link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Espinosa]

It's a good observation that effective weapons are hardly ever whipped out. Sages (which is mainly Calill) rarely utilise effective tomes, and before Giffca and co. are forced to switch to the Laguz Band / Demi Band in the case of the other Laguz, the tome user is probably done.

Bows still seem like very potent weapons when you want to avoid a counter, and Snipers remain really useful. This gives the fliers a slight boost, though some players may not like Tibarn getting a buff since Tibarn is one of the stall-oriented characters who remain in the metagame if we ban Nasir, or both Nasir and Ena.

Also, I have barely seen any discussion about a potential FE4 arena. I added average caps for first generation characters to the sticky thread (though I'll have to go over the names and correct them to the latest version).

It's interesting how that one may work out - I'm thinking holy weapons definitely need a ban seeing how huge the boost they grant is. Especially the +20 spd ones.

[Refa]

I don't know how an FE4 Link Arena would work honestly. Any ideas?

[General Horace]

i dont know either what with critical on weapons being number of kills and such... It'd honestly probably be better without crit on weapons in my opinion.

it'd have more customization if we added second gen units for different skill combos and such but it'd be a pain to do averages, and would obselete first gen units.

Edited April 2, 2014 by General Horace

[Espinosa]

- Could we try going for max stats for second gen characters? To avoid the necessity of calculating their averages (though it's doable and I have a bookmark which lets me do this pretty easily, but the table I will embed will be a bit too big)

- Can't we remove the kill count mechanic?

- Also, since I don't remember anything about this game anymore, can equipped items, like Speed Ring, increase a character's stat to exceed their cap? I'm pretty sure weapons like Holsety do that, so I'm guessing that so do the items.

- What about the Lovers / jealousy thing? Can a character receive boosts from two lovers this way?

[General Horace]

- Could we try going for max stats for second gen characters? To avoid the necessity of calculating their averages (though it's doable and I have a bookmark which lets me do this pretty easily, but the table I will embed will be a bit too big)

- Can't we remove the kill count mechanic?

- Also, since I don't remember anything about this game anymore, can equipped items, like Speed Ring, increase a character's stat to exceed their cap? I'm pretty sure weapons like Holsety do that, so I'm guessing that so do the items.

- What about the Lovers / jealousy thing? Can a character receive boosts from two lovers this way?

I think averages would be better personally, some classes have really horrible caps (namely bow knights, generals, and lord knights) that would make them pretty unusable, and then you have some like Master knights that are totally broken (although some of the damage can be mitigated by rings and such)

I agree we should remove kill counts, because it nullifies critical as a skill.

Rings exceed caps, yes.

Jealousy doesn't provide any bonuses in combat, it's just a mechanic to boost love growths. I think implementing stuff like Sibling crits, and lovers would be alright though, its pretty much the same thing as supports anyway, and nihil negates crits in this game anyway. I forget it it negates wrath crits, since it only negates some skills (luna/astra/sol I think) so I'm not sure if it negates wrath.

Edited April 2, 2014 by General Horace

[Espinosa]

Isn't critical w/o the kill counts just equal to user's skill stat?

Also, does Awareness negate just three skills?

I'm adding some gen 2 stuff right now, and Leaf's averages are pretty monstrous. Haven't got to any of the kids with multiple fathers yet, though.

Looks like I've exceeded the amount of code tags for the first post and 70% of the sticky is actually not displayed any longer - everything is there when I go to Edit mode however. I think I'll be merging it with the following post.

I think the best thing to do right now is to finish adding the Radiant Dawn portraits so that there's at least some consistency in the order of posts in the FAQ. Then I can fix the OP again.

edit: nvm I'm dumb. I just hid the whole post under an erroneously made spoiler code.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Espinosa

[Refa]

Nihil negates everything except Pursuit, Continue, and Charge.

[Icon of Sin]

Only if they have the Critical skill. In the first generation, Noish, Ethlin, Levin and the Killer Bow users have it.

Awareness seems to negate all sorts of criticals, whether from the Critical skill, Wrath or effective weapon bonuses. Sword skills are negated as well. I'm pretty sure it doesn't negate Big Shield, Prayer or Ambush though.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Woodshooter

[General Horace]

masterknights are pretty op

and yeah units with the crit skill is just skill%. Otherwise units can't crit without wrath/lover/sibling/weapon crit

yeah afaik awareness only cancels the swordskills and crit. Still not sure about wrath.

@Refa it doesn't cancel Ambush or BIG SHIELD or prayer or im forgetting some more i think

Edited April 3, 2014 by General Horace

[Refa]

Shanan would be the best in max stats. He'd double literally every other unit in the game.

EDIT Yeah, holy weapons are banned shutup.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Refa

[General Horace]

NOT SPEEDRING HOLSETY LEVIN/SETY

Also this random gfaq's guide says that Awareness cancels wrath, but I don't know if I trust it.

Edited April 3, 2014 by General Horace

[Refa]

NOT SPEEDRING HOLSETY LEVIN/SETY

Also this random gfaq's guide says that Awareness cancels wrath, but I don't know if I trust it.

Julius has Wrath, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I'm pretty sure it does. It'd be easy to test!

[Espinosa]

In averages, Leaf ties Shanan in speed and rapes him pretty much everywhere else.

I think I might also add which skills each character and child build has. There are no variations outside of the choice of father, right (like some scrolls that you can teach to a dad that could later be passed on)? Last time I played FE4, it was in faceroll mode so I quickly forgot all the nuances that I wasn't even very attentive of.

[General Horace]

Yeah, now that you mention it, you're right.

There aren't any scroll in FE4, only rings. You get one of each of the uhh

Pursuit, Prayer, and Life rings which are essentially scrolls that take up an inventory slot.

EDIT you can get two life rings apparently

EDIT EDIT: Does the chapter 3 wyvern boss really drop a life ring? I never kill him because i'm usually done the chapter :/ If so, that's three.

EDIT EDIT EDIT: he does have one but its also the same as Ishtar's life ring so there's only 2.

Edited April 3, 2014 by General Horace

[Tables]

For FE4 averages I assume that you'd want to assume parents are level 30 at the end of gen 1, with average stats? It seems to be the way child base averages are calculated anyway. I would suggest starting with average stats - probably including relevant conversation bonuses - no holy weapons (because we don't want every team being some mix of Seliph, Lewyn!Sety, Shanan, Ares, Altena, and a Faval), no weapon critical and sibling/lover crit included. Also include rings - perhaps with some limits like max 2-3 rings each?

For skills, Nihil/Awareness does cancel Wrath, I'm fairly sure. Otherwise Seliph taking down Julius would be almost impossible.

[Espinosa]

This is what the 2nd gen stats will look like:

Unit           HP  Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Def  Res  Lck

Alec!Lana      60   12   23   22   22   15   11   30
Ardan!Lana     63   14   23   17   21   16   10   29
Azel!Lana      62    8   27   20   23   13   12   30
Beowolf!Lana   61   13   23   22   22   15   10   30
Claud!Lana     58    8   27   20   22   13   19   30
Dew!Lana       55   12   24   22   23   15   12   30
Finn!Lana      60   12   23   22   22   15   11   30
Holyn!Lana     69   12   23   24   22   15   11   30
Jamke!Lana     63   14   23   18   22   15   10   30
Lewyn!Lana     62    8   26   22   23   13   12   30
Lex!Lana       66   13   23   20   22   18   10   30
Midayle!Lana   58   12   23   21   23   15   11   29
Noish!Lana     61   13   23   21   21   16   10   30

After Lck, it may be a good idea to list all skills available to units. Not sure if their number will be too long to fit on one line, but we can shorten names.

Another issue for me will definitely be the weapon ranks. They're fixed, which is good, but all the major/minor blood makes my head hurt since I never played through an intelligent, well-planned runthrough of the game.

[Icon of Sin]

Basically a Major makes it an S rank equivalent. Only Holyn X Ayra makes it Major without another Major being involved. Claude X Sylvia makes both kids have Major instead of one Major and one Minor as well.

Minor only raises the rank up by one, but stops at A.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Woodshooter

[General Horace]

If you'd like I could put together a list of children weapon ranks and skills to save you some time.

Edited April 3, 2014 by General Horace

[Refa]

Also keep in mind that Base Luck can have a variance of +0 to +10 lol. Also in game events which boost character stats. Man, it'd be a real pain to calculate stats.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Refa

[Espinosa]

Basically a Major makes it an S rank equivalent. Only Holyn X Ayra makes it Major without another Major being involved. Claude X Sylvia makes both kids have Major instead of one Major and one Minor as well.

Minor only raises the rank up by one, but stops at A.

Ah, I see, that's not too bad then.

If you'd like I could put together a list of children weapon ranks and skills to save you some time.

That'd be great since you're much more familiar with the material.

Also keep in mind that Base Luck can have a variance of +0 to +10 lol. Also in game events which boost character stats. Man, it'd be a real pain to calculate stats.

Really, just for some units or everyone? And I haven't been adding up event boosts just yet - plenty of them are mutually exclusive, right?

And yeah, we're going there - everything getting calculated is only a matter of time (will probably round up the raw stats by tomorrow).

Edited April 3, 2014 by Espinosa

[Espinosa]

Just realised the total number of possible Father!Child variations is 182. This is going to be fun haha.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Espinosa

[Refa]

For the children units. Here's the formula.

= [(Main parent's Luck addition x 2) + Secondary parent's Luck addition + Random number] / 10] }+ Child's Luck addition + 1

Wherein the random number is between 0 and 99.

EDIT A lot of the second generation events are mutually exclusive, but most of the first generation ones aren't (well, the ones that give you stats which is like a miniscule amount)

Edited April 3, 2014 by Refa

[Espinosa]

What are the additions? Stats at the end of the first generation? If the father is Finn, does him levelling up Luck (which he does frequently enough) continue affecting the child's?

Any place where I can find precisely children's luck additions and not anything other luck stats?

I guess I'll have to re-visit the children's luck stats, but maybe the process can be simplified just for convenience sake?

[General Horace]

What are the additions? Stats at the end of the first generation? If the father is Finn, does him levelling up Luck (which he does frequently enough) continue affecting the child's?

Any place where I can find precisely children's luck additions and not anything other luck stats?

I guess I'll have to re-visit the children's luck stats, but maybe the process can be simplified just for convenience sake?

the parent additions are just their luck stats, I can't actually find the child luck additions anywhere though :/

the base stats onsite for luck should be fine honestly, they already take into account level 30 parents

Edited April 3, 2014 by General Horace

[Refa]

It's

= (Level - 1) x stat growth rate

For all non HP stats.

EDIT clearly you should add +10 to everyone's Luck stat.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Refa