link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Espinosa]

Sure, but would you really bother with magical weapons in LA?

[General Horace]

Magic can activate skills, just not E ranks or Nosferatu, can't they?

They definately can enemy Hayato has Luna.

EDIT misread

Edited March 5, 2016 by General Horace

[Nintales]

Sure, but would you really bother with magical weapons in LA?

Yeah but...

Cheese strats like BowKnight!Nyx and all... ;_;

To be honest though, Magical Weapons aren't that bad. They're pretty decent for an adventurer (especially Zero and Nyx), and the thing is that I'm curious if Lifetaker triggers after a kill with a Levin Sword.

[Espinosa]

They're decent for an adventurer but an adventurer is not decent.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Espinosa

[General Horace]

Lifetaker works with Magical weapons. Its only proc skills (and crits)

[Nintales]

They're decent for an adventurer but an adventurer is not decent.

34 base speed though is pretty decent. Base Zero has 37 speed on adventurer, allowing him to double some Hoshidian like Takumi.

Sent you the team.

[Espinosa]

Draconix Hex seems like such a broken skill. Scratch people with a bulky General or Oni Chieftain, weaken them, then ORKO with brave weapons or bows/melee weapons against bow users. The only reason we didn't notice how good it can actually be is because of Dragon Ward being so much more overpowered in defensive / recovery teams.

[Espinosa]

Just for the hell of it, here are all 22 class sets tiered by utility taking into account the present rules.

Top

Archer (Skill+2, Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu)

Nohr Prince (Dragon Fang, Hoshidan Unity, Draconic Hex)

Samurai (Duelist’s Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength)

Sky Knight (Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow, Air Superiority, Amaterasu)

High

Dark Mage (Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker)

Knight (Defence+2, Luna, Armored Blow, Wary Fighter, Pavise)

Mercenary (Good Fortune, Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker)

Spear Fighter (Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Lancefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic)

Troubadour (Resistance+2, Gentilhomme/Demoiselle, Inspiration, Tomebreaker)

Wyvern Rider (Strength+2, Swordbreaker, Savage Blow, Trample)

Mid

Cavalier (Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow)

Diviner (Magic+2, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic)

Fighter (HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker)

Kitsune (Evenhanded, Beastbane, Even Better, Grisly Wound)

Monk/Shrine Maiden (Miracle, Renewal, Countermagic, Tomefaire)

Oni Savage (Seal Resistance, Death Blow, Lancebreaker)

Outlaw (Lucky Seven, Shurikenbreaker)

Wolfskin (Odd Shaped, Beastbane, Better Ods, Grisly Wound)

Low

Ninja (Poison Strike, Shurikenfaire, Golembane)

Songstress (Luck+4, Voice of Peace, Foreign Princess)

Bottom

Villager (Profiteer, Spendthrift, Seal Strength)

Apothecary (if Profiteer, Spendthrift do nothing, only lolGolembane)

Basically, most of the skillsets are good? If Lethality is unbanned and Profiteer/Spendthrift do something, then basically only Azura remains in a sorta useless class, and I can see her skills being useful when buddy/marriage reclassing becomes a thing. Lethality could be limited by not letting the player combo it with Quixotic and Hoshidan Unity.

M/B reclassing will give the metagame a lot more freedom since the extra skills and classes basically turn this into a children meta of sorts... before we even consider checking out children.

[Jedi]

Question, are we not doing supports yet?

I'm still conceptualizing a team

[Espinosa]

In Awakening, we never used supports, and I feel this is going to be the case here. Same with attack/guard stance.

[Jedi]

In Awakening, we never used supports, and I feel this is going to be the case here. Same with attack/guard stance.

Ok, just double checking.

[Espinosa]

The class max stats sheet in the resource topic now contains hit/avo/crt/cev prior to personal modifiers as well as weapon rank caps. Ranks control how effective the weapon triangle goes against a target (+4 / -4 difference in atk/def when a dual weapon is involved) as well as the bonus a unit gets when not at WTA. The weapon triangle is generally a crucial thing in this metagame, it seems.

So go check it out.

[General Horace]

I don't think future games should be seperated by routes. Maybe as a novelty thing, but Nohr has most of the strongest weapons, nearly all the breakers, and actual useful personal skills (for the most part). At least allow weapons from both routes. Sure, Hoshido has seals and stuff but that doesn't matter if you just get brave'd to death or killer'd at good hit.

Killers seem ridiculous regardless of unit using them, x4 damage is pretty much the end. Might as well allow Hoshidans to use Life and Death and/or Counter if you're allowing killers. Counter is nowhere near as good as it was in awakening.

Edited March 6, 2016 by General Horace

[Espinosa]

The route separation thing was just a nice way to get introduced to the meta, since you'd know most of the teams (aside from Corrin/Kaze) would be different from the other.

Hoshido does have nearly all of the banned skills so far, but it's possible that something needs a ban on the Nohr side too - brave, killers or Wary Fighter perhaps?

Counter is definitely broken because outside of combat involving bows, all the damage you receive defending is taken at 1-range. It's not as absurd as it was in Awakening, but not terribly different either.

[General Horace]

I don't think braves are too bad because they have some pretty awful downsides, but killers are pretty much Lethality with a higher % chance that doesn't take a skill slot. Any time you can flat out OHKO a 44 defence general without skills is stupid.

[Nintales]

I don't think future games should be seperated by routes. Maybe as a novelty thing, but Nohr has most of the strongest weapons, nearly all the breakers, and actual useful personal skills (for the most part). At least allow weapons from both routes. Sure, Hoshido has seals and stuff but that doesn't matter if you just get brave'd to death or killer'd at good hit.

Killers seem ridiculous regardless of unit using them, x4 damage is pretty much the end. Might as well allow Hoshidans to use Life and Death and/or Counter if you're allowing killers. Counter is nowhere near as good as it was in awakening.

Yeah but Hoshido has the ridiculously powerful tomes. I just don't want to imagine some of them with Nyx or Niles, or even Leo.

I can agree on killers looking pretty ridiculous though. Give them to a high crit character (Charlotte against a Woman, for example) > Attack > ??? > Win

Edited March 6, 2016 by Nintales

[General Horace]

I don't personally think any of the scrolls are particularly noteworthy. Sure, horse spirit has a bunch of boosts, but it has 4 might. Calamity Gate is pretty good I guess. I didn't use them because the magic user classes on Hoshido are AWFUL.

[Espinosa]

I also don't find tome users to be very worthwhile. Maybe Witches will be good? idk

Nohrian killers have nothing on the Great Club with its 55 crit. But yeah, 4x damage is way more than any skill proc can achieve.

[General Horace]

The great club also has 45 hit, and none of the characters with +hit skills aside from Subaki actually use axes.

It should still be banned though probably.

[Espinosa]

Master of Arms Mozu with Archer skillset / Raven Strike access is one, though only on her turn. There'll be more when we expand and allow friend and/or spouse reclassing.

Also Horace, based on ingame experience, Mozu deals 5 dmg to an enemy on PP, debuffs defence by 2 points, levels in strength, then deals 7 dmg on same enemy phase. It appears that debuffs start slowly diminishing beginning with the party's next turn, so it might be advisable to show it at the very end of the current turn (i.e. the stats at the end of a run show the units' stats for the following turn, minus HP with its recovery).

[General Horace]

Yeah, that's a good idea, I'll start doing that now.

I forgot about Mozu mostly because i had no idea what villager promoted to

[Nintales]

I don't personally think any of the scrolls are particularly noteworthy. Sure, horse spirit has a bunch of boosts, but it has 4 might. Calamity Gate is pretty good I guess. I didn't use them because the magic user classes on Hoshido are AWFUL.

Hana has Vantage + Renewal + Duelist's Blow though. That gives her pretty much advantage over almost anything, especially if you add Tomefaire and Astra.

Sure, she has 22 defense but Hoshido has Snake Spirit that allows her to destroy instantly anything or Horse Spirit for better stats.

[General Horace]

Sounds great until she gets OHKO'd by a berserker or ORKO'd by a brave weapon. Onmyoji's have horrible caps.

[Nintales]

Sounds great until she gets OHKO'd by a berserker or ORKO'd by a brave weapon. Onmyoji's have horrible caps.

well

uh

Miracle I guess

just pray

[Espinosa]

So do the Blow skills really work with Vantage? It'd be really easy to test, but I think I'd really notice if my Ryoma suddenly became completely invincible at below 50% hp ingame, so this can't be the case.