BatmanWannabe Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) Hey guys, sorry if this has been asked before somewhere. It's been a while since I've played FE7 HHM but I always go with Harken. However, I'm wondering out of curiosity if Karel is viable at all, assuming Harken just wasn't in the game and Karel was the only one you could recruit. For those of you who are good at HHM, what do you think? His base ATK is decent but even with Lancereavers he has a hard time doing significant damage to Wyvern Knights/Lords and stuff you fight around that point in the game. He doesn't even get HHM bonuses, which is really unfortunate. Anyway I'm thinking about maybe trying him out but I just wanted to hear some of your guys' opinions first. Edited December 23, 2013 by BatmanWannabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 what do you mean by "viable" every unit is "viable;" karel is just not nearly as good as harken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmanWannabe Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) I guess what I meant was if Karel had any advantages over Harken that made him worth taking up a character slot (besides maybe the Wo Dao). If he has any redeeming characteristics, I suppose, to warrant deployment. Oh, also, how does Karel compare in terms of stats to a Guy at that point in the game? Sorry I know what I'm asking is sort of ambiguous. I just sort of wanted to know what his deal is in terms of usefulness cause I kind of wanted to try him out to shake things up a bit. Edited December 23, 2013 by BatmanWannabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Practical advantages over Harken? Not really. He's faster but HHM enemies are slow as balls. Swordlock hurts, and handaxes are really good. I've never used Guy beyond the early chapters (he never impressed me statwise, personality-wise, or appearance-wise) and I've not played FE7 in about a year or more so I don't know what would be a reasonable level for Guy at 27 assuming we're not going low turns or anything, but I'll hazard a guess at 20/5 (someone with better numbers please replace this), which puts Guy around the same strength roughly, ~ 4 more speed or so and 10+ more hp, for ~2 less defense and a lot less res but >res. But like I said, I don't remember what's an actual good level estimate for Guy here. For all we know he could be newly promoted or something, or not even. But I mean, if you want to shake things up a bit, Karel isn't unusable by all means. He's not great or even good but every unit in FE7 is usable on HHM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Viable, certainly. You can slap him in a line-up and he'll pull his weight at least. Optimal, far from it. I can't honestly compare him to Guy, because I've always had bad luck with my Guy's growing strength and bench him before Dragon's Gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) Karel has 1 more Res, and IIRC also double everything that is not boss or Nomad at base(harken miss the rare. 15 speed, and doubled by 23 speed Valks IIRC) Harken is Bulkier, have better item, not to mention he study manliness from Marcus It depends on how much Guy is trained. At say... 15/1, Guy only big loss are Resistance Edited December 23, 2013 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM ME MARIANNE ART Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Karel isn't very good in this game (Or FE6). Harken is just so much better, and if you bothered to train Guy, he is too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 He's decent if you use him. Harken is better though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Agreed with all of the above. Even from a purely equipment point of view, Brave Sword > Wo Dao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) Ok, as far as viability goes, Karel is, at the very least, usable if you really want to use him. However, this doesn't excuse the fact that compared to Harken, he's nothing. While Karel is faster than Harken, he only has a 2 point lead in speed over his counterpart, and FE7 enemies aren't particularly fast outside of heroes, swordmasters, valkyries, and nomad troopas, which Karel can't double anyway. This isn't taking into account Harken's insurmountable 7 point lead in strength as well as his ability to use axes, so he ends up doing more damage anyway. In fact, in order to match Harken's base attack with a hand axe, Karel would need the Ch23x silver blade. Also, Karel's 2 range options are limited to up to two 25 use light brands (one of which may not even be obtained due to Kenneth's map being > Germ's) and a 15 use runesword (this one is gotten in Ch32x, far too late to be of any real use), whereas Harken can use hand axes, which are easily bought in shoppes for like 300G. Really, the only thing Karel has on Harken from an offensive standpoint is a +15 critical bonus, which gives him 56 crit with a killing edge (61 w/ wo dao) and 26 with any other weapon. As far as durability is concerned, Harken wins here again. All Karel has over his counterpart is a measly one point in resistance. Harken? He has 11 more HP and 3 more defense then Karel. To give an idea on how significant this superiority in concrete physical durability is, 26 atk dracoknights in NoF 3HKO Karel after WTA (in fact, they are like 3 attack away from 2HKOing Karel.) Those same clowns 5HKO Harken after WTD. Even the 35 attack silver lance dracolord on the same map only 3HKO's Harken while Karel is dropped to single digit HP in one shot. And while Karel has 55 avoid to Harken's 48, most enemies in this game use lances, so Harken ends up dodging more attacks anyway. Even if you look at attributes other than stats, Harken's brave sword can be equipped by any swordsman with a B rank or better in swords (and gives a useful 2x attack) whereas Karel's wo dao can only be equipped by him, Guy, Lyn, and Karla (and is basically a glorified killing edge), so Harken wins in starting equipment. And as for supports (not that they matter much in an efficient run, but still throwing them out), not only are most of Harken's supports faster than most of Karel's, the units he supports are more useful in an efficient run than the units that support Karel. That is all I really need to say on this topic. Edited December 23, 2013 by General James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmanWannabe Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 Wow. Thanks for the concise information. I have no idea why IS didn't make Karel a red unit and give him HHM bonuses, but I suppose even with them he wouldn't be able to outdo all the advantages Harken's got over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I once wanted to make a multi-player team that focused on getting critical hits all the team. Karel was needed. I just so happened to be playing on hector hard mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I find it interesting that people consider Harken better than Karel and yet don't like Jerme's chapter, given that Harken is easier to recruit in Jerme's chapter than in Kenneth's. Or maybe I just find it easier to keep a few doors closed for a few turns than to leave a few strong enemies undefeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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