If this game had actual multiplayer...

[Skynstein]

What would be the dominant strategies?

Provided that 1) Classic mode deaths would be turned off exclusively for multiplayer (thus making Galeforce more useful), 2) Both sides could use doubles (unlike on StreetPass).

It's a missed opportunity in a game that's IMO so complex.

[Dwarfishh]

COUNTER KAMIKAZE!!! If you weren't worried about people dying, then this would probably work.

[Airship Canon]

Hi, I got First Turn Advantage.

*Pairs Up*

*Sweeps at least 90% of your team turn 1 leaving you completely unable to do anything*

There's a reason why it doesn't exist.

[Dwarfishh]

Hi, I got First Turn Advantage.

*Pairs Up*

*Sweeps at least 90% of your team turn 1 leaving you completely unable to do anything*

There's a reason why it doesn't exist.

Larger maps could stop that, so you can't reach them in one turn, giving them a chance to pair up as well.

[Magical Glace]

Maybe Pair up could be turned off and everyone would fight like in the olden days?

Yeah I was upset they dropped the feature after they had (finally) gotten it perfect in FE11/12. I wanna set my Einherjar against Magyars while I'm actually controlling them and see what she does when they aren't at the mercy of Artificial stupidity!

[Rapier]

Larger maps could stop that, so you can't reach them in one turn, giving them a chance to pair up as well.

This is hard to do, because supposedly another Dark Flier could use Rally Mov, then another unit carries an OPed unit, have Olivia dance for him/her, then move again. That's 16 squares worth of move.

Larger maps could help, though, since another Dark Flier will most likely die if she pulls a Leeroy Jenkins in the enemy's base to take a few units. The same could be said about other types of units.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Rapier

[shadowofchaos]

Hi, I got First Turn Advantage.

*Pairs Up*

*Sweeps at least 90% of your team turn 1 leaving you completely unable to do anything*

There's a reason why it doesn't exist.

No, it's DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD DUAL GUARD.

[Magical Glace]

This is hard to do, because supposedly another Dark Flier could use Rally Mov, then another unit carries an OPed unit, have Olivia dance for him/her, then move again. That's 16 squares worth of move.

Larger maps could help, though, since another Dark Flier will most likely die if she pulls a Leeroy Jenkins in the enemy's base to take a few units. The same could be said about other types of units.

You could get more. Boots and Rally Heart (which almost every rally movement character may access).

[Shadow Mir]

It's a missed opportunity in a game that's IMO so complex.

I disagree there, and strongly at that.

they had (finally) gotten it perfect in FE11/12.

That's where you're wrong. OP forges, anyone?

As I see it, multiplayer in FE is doomed to suck, so it's nothing to cry over.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Magical Glace]

...I thought FE11/12's multiplayer was fine. And forges lose OP ness if everyone uses them. Though they are expensive... Decreasing their usefulness. And you could use forges in Awakening too, they're still somewhat broken, they're just nerfed (so you can't have a 20 Mt Win Spear or something).

[Rapier]

You could get more. Boots and Rally Heart (which almost every rally movement character may access).

I guess a magical barrier in the middle of the map that stops units from crossing it until Turn 2 starts could give some time for preparations.

Then again, it'd be like playing Chess without Pawns.

[Shadow Mir]

...I thought FE11/12's multiplayer was fine. And forges lose OP ness if everyone uses them. Though they are expensive... Decreasing their usefulness. And you could use forges in Awakening too, they're still somewhat broken, they're just nerfed (so you can't have a 20 Mt Win Spear or something).

But having everyone waltz around with +10 Mt Braves... That's not OK at all. And "forges losing OP-ness if everyone uses them" sounds more like it's over-centralizing. And it doesn't help matters that Braves in SD were only available to those who had Wi-Fi in the first place.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Integrity]

And forges lose OP ness if everyone uses them.

You realize that this leads to less variety in ...everything totally? People gravitate towards the One Big Strategy. Forging the way it is means if you don't forge the love into a (EDIT: "a" lol that's like, a collective "a" so everybody gets one i guess? /EDIT) brave weapon/whatever, you're boned gg no re.

FE13 would make for some sincerely awful competitive multiplayer, really. Given as the one of the game's primary draws (imhotep) is making unholy overpowered lawnmowers and laughing when they let loose, the internal balance is just fucked. To get a foot in the door, you'd basically have to grind everybody on your team to 20/20/20/20/20/... to get max everythings, have DLC, and follow The Strategy or The Counter To The Strategy. I can't imagine there would be any variety on a competitive level, and I can't imagine it would be any fun regardless. I don't even see a way to segregate it nicely.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Integrity

[Shadow Mir]

You realize that this leads to less variety in ...everything totally? People gravitate towards the One Big Strategy. Forging the way it is means if you don't forge the love into a (EDIT: "a" lol that's like, a collective "a" so everybody gets one i guess? /EDIT) brave weapon/whatever, you're boned gg no re.

FE13 would make for some sincerely awful competitive multiplayer, really. Given as the one of the game's primary draws (imhotep) is making unholy overpowered lawnmowers and laughing when they let loose, the internal balance is just fucked. To get a foot in the door, you'd basically have to grind everybody on your team to 20/20/20/20/20/... to get max everythings, have DLC, and follow The Strategy or The Counter To The Strategy. I can't imagine there would be any variety on a competitive level, and I can't imagine it would be any fun regardless. I don't even see a way to segregate it nicely.

Exactly. And this is why I think Shadow Dragon's multiplayer sucked - if you didn't arena abuse to get the money to forge braves with +10 Mt (never mind the fact that braves needed Wi-fi to even access), you were royally screwed.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Never mind the fact that Shadow Dragon lacked Second Seals with which to reset your level, making stat capping a huge pain.

A barrier wouldn't work because then the teams would be right next to eachother when it fell, giving whoever got the first turn an even bigger advantage.

How about this: No pair up, all characters on both sides get automatic Dragonskin, each side can only move one unit per turn (they can still use Galeforce to move again), all unit movement ranges are cut in half, and each team can only use one of each kind of weapon. Moving first isn't a huge advantage anymore because you can accomplish less per phase, having higher move isn't as broken, and it's fairly hard to ORKO people (remember, Counter and Lethality don't work). Fortify/Physic would still be annoying, which is why only one of each type of weapon per team. That also helps limit Brave spam and gives other weapons (namely, Killers and Legendary weapons) a chance. If you wanted to be really extreme, limit it to one of each kind of skill per team (and possibly ban LB). That would prevent Breaker/Luna spam nicely.

[shadowofchaos]

Never mind the fact that Shadow Dragon lacked Second Seals with which to reset your level, making stat capping a huge pain.

A barrier wouldn't work because then the teams would be right next to eachother when it fell, giving whoever got the first turn an even bigger advantage.

How about this: No pair up, all characters on both sides get automatic Dragonskin, each side can only move one unit per turn (they can still use Galeforce to move again), all unit movement ranges are cut in half, and each team can only use one of each kind of weapon. Moving first isn't a huge advantage anymore because you can accomplish less per phase, having higher move isn't as broken, and it's fairly hard to ORKO people (remember, Counter and Lethality don't work). Fortify/Physic would still be annoying, which is why only one of each type of weapon per team. That also helps limit Brave spam and gives other weapons (namely, Killers and Legendary weapons) a chance. If you wanted to be really extreme, limit it to one of each kind of skill per team (and possibly ban LB). That would prevent Breaker/Luna spam nicely.

Yes. Nerf the entire dual system. And make half the skills in your entire arsenal completely useless. Camping matches.

Totally fun. I'm jumping for joy at this entire concept.

Edited December 7, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Czar_Yoshi]

Or you could just hand an automatic win to whoever moves first. That sounds fun too.

[shadowofchaos]

Or you could just give up coming up with a solution for this? Awakening wasn't designed with multiplayer in mind. Fire Emblem as a whole isn't either. Streetpass was the best solution, I'd say.

[Shadow Mir]

Never mind the fact that Shadow Dragon lacked Second Seals with which to reset your level, making stat capping a huge pain.

A barrier wouldn't work because then the teams would be right next to eachother when it fell, giving whoever got the first turn an even bigger advantage.

How about this: No pair up, all characters on both sides get automatic Dragonskin, each side can only move one unit per turn (they can still use Galeforce to move again), all unit movement ranges are cut in half, and each team can only use one of each kind of weapon. Moving first isn't a huge advantage anymore because you can accomplish less per phase, having higher move isn't as broken, and it's fairly hard to ORKO people (remember, Counter and Lethality don't work). Fortify/Physic would still be annoying, which is why only one of each type of weapon per team. That also helps limit Brave spam and gives other weapons (namely, Killers and Legendary weapons) a chance. If you wanted to be really extreme, limit it to one of each kind of skill per team (and possibly ban LB). That would prevent Breaker/Luna spam nicely.

I'd say even without capped stats, braves would still be dominant as all git-out thanks to Shadow Dragon's broken forging system. And a forged Thoron on a Sage with high Mag would cripple anyone unlucky enough to be targeted thanks to resistance being virtually non-existent.

[Integrity]

How about this: No pair up, all characters on both sides get automatic Dragonskin, each side can only move one unit per turn (they can still use Galeforce to move again), all unit movement ranges are cut in half, and each team can only use one of each kind of weapon. Moving first isn't a huge advantage anymore because you can accomplish less per phase, having higher move isn't as broken, and it's fairly hard to ORKO people (remember, Counter and Lethality don't work). Fortify/Physic would still be annoying, which is why only one of each type of weapon per team. That also helps limit Brave spam and gives other weapons (namely, Killers and Legendary weapons) a chance. If you wanted to be really extreme, limit it to one of each kind of skill per team (and possibly ban LB). That would prevent Breaker/Luna spam nicely.

Look, I hate to agree with Rey but at the point you do this how is it FE13 anymore?

[Airship Canon]

Dual Guard isn't common enough, and wouldn't stop an opening turn sweep. And even it's not a total sweep, the second player is going to be losing key/critical units immediately. At that point it's far too one sided to matter.

No one would waltz into PvP without pouring as much killing potential into their units as possible- and do I really need to point out what can be done with "jack****" for power?

The likes of anything in Apotheosis >> anything a player can put together. If what is in Apoth can get crushed without so much as Rallies [let alone Limit Breaker], what do you think is going to happen, since no one in the right mind is going to handicap themselves like that in PvP?

FTA = Game Won. It's a coinflip Meta, and that's it. There's no skill- whoever gets FTA wins. Simple.

Or you could just give up coming up with a solution for this? Awakening wasn't designed with multiplayer in mind. Fire Emblem as a whole isn't either. Streetpass was the best solution, I'd say.

FETO is the prefect example of how this is absolutely true.

Fans -tried- to make a PvP focused FE. It is/was a horrible mess that is/was nigh-unplayable. (I have no Clue if FETO still exists, and couldn't be assed to check.)

[Integrity]

Dual Guard isn't common enough, and wouldn't stop an opening turn sweep.

Alternate scenario: Dual Guard did, in fact, proc enough to save the team from the opening turn sweep.

...leaving that team in shape to do the same thing to the other player, who just watched all his plans blow up in his face for no real reason. gg, no re

[Dwarfishh]

If pairup was taken out, as well as forging and certain skills (Galeforce) it could almost work...

[Shadow Mir]

If pairup was taken out, as well as forging and certain skills (Galeforce) it could almost work...

I doubt that, given how "almost" doesn't count, except in horseshoes.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Alternate scenario: Dual Guard did, in fact, proc enough to save the team from the opening turn sweep.

...leaving that team in shape to do the same thing to the other player, who just watched all his plans blow up in his face for no real reason. gg, no re

Is it even possible for Dual Guards to block Dual Strikes? DS bypasses Counter and PavGis(+)... I suppose we'll never know.