating sim. That's a huge deal, given that characters are a vital element of Fire Emblem.

If Awakening acts like a dating sim and has the same shallow fetishized cast like the average dating sim, then maybe it's accurate to call it a dating sim.

If there is anything else you find "unrelated" maybe you could give me more of a hint then merely a dozen "whuts".

Edited September 26, 2013 by BrightBow

[HadouKirby]

I'm pretty sure that dating sims revolve around dating, not making one army kill the other army through tactics and stuff.

[Nobody]

"In a typical dating sim, the player controls a male avatar surrounded by female characters. The gameplay involves conversing with a selection of girls, attempting to increase their internal "love meter" through correct choices of dialogue. The game lasts for a fixed period of game time, such as one month or three years. When the game ends, the player either loses the game if he failed to properly win over any of the girls, or "finishes" one of the girls, often by having sex with her, marrying her (as in Magical Date), and/or achieving eternal love. This gives the games more replay value, since the player can focus on a different girl each time, trying to get a different ending."

Most of this applies to Awakening. And this is merely describing a "typical game". It's not a check list you have to fulfill to be a dating sim.

And a "single optional mechanic"? A single mechanic that just so happens to hide a huge chunk of the cast, tons of levels on top of having tons of effects on a units performance.

There is even a fortune teller in the freaking main menu to ask about people's love with no purpose but to go with the theme. The mechanic is a massive part of the game.

And the point was that Awakening features the very same cast of sexual fantasies as your average dating sim. That's a huge deal, given that characters are a vital element of Fire Emblem.

If Awakening acts like a dating sim and has the same shallow fetishized cast like the average dating sim, then maybe it's accurate to call it a dating sim.

If there is anything else you find "unrelated" maybe you could give me more of a hint then merely a dozen "whuts".

Honest question: Why are you so bothered by the "sexualized representation of females" in Awakening? I've never seen a SINGLE girl complaining about it (EDIT: actually, there's katella, but just she). And it's not like the male clothes are any better, just look at the bersekers and the Sorcerers. There are 962385734985743y759834 valid reasons for disliking awakening, but IMO saying "it's full of fan-service!" is not one of them. It's something you can completely ignore, let the people that like it enjoy it (and no, I don't like it). It's not like it affects the gameplay or anything.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Nobody

[BrightBow]

Honest question: Why are you so bothered by the "sexualized representation of females" in Awakening? I've never seen a SINGLE girl complaining about it (EDIT: actually, there's katella, but just she). And it's not like the male clothes are any better, just look at the bersekers and the Sorcerers. There are 962385734985743y759834 valid reasons for disliking awakening, but IMO saying "it's full of fan-service!" is not one of them. It's something you can completely ignore, let the people that like it enjoy it (and no, I don't like it). It's not like it affects the gameplay or anything.

Because it is insulting that IS thinks that their male customers have a dick for a brain and prefer shallow lust objects over actual characters.

And you don't get to decide what are valid reasons to dislike the game. I can ignore it? How? Playing the game blindfolded?

[shadykid]

I'm pretty sure that dating sims revolve around dating, not making one army kill the other army through tactics and stuff.

yeah, well, I don't like it so I'm gonna call it a dating sim! /brightbow logic

[Nobody]

Because it is insulting that IS thinks that their male customers have a dick for a brain and prefer shallow lust objects over actual characters.

And you don't get to decide what are valid reasons to dislike the game. I can ignore it? How? Playing the game blindfolded?

I don't get to decide what's a valid reason to dislike awakening obviously, that's why I put the IMO before that.

Well, as awakening sales shows, some of their costumers DO have a dick for brain. They make money out of it. They're making video games to get money, not to white knight and "defend woman image on video games". It's the way life is. And it's not like there's any naked character there.

Although I find the notion of finding a cartoon character attractive beyond stupid. if I want to watch porn I'll go to xvideos or something like that, not play a video game lol

Also, the idea that woman should dress "decently" is actually a sexist act. People who defend gender equality believe that a woman can dress the way they want whenever they want. Thinking "those women dress with small clothes, they're sexualised" is a sexist way of thinking, when you don't do the same for the male characters (hello bersekers and sorcerers)

Edited September 27, 2013 by Nobody

[Florete]

Because it is insulting that IS thinks that their male customers have a dick for a brain and prefer shallow lust objects over actual characters.

Sex sells. Considering this could have been the last FE if it didn't sell well enough, I can take the fanservice. It's pretty mild, anyway. Really, it's not something to get so worked up over. Most of the characters are not completely defined by whatever sexual fetish they represent.

And no, this game is not a dating sim. To say so is to be completely ignorant of actual dating sims. It has similar elements for sure, but most importantly, in dating sims the dating is the primary mechanic; in here, it's the battles and tactics.

[Naui]

I wouldn't call it a dating SIM exactly.

The requirements for a Dating Sim IMO opinion requires the following:

1. Multiple Bachelors/Bachelorettes

2. Incentives for Dating/Marriage

3. Methods to increase affection

4. Affection Building Courting/Dating/Marriage Events

Multiple Bachelors/Bachelorettes? Oh yes. Incentives for relationship building? Yes indeed. Methods to increase affection? Sort of, not in the traditional way of a dating sim. In game affection building events? During Support building, yes, post S-Support, no, unless counting event tiles.

Compared to Harvest Moon and Rune Factory which has more dating sim-esque courting gameplay, Fire Emblem doesn't meet up with typical Dating sim features.

In fact, once your character's S-supports have finished there is no more events between the Avatar's spouses save Cordelia, Chrom, Tharja, and Gaius in Summer of Bonds. I suppose that after that it's more about your kids in the game which also branches out into Hot-Spring Scramble having the same features for the Avatar if the 4 "winners" are their children/spouse.

[BrightBow]

I don't get to decide what's a valid reason to dislike awakening obviously, that's why I put the IMO before that.

Well, as awakening sales shows, some of their costumers DO have a dick for brain. They make money out of it. They're making video games to get money, not to white knight and "defend woman image on video games". It's the way life is.

Although I find the notion of finding a cartoon character attractive beyond stupid. if I want to watch porn I'll go to xvideos or something like that, not play a video game lol

My apologies. I thought IMO means something along the lines of btw.

Also, it's not like Awakening doesn't have other qualities beyond the female class designs. So saying it's success is because of that is quite daring.

Nobody buys video games because of skimpy clothes. Everyone says "Sex sells" but nobody actually does that.

Because like you said, there is porn everywhere in reach of everyone who can unlock Spotpass content. And for free too. It's absurd to think people would bother with video games for that purpose.

[Tables]

"In a typical dating sim, the player controls a male avatar surrounded by female characters. The gameplay involves conversing with a selection of girls, attempting to increase their internal "love meter" through correct choices of dialogue. The game lasts for a fixed period of game time, such as one month or three years. When the game ends, the player either loses the game if he failed to properly win over any of the girls, or "finishes" one of the girls, often by having sex with her, marrying her (as in Magical Date), and/or achieving eternal love. This gives the games more replay value, since the player can focus on a different girl each time, trying to get a different ending."

Most of this applies to Awakening. And this is merely describing a "typical game". It's not a check list you have to fulfill to be a dating sim.

If by most you mean, there's an Avatar, there are some females, and the game has a fixed length. You seem to be intentionally ignoring everything about Awakening that contradicts the above:

• [li]The player doesn't control a single Avatar. You control an Avatar but it is not the focus of your play, merely one element of it.[/li]

  [li]You don't spend your time talking to females. There are females, and you have the option to talk to them, but the vast majority of interaction is non-romantic. Conversing with females is an extra piece of character development in the game, happens exactly the same way conversing with males happens, and contains about 2 minutes of romantic conversation per playthrough.[/li]

  [li]Marriage or non-marriage with a female is entirely irrelevant to your success in the game. It's not a major element of the game.[/li]

So from the above description, that leaves:

The game has a fixed length, and has replay value.

Holy crap Sherlock, that's definitely the vital elements of a dating sim!

And a "single optional mechanic"? A single mechanic that just so happens to hide a huge chunk of the cast, tons of levels on top of having tons of effects on a units performance.

...Much of which isn't romantic in the first place. I'm not even certain what you're trying to say here though. Not sure what the 'tons of levels' comment is about, or hiding characters. But yeah the fact that over 90% of supports available to most characters are non-romantic kind of kills your argument I think.

There is even a fortune teller in the freaking main menu to ask about people's love with no purpose but to go with the theme. The mechanic is a massive part of the game.

I really don't see how the fortune teller is significant, let alone a massive part of the game.

And the point was that Awakening features the very same cast of sexual fantasies as your average dating sim. That's a huge deal, given that characters are a vital element of Fire Emblem.

Fortunately it doesn't, by a long shot. Heck I would say that off the top of my head... one female is reasonably sexualised (Tiki)? Maybe there's one or two others I'm missing, but really, sexualisation isn't much of a thing.

If Awakening acts like a dating sim and has the same shallow fetishized cast like the average dating sim, then maybe it's accurate to call it a dating sim.

Neither of these are true by a long shot, at least.

If there is anything else you find "unrelated" maybe you could give me more of a hint then merely a dozen "whuts".

I'd love to, but my quota of reading dumb things has been used up for the day.

[Thor Odinson]

Actually most of the female mounted class models have battle panties it's pretty awful as if the miniskirts weren't bad enough already

Also introduction of the god-awful boob-plate into designs (peg knight armor) The series had such a good run without them it's a massive step back

Also what the fuck is even Nowi's outfit

Tiki's honestly the least of my concerns I'm more concerned about wearing this heavy suit or armor and can't even get some pants to cover my butt?

Edited September 27, 2013 by Ezio Auditore da Firenze

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

It's only a dating sim if your name is Rey.

[Snowy_One]

I'd laugh at someone who said that. Four conversations, of which likely only one is romantic, is NOT a 'dating sim' in any sense of the word. Heck, do any of the characters go out on any sort of actual dates at ALL during the game? Stabbing enemies together doesn't count.

[General Banzai]

not gonna lie FE has never been the paradigm of appropriately-dressed femmes

EXCEPT THRACIA, FUCK YEAH THRACIA

ROCK THOSE PANTS SELPHINA

anyway

i wouldn't say FE13 is a dating sim as much as it's nepeta leijon's wet dream

[Florete]

Also, it's not like Awakening doesn't have other qualities beyond the female class designs. So saying it's success is because of that is quite daring.

Nobody buys video games because of skimpy clothes. Everyone says "Sex sells" but nobody actually does that.

Because like you said, there is porn everywhere in reach of everyone who can unlock Spotpass content. And for free too. It's absurd to think people would bother with video games for that purpose.

When did you get the authority to speak for everyone? Can you back this up?

I got news for you: not everyone wants straight-up porn all the time. Some people don't even like porn (Crazy, I know). So saying "Lol just go on the internet for porn" is not the answer.

[shadowofchaos]

It's only a dating sim if your name is Rey.

This is assuming I went for the other girls' endings *NOT* against my will.

Who needs dating sims when I can SLEEP?

[Aquakat]

Well, this has been an... enlightening read of one person feeling the need to impress his opinion on others, and then backlashing when people try to argue (admittedly, some people argued far better than others).

I wouldn't call it a 'dating sim'. It's certainly more like a dating sim than past fire emblems (hi there, Avatar and voiced confession scenes), but considering that primary interactions revolve around conversations that are unlocked DURING A BATTLE and success in the game can be easily obtained without unlocking those 'romantic' scenes (in most supports, there's barely a hint of romance until the S support).

I think your friend, and some others, MIGHT be using the technically incorrect definition (in the western world, it's primarily used for a 'romance driven game' and I'm more or less certain it's more specific/technical than that), and then making an opinion based off of that incorrect assumption?

[Redwall]

Nobody buys video games because of skimpy clothes. Everyone says "Sex sells" but nobody actually does that.

Non-gameplay related things can do a lot to grab some peoples' attention. I don't think I would have bought Awakening were it not for this piano rendition of "Don't speak her name", for example.

[Airship Canon]

Non-gameplay related things can do a lot to grab some peoples' attention. I don't think I would have bought Awakening were it not for this piano rendition of "Don't speak her name", for example.

On a similar subject... I grabbed a certain game in 04 because of a couple seen in the intro.

...

[Anacybele]

Awakening? A dating sim? lol no. If it were, wouldn't involve, I dunno, dating? Which there's none of in this game? The point of the marriage system isn't to get to pretend to marry a fictional character, the point of it is to determine the stats and skills of their children. Yes, there's an Avatar that's essentially a self-insert that can marry anyone in the game, but this is an RPG thing, really. It's not called "role playing" for nothing.

[RJWalker]

I laugh at anyone who denies the females in this game are overly sexialized. The female characters are very much like those you would find in a typical dating sim. The incredibly shy girl, the jailbait, the nerd (give me a better term here, people), etc. Character with one defining personality with nothing else to really define them. So while FE13 itself isn't a dating sim, it's definitely trying to attract the dating sim crowd.

Sad thing is that the male character fare much better. Not of all them, mind you, but most of them. Reading Kellam's dialogue is painful. His is by the worst gimmick in the game. It's never funny and there's never any variation on that bad joke.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Snowy_One]

I laugh at anyone who denies the females in this game are overly sexialized. The female characters are very much like those you would find in a typical dating sim. The incredibly shy girl, the jailbait, the nerd (give me a better term here, people), etc. Character with one defining personality with nothing else to really define them. So while FE13 itself isn't a dating sim, it's definitely trying to attract the dating sim crowd.

Sad thing is that the male character fare much better. Not of all them, mind you, but most of them. Reading Kellam's dialogue is painful. His is by the worst gimmick in the game. It's never funny and there's never any variation on that bad joke.

That's a pretty shallow view to take of both female characters and characters in general. You are claiming that the girls are little more than character archtypes (specifically ones found in dating sims) while the males fair much better. First off, can you name a character archtype that ISN'T found in a 'typical' dating sim? Heck, you can easily find things like 'the crazy killer who seems perfectly sane' and 'the girl who just likes being alone because she likes being alone' in a 'typical' dating sim. What is a 'typical' dating sim anyways? Does something like Hatoi Boyfriend (I'm sure I'm misspelling the name) count? It is a dating sim after all, just one featuring birds instead of human beings except for the main character.

Lastly, why do you think the females are just 'archtypes' while the males are 'much better'? I found it to be more of the opposite. Virion is the high-class flirt, the axe-guy is forgetful because he's a stupid axe-user who only remembers his own pants because the women make sure he wears a belt, the guy so quiet everyone forgets he's there, the country hick/child, and so-forth. Why are the male characters 'better' than the females who are just 'archtypes'?

[Silver Lightning]

On a similar subject... I grabbed a certain game in 04 because of a couple seen in the intro.

...

Lloyd x Colette??? :3

And yeah, anyone who says FE13 is a dating sim has obviously never played an actual dating sim and has no idea what they're talking about. Unless dating sims today have suddenly become bashing heads with tactics and strategy.