The best designed character in Awakening is Lucina.

[Interceptor]

Oh, I'm aware of that. I just don't like how Lucina looks EXACTLY like a female Marth. There's nothing really different about her aside from her gender. And that bores me to tears.

And the mask, and the sword. But really, it's supposed to look the same; That's The Point™. If they tried to make a Marth throw-back outfit, and instead it ended up looking like Cap'n Crunch, that'd be a fail.

[PKL]

Lucina canonically beats Lon'qu. So Lucina it is. Plus, she cosplays my fave lord.

[Airship Canon]

And the mask, and the sword. But really, it's supposed to look the same; That's The Point™. If they tried to make a Marth throw-back outfit, and instead it ended up looking like Cap'n Crunch, that'd be a fail.

Also her personality.

But that's going off topic.

[amadeuscho]

Hard to say no to the throwback Marth outfit. Easy to say no to "Batman rip-off".

So it's Lon'qu vs "I only exist to allow male Avatars to marry a Lord" vs Batman wannabe.

Lon'qu anyday.

As someone who reads a fair amount of Batman comics, I was just joking about the Batman thing with Gerome. His personality is actually very different than Batman (who is actually a bit more hopeful, even though he tries not to show it), and his mask is more akin to the generic domino mask that Nightwing or Robin wear (who he resembles really in no way in terms of personality). The all black is fairly common so it's not like is a dead ringer for a Batman clone. The fact that Gerome has given up completely when you first meet him indicates he is the exact opposite of Batman.

With Lucina, I think it would be a discredit to Yusuke Kozaki's design skills to consider anything close to a rip off. Without Lucina's headband, it would be harder to see the connections between the characters, as it's actually an original design. The color tones are all different, as is the type of armor she wears. Hence, why in game they had to come up with a Marth redesign, rather just rely on the similar features between characters.

Let's see if my hypothesis is true:

You can make the judgements for yourself, but to me it seems pretty clear how different the designs actually are.

Also her personality.

But that's going off topic.

I don't think it's off topic as personality matching up with a design is part of what can make it great.

We've hit fifty, so by 12 pm EST today I will be closing the polls.

[BrightBow]

Lucina canonically beats Lon'qu. So Lucina it is. Plus, she cosplays my fave lord.

Well, she beat him. But that the script felt the need to have Basillo state that he thinks that Lonqu is Lucina's equal and that he can't believe she beat him so easily, heavily implies that her curb stomping him was merely the result of his fear of woman.

Basillo: ...he's peerless with a sword. As good as Marth, in my mind. To be honest, I can't figure out how Marth bested him so quickly.

Edited November 19, 2013 by BrightBow

[Interceptor]

Batman thing with Gerome

I was personally only referring to the outfit. Agreed about Nightwing, who was the character I was thinking of, but you got the joke in first.

With Lucina, I think it would be a discredit to Yusuke Kozaki's design skills to consider anything close to a rip off.

I maintain that you can't "rip off" your own IP. It's clearly inspired by Marth's outfit, but that's sort of the point, seeing as how Marth is like the Mario of this series. There are differences, but basically you can draw a line from one to the other. That doesn't take anything away from YK, in my opinion, who did an excellent job on the update.

[amadeuscho]

I maintain that you can't "rip off" your own IP. It's clearly inspired by Marth's outfit, but that's sort of the point, seeing as how Marth is like the Mario of this series. There are differences, but basically you can draw a line from one to the other. That doesn't take anything away from YK, in my opinion, who did an excellent job on the update.

I wasn't talking about you. I definitely agree with what you're saying.

I would even go so far to say that, minus the Marth headband, if the game didn't tell you Lucina looked like Marth (by her calling herself Marth), that wouldn't be your first thought. Just about every piece in Marth's outfit has been either replaced or dramatically updated.

[shadowofchaos]

Well, she beat him. But that the script felt the need to have Basillo state that he thinks that Lonqu is Lucina's equal and that he can't believe she beat him so easily, heavily implies that her curb stomping him was merely the result of his fear of woman.

Basillo: ...he's peerless with a sword. As good as Marth, in my mind. To be honest, I can't figure out how Marth bested him so quickly.

Breasts.

And I mean literally. The split second of him hesitating got her the chance she needed to win.

[amadeuscho]

and the results are in!

By a margin of one vote, Lucina defeats Lon'qu. Lucina has the best design in Awakening! According to this poll. Feel free to discuss the results!

Final Tally:
Lucina: 22

Lon'qu: 21
Gerome: 16

Lucina and Lon'qu were the early favorites, but Gerome has a strong base of support as well.

Characters who no one votes for in round 1:
Vaike
Ricken

Kellam

Sully
Miriel

No votes, round 2:
Chrom

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Boo, was hoping Lon'qu would win. But, oh well, I like Lucina's design too, she'd probably be in my Top 5.

[RJWalker]

I wasn't talking about you. I definitely agree with what you're saying.

I would even go so far to say that, minus the Marth headband, if the game didn't tell you Lucina looked like Marth (by her calling herself Marth), that wouldn't be your first thought. Just about every piece in Marth's outfit has been either replaced or dramatically updated.

Because when the trailer first came out, everybody totally thought that the masked character was an original character and nobody thought it was Marrth, right? Right?

[Shotguner159]

Because when the trailer first came out, everybody totally thought that the masked character was an original character and nobody thought it was Marrth, right? Right?

He does say minus the headband, which even this site mentions as a reason that they look similar.

[Anacybele]

And the mask, and the sword. But really, it's supposed to look the same; That's The Point™. If they tried to make a Marth throw-back outfit, and instead it ended up looking like Cap'n Crunch, that'd be a fail.

The mask I'll give you, but the sword is still Falchion, only reforged. And I don't like that it's the point. I don't like Marth's design, so I don't like any throwbacks to it. That's the point I'VE been trying to make.

[PandaCelt]

I know that everybody loves Gerome, but I don't really like him. He's all morbid and lonely and even though he wears a cool mask, he just doesn't really appeal to me. Lon'qu is a good unit, but I think his personality is kind of boring. I like Lucina, and I think it's funny the way, in her support with Tiki, Lucina is seen as some sort of prodigy, like Marth. Chrom must be feeling pretty ticked off. :D

Edited November 20, 2013 by PandaCelt

[Interceptor]

The mask I'll give you, but the sword is still Falchion, only reforged. And I don't like that it's the point. I don't like Marth's design, so I don't like any throwbacks to it. That's the point I'VE been trying to make.

Or in other words, the sword is different.

It's fine that you don't like it, but there's no need to manufacture reasons to justify that. Lucina's outfit is inspired by -- but is not a copy of -- Marth's. They are undeniably related. They are not identical. If someone holds the idea that the only difference between them is boobs, that person is wrong.

[amadeuscho]

Because when the trailer first came out, everybody totally thought that the masked character was an original character and nobody thought it was Marrth, right? Right?

last time I check, when the trailer first came out, she had the headband on, so you seemed to have really missed the point.

We have the benefit of (captain) hindsight, but the last one looks like a completely different character. Probably influenced in design, but still a very different design.

He does say minus the headband, which even this site mentions as a reason that they look similar.

exactly.

I know that everybody loves Gerome, but I don't really like him. He's all morbid and lonely and even though he wears a cool mask, he just doesn't really appeal to me. Lon'qu is a good unit, but I think his personality is kind of boring. I like Lucina, and I think it's funny the way, in her support with Tiki, Lucina is seen as some sort of prodigy, like Marth. Chrom must be feeling pretty ticked off. :D

it seems not enough people liked Gerome, or at least his design. I like how the influence of his mother changes him, or at least that's how I always recruit him. One of themes about the children is how they all develop in the absence of their parents. As a result, they grow up to be their opposite in many ways, with one binding element. Gerome, who does not care about anyone or saving the future when you meet him, is very different than Cherche, who once was trained to heal people as a cleric.

The mask I'll give you, but the sword is still Falchion, only reforged. And I don't like that it's the point. I don't like Marth's design, so I don't like any throwbacks to it. That's the point I'VE been trying to make.

Even if you don't like the initial design, I think on some level as an FE fan it's good to show an understanding/respect for the preceding designs of the series, especially the first games. Without their success, the series wouldn't have moved on.

For me, disliking Marth's design would be akin to disliking the Black Mage design in Final Fantasy 1. It's historically relevant, regardless of the merits with the actual design.

[Interceptor]

We have the benefit of (captain) hindsight, but the last one looks like a completely different character. Probably influenced in design, but still a very different design.

Yes and no. The colors are there (blue with gold trim, red lining), the boots are turned down, the clasp is in the same spot, and you cannot possibly call the cape a coincidence.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, but Awakening's Marth still has the exact same clothing and even uses the same in-game model as Lucina. So Marth's design was retconned, but to something that looked totally dumb. If Lucina's outfit had been based more off of New Mystery of the Emblem Marth, I'd have liked it more. So long as it didn't look exactly the same, then that would still be rather boring. But no matter what clothing she wears, Lucina still looks too much like Marth to me, which I never did like.

I do respect that Marth is one of the reasons FE reached the west, but imo, we've been getting too much of him lately. It's just like how Pokemon X/Y are over-glorifying the first generation Pokemon. We're glad the first characters made the franchises successful, but they don't have to be shoved down our throats.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Anacybele

[PKL]

You have to consider that IS could be fond of Marth, though.

[Interceptor]

Yeah, but Awakening's Marth still has the exact same clothing and even uses the same in-game model as Lucina.

Marth isn't really in Awakening, it's just DLC. They might have put more effort into it if they had the time/resources to do so. Lucina is clearly a new take on the old outfit, in the same style as the rest of the cast.

So Marth's design was retconned, but to something that looked totally dumb [...] We're glad the first characters made the franchises successful, but they don't have to be shoved down our throats.

Speak for yourself, please.

[Shotguner159]

Marth's design was retconned,

Just in Awakening. SMTxFE is using his SD design.

[Airship Canon]

Just in Awakening. SMTxFE is using his SD design.

SMTxFE has more info than that trailer which just threw up random artworks?

[Shotguner159]

SMTxFE has more info than that trailer which just threw up random artworks?

It has Marth using his SD artwork. Given that they could've used any of Marth's artworks, it feels like it was a deliberate choice, to me at least. Probably should have said "it appears that", though.

[amadeuscho]

Yes and no. The colors are there (blue with gold trim, red lining), the boots are turned down, the clasp is in the same spot, and you cannot possibly call the cape a coincidence.

Yeah, there is the marth influence. The cape, though, is very much just an FE lord thing, right down to the color. Just look at Eliwood and Roy. Seliph and Sigurd also have worn the red and blue combo in artwork. Ike as a Lord in PoR also has the red and blue combination.

Sheaths are normal worn on the left side for right handed sword wielders. It's the same as most other FE sword lords.

The colors are clearly influenced by Marth. I agree with that.

Yeah, but Awakening's Marth still has the exact same clothing and even uses the same in-game model as Lucina. So Marth's design was retconned, but to something that looked totally dumb. If Lucina's outfit had been based more off of New Mystery of the Emblem Marth, I'd have liked it more. So long as it didn't look exactly the same, then that would still be rather boring. But no matter what clothing she wears, Lucina still looks too much like Marth to me, which I never did like.

That wasn't a retcon. It was a redesign. There is a reason why in SSB4 (which IS was consulted for on the design most definitely) uses the FE12 design. It was redesign so Marth's awakening model made more sense. They did that with every DLC character, redesigning them to better fit Awakening's models. Retcon is all about continuity. Hence the term retroactive continuity. In continuity, Marth still word his FE12 design. And Lyn still wore her FE7 design. Ike still wore his FE9 (and FE10) designs.

[Anacybele]

Speak for yourself, please.

...Er, elaborate? I don't recall ever shoving FE1 characters or gen 1 Pokemon down anyone's throats.