Unnamed Mafia (anon) - Game Over

[Marisa Kirisame]

scum doctor is functional goon without any town/itp killing power

Eh, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it existed solely to fuck with rolespec, as I said before. This setup feels like a bastard that doesn't really seem to be a bastard.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

What does that even mean seriously

[Grace]

Notices:

1) MYLO/LYLO are separate cases.

2) If you have problems with "bastard setup", a) take it to PM and b) you don't know what the setup exactly is.

3) This setup is not bastard.

Good day.

[Aizen]

Eiki: oh, uh, good point. (re: "why would scum tailor claim")

I don't think it possible that Town has two protective roles, on top of Grillmaster's scummy behaviour and his absurd not telegraphed swap from "IT is the scums" to "IT is so Town I have to Doc him." Especially in light of his first response to my claim being "how do you know someone else wasn't responsible?"

CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:

If you are a Town Doctor.

And someone claims Jailer.

Would your first response be, "Maybe someone else blocked the kill!", or would it be, "FUCK YOU, I am a Doctor, there's NO WAY we have two protective roles"?

My thought process was "wait, what info role gives you the info you've claimed?" followed by realizing it wasn't an info role, followed by "well fuck, there goes my townread on IT, now I actually have to pay attention to him." Also I've been told that the doctor claiming is always bad, so I didn't want to do it. Until all the claims happened, I thought it was actually more likely that you got hooked and I stopped the kill than that I was a kill target.

##Vote: Fluffy Platypus

I think we've been specifically discouraged from rolespec, so I'm going to go for the person I think is the scummiest.

[All Might]

also scum doctor is a fairly common fakeclaim and only is super towncred++ if it actually gets inspected by the rolecop.

asfdadfasdfafgadg

I want to just say fuck roles, since that is clearly the intention of this setup regardless of which of our theories is correct and just lynch fluffy.

atm my lynch priority goes fluffy > grillmaster > beethoven/insane > eiki > reinbach

[Cú Chulainn]

Did I say sleep? I meant jam F5 repeatedly.

I thought it was actually more likely that you got hooked and I stopped the kill

You thought it more likely that I was Town Jailer alongside you being Town Doctor than any alternative?

followed by "well fuck, there goes my townread on IT, now I actually have to pay attention to him."

... But if you thought it more likely that I was hooked and you blocked a kill on IT, why did you think your Townread on IT was bad now?

YeahokayIreallyneedsleepturningthisthingoff.

[Aizen]

I can't help but read Grillmaster's defense of Reinbach as being partly fueled by Reinbach clearing him. The unexplained town read on IT could be attributed to IT dropping his cases on Grillmaster in N1. He said he felt better about Dragonite as opposed to Fluffy in D2. Guess who Dragonite had dropped as scum earlier that phase?

I dunno, maybe Reinbach biased me, but the other things... why would I go out of my way to say "I HAVE A TOWNREAD ON IT, IT IS TOWN GUYS" and then not explain it if I wasn't trying to crumb role results? I'm pretty sure I announced that townread unprompted. And Dragonite's case on me was complete crap, and so was Fluffy's, so I read Dragonite's apology about the case, got a town vibe from it, and thought Fluffy was worse on the whole.

Also, I know we've had a lot of stuff since the day started, but Fluffy, you never answered my question from N2 of why you think I'm scummy. You did, however, reiterate your "I'm still confident he's scum" line without giving any actual evidence. If you're tunneling IN LYLO, at least explain, please.

[Aizen]

You thought it more likely that I was Town Jailer alongside you being Town Doctor than any alternative?

... But if you thought it more likely that I was hooked and you blocked a kill on IT, why did you think your Townread on IT was bad now?

First bit: uh, I didn't necessarily think that at the time--I mentioned three possibilities; one of them is that you were scum making things up, the other two were that you were roleblocked or that someone else roleblocked the kill--but I do now.

Second bit: I meant that IT was no longer conf!town FMPOV. I wasn't sure whether to believe you were scum or not.

[Rain Nijika]

Okay ... if I disregard all role claims and look just at people's behaviors, I still think Fluffy Platypus stands out as the worst. He has this really irritating habit of lurking and saying little (if anything at all) until someone calls him out directly and asks him to elaborate on his reads. This was especially apparent right after D3 started, when everyone was online and giving their reads and thoughts, and FP did nothing except for when I called him out on not contributing. I don't see how this is town behavior at all.

Also, Grillmaster seems to have an interesting relationship with rolespeccing. He gets annoyed when he's suspected on rolespec, which is honestly understandable, but he uses rolespec to suspect other people in the way he doesn't want to be suspected. (Hot Wheels is scum because he's miller, just miller, most likely to be arsonist, lolManixhostmeta). This strikes me as scummy. Why is it okay for you to use rolespec against others but not okay for others to use rolespec against you?

Taking all claims and night actions into consideration, Beethoven has to be the source of the stopped kill on N1 as long as he was successful one way or another and IT had to either be the killer or the target on N2. (I really hope there are no redirecting roles in this game to mess up claimed night actions even more.)

Ugh ... at this point, I'd advocate lynching either Fluffy Platypus (on the grounds that his behavior is not townie) or Grillmaster (on the grounds of role and night action shenanigans). As for Reinbach scanning Grillmaster as doctor, we just had a game where the doctor was also the SK and an earlier game where the scum godmother scanned as doctor as long as she had a bulletproof vest, so it's not that impossible for Grillmaster to be scum and doctor.

[charlie_]

Votals:

Fluffy Platypus (1): The Grillmaster

Not Voting (6): Everyone else

You have 32 hours and 39 minutes left in the phase, if my counting isn't dreadful.

[All Might]

since there's been sufficient time since the vote, I think that confirms that either fluffy is scum, grillmaster is scum, or we have a situation without 3 mafia. though I think we ruled out 3 mafia anyways since in that case it would have been MYLO yeserday?

manix/sb, are *ylo and potential *ylo separated? Is a loss guaranteed if we don't lynch scum today or is there a possibility that we could still win following a no lynch today. assuming anti-town doesn't purposely idle or whatever of course.

[Grace]

@Hot Wheels

1) MYLO/LYLO are separate cases.

Potential is extended to this point. If you do not lynch correctly today, town will lose.

5c: No Lynch is not an available vote option.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Manix

[All Might]

hmm so. the only options I can think of at this point are cult or a 6/2/1 start with an arsonist or something, but in that case it would still be 4/2/1, which is technically not guaranteed lylo, or even guaranteed mylo for that matter. like if the arsonist didn't spring (plausible as hitting two townies could result in mafia gaining parity and auto-winning) and then the mafia killed them, it'd still be 3/2 after a mislynch. but I don't get why I haven't been culted by now if there really is a cult.

ugh this sucks. what is everyone's lynch priority?

[Cú Chulainn]

In other words, if we don't lynch correctly, there's no roleblock nor doctor that's able to save us tonight? I had to doublecheck my Role PM to see if I wasn't secretly scum after all, but no.

So that means our threat is able to bypass roleblocks and protections, otherwise there would always exist the potential of a Beethoven Jailing shutting down the enemy's offence. I can think of only one who is able to bypass that.

##Vote: Manix

tl;dr I have no idea what to think of the roles now. Shiki still makes me worried thinking compulsive tailor may just be cult recruiter or whatever, lack of night kills has me baffled and I just don't know.

I'm going to stop trying to make sense of it and say that I still want to lynch Grillmaster. Can someone succinctly summarise why Fluffy Platypus is the scums?

[All Might]

first off he had a shit vote near the end of rvs that was a blatant misrep. yeah ed1 and all but it still bothers me that he never responded directly to the accusations leveled against him at that time. when he came in near the end of d1 he kind of just gave some reads and that's it. and then those reads were mostly just a bunch of townreads, which isn't that bad, but they all had exceptions in them that could let him change his opinion there at any time, like "if miller claim holds up" or "if reinbach posts more content" or "dragonite picking apart the wagon is kind of weird, but just weird, not scummy".

then the timing of the voteswitch to dragonite was really bad. the votes for dragonite/fluffy/grillmaster were 3/2/2, with fluffy voting for grillmaster. then eiki shiki votes fluffy to make it 3/3/2 and insane switches his vote just after from dragonite to eiki shiki, making it 2/3/2. and then just after that he comes in and switches to dragonite to tie the wagons up again. that looks a lot like a desperation wagon hop. also note that from the end of d1 to near the end of n1 he has no real problems with dragonite (#107, #144). then suddenly in #150 he's "not sure what to make of dragonite". except in #144 he has nars listed in his lynch priority purely for poe reasons, while dragonite receives no mention whatsoever. yeah some people vote for dragonite in the meantime but this is all just a reiteration of stuff said during n1; it's nothing new. so he has that random opinion shift and then the vote comes solely based on that and dragonite's #166.

here's the kicker. when he's pressured near the end of d2 to explain the reasons for his switch to dragonite, he says it's because he wanted to prevent a mislynch and vote for scum. except the person he was voting for before was grillmaster, who also was, and is, a scumread. he's trying to give his vote there extra reasoning where it couldn't have existed because the real reason was the votes switching to suddenly make fluffy the main wagon.

[All Might]

well it's guaranteed lylo in combination with the fact that no lynch is simply not an option, I think. so lynching not-correctly means mislynching, after which a 3p scumteam could get parity and automatically win. but that would rely on a 3p scumteam existing in the first place. ugh.

[Estelle]

Manix is a good vote.

I'm OK lynching both Grillmaster and Fluffy. Would probably prefer Fluffy since he's a lot scummier when you discount roles.

[Estelle]

Basically I don't think it's improbable for Grill to be bussing since one of the two was pretty much sunk today. HW's case is solid and I don't feel like repeating it but yep. Also think Fluffy has been staying under the radar today by posting minimally + not contributing much while around, as scum who is essentially fucked is apt to do in the face of constant role shenanigans.

[Rain Nijika]

Since we're in definite LYLO, we don't have any room to screw up. Taking everything into consideration, I am the most comfortable with lynching Fluffy Platypus. Hot Wheels outlines the case on FP pretty well, but there's also his dodgy behavior all throughout yesterday. You'd think that he'd be posting a lot of content to make up for what he missed, and would have a bit more urgency when it was announced we were in LYLO. But he only shows up when he's called upon.

Grillmaster would probably be my next option after FP because of the claimed roles and night actions. From what we know, the only person who could have stopped a kill on N1 is Beethoven. His tunneling on Grillmaster in D2 actually makes sense if he had believed that he stopped a kill, and his crumb+claim had been done believably. I'm just inclined to believe Beethoven over Grillmaster.

As for Hot Wheels, Reinbach, and Insane Techniques, I have no clue right now.

[Aizen]

Also, Grillmaster seems to have an interesting relationship with rolespeccing. He gets annoyed when he's suspected on rolespec, which is honestly understandable, but he uses rolespec to suspect other people in the way he doesn't want to be suspected. (Hot Wheels is scum because he's miller, just miller, most likely to be arsonist, lolManixhostmeta). This strikes me as scummy. Why is it okay for you to use rolespec against others but not okay for others to use rolespec against you?

Taking all claims and night actions into consideration, Beethoven has to be the source of the stopped kill on N1 as long as he was successful one way or another and IT had to either be the killer or the target on N2. (I really hope there are no redirecting roles in this game to mess up claimed night actions even more.)

Being accused based on rolespec is frustrating because I know it's wrong but there's no defense. But if I don't actually get voted for it, then eh whatever. Rolespec that doesn't turn into votes is fine, unless it looks like it *should* turn into a vote and there's something scummy about why it doesn't, given the context. I'm not voting based on rolespec. I'm voting based on scummy behavior.

Also, scum hooker on Beethoven or scum driver on me (or scum!Beethoven faking) could mean that I was the source of the no-kill on N1. (Although jailkeeper is a weird role to try to fake so I guess Beethoven's roleclaim is legit.)

Am I correct in saying that one of these things is true?

1. Scum has no kill

2. (Scum tried to kill me N1 or I am scum) and (scum tried to kill IT N2 or IT is scum)

3. Someone is lying about their role/actions

FMPOV #3 is the most likely, so I'm not putting too much stock in roleclaims.

[Marisa Kirisame]

##Vote: Grillmaster

My case for him being scum during the past couple of days hasn't changed since D1. But now he's added a major fuckup to that list. He's scum FMPOV since there was no quickhammer on me (which there likely would've been if he weren't scum, if we're assuming a three-man scumteam) or there's only two scum, in which case my vote won't kill him. Then there's his claim, which seems bogus since there's enough protective roles for town anyway to prevent NKs.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

here's the kicker. when he's pressured near the end of d2 to explain the reasons for his switch to dragonite, he says it's because he wanted to prevent a mislynch and vote for scum. except the person he was voting for before was grillmaster, who also was, and is, a scumread. he's trying to give his vote there extra reasoning where it couldn't have existed because the real reason was the votes switching to suddenly make fluffy the main wagon.

Taking into account that the only two wagons at the time were FoolyPooly and DrugoKnight, it logically follows that FP is referring to himself when he states that he wants to prevent a mislynch...

well it's guaranteed lylo in combination with the fact that no lynch is simply not an option, I think. so lynching not-correctly means mislynching, after which a 3p scumteam could get parity and automatically win. but that would rely on a 3p scumteam existing in the first place. ugh.

Couldn't there be a survivor who could scum side?

Then there's his claim, which seems bogus since there's enough protective roles for town anyway to prevent NKs.

His claim can only be bogus if either I or Shiki are lying about our roles/alignments (or if there's an unannounced scum!tailor, I suppose). What do you make of this?

Will clearly state my lynch priority shortly, there's just some rereading I must attend too first. And maybe dinner, I do very much like to eat.

[Rain Nijika]

Scum from your POV, maybe. But from the rest of our POVs it doesn't exclude the possibility of you being scum, or both of you being scum and bussing the hell out of each other. There's also your actions and lack of really saying anything about anyone else, which is scummier than any claim to me.

[Rain Nijika]

Nice ninja, Reinbach. Now my response looks funny because it's not right below FP's.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Scum from your POV, maybe. But from the rest of our POVs it doesn't exclude the possibility of you being scum, or both of you being scum and bussing the hell out of each other. There's also your actions and lack of really saying anything about anyone else, which is scummier than any claim to me.

Grill's doing the same thing that you're accusing me of doing in the bolded, which I find hilarious that you're using that argument for scum!me as opposed to Grill. And I'm not denying that I'm not looking too much at anyone else because I'm just that sure that he's scum.

His claim can only be bogus if either I or Shiki are lying about our roles/alignments (or if there's an unannounced scum!tailor, I suppose). What do you make of this?

Will clearly state my lynch priority shortly, there's just some rereading I must attend too first. And maybe dinner, I do very much like to eat.

I'm starting to think that there's an unclaimed tailor, tbh. I'm not sure who I suspect to be that... HW, maybe? Or do you one of two have clears on him as well?