Opinions on the Fairy type

[Jedi]

We've been playing X/Y for awhile now. What is everyone's opinion on the fairy type? From a competitive, casual or even ascetic view point. I'm curious

I quite like the addition, more types is cool but it does throw some more wrenches into the balance of the metagame, I like the designs of a good chunk of em too. Despite being cutesy I do like the type, plus one of its attacks is the POWER OF THE MOOOOOON.

[Anacybele]

I really like it! For one thing, I finally have counters to Dragon types that I'm willing to use. And I like a lot of their designs, like Xerneas, Sylveon, and Swirlix/Slurpuff. :3 It also gave the Poison types another strength.

The only thing that confuses me is why Mr. Mime was given this type. o_O

Edited February 17, 2014 by Anacybele

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

They failed in nerfing the Dragons on singles but I like their pressence in the metagame and they are really cute

On doubles, yeah.... need to see how much Hydreigon would fall. It was IMO the best SP.A Dragon last gen

Yeah this might be too biased to the metagame but eh

Edited February 17, 2014 by JSND

[Shadow Mir]

I like it. It just might be one of my favorite types... actually, make that "is". It helps that I like quite a few of the Fairies too. And... Any tree can drop an apple, but Fairies drop the freaking moon!

....Actually, they don't, but I just wanted an excuse to say that. And I love Moonblast.

[Jedi]

I really like it! For one thing, I finally have counters to Dragon types that I'm willing to use. And I like a lot of their designs, like Xerneas, Sylveon, and Swirlix/Slurpuff. :3 It also gave the Poison types another strength.

The only thing that confuses me is why Mr. Mime was given this type. o_O

Because Mr.Mime is.. I have no idea myself haha.

They failed in nerfing the Dragons on singles but I like their pressence in the metagame and they are really cute

On doubles, yeah.... need to see how much Hydreigon would fall. It was IMO the best SP.A Dragon last gen

Yeah this might be too biased to the metagame but eh

This is why I asked for any sort of opinion! Don't worry on being biased towards any particular subject. Pokémon has so many fans that play the games for many different reasons. Every opinion is of value ^^

[Shahrivar]

It's okay, but way too strong in terms of weakness/strengths - bad base stats hold it back (total opposite of Dragon - that type isn't that great but all of them have great basestats and movepool).

While Dark resistance was justified after the Steel change, another bug nerf wasn't asked for.

Why did they make Moonblast so strong compared to similar moves? Flamethrower, Ice Beam etc all got nerfed (except Energy Ball) and have less chance on their secondary effect.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Assurhaddon

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

While the SP.A Drop is weird, Moonblast is only stronger in theory

In practice, you will struggle to find a situation where Moonblast is noticably stronger than FT/Ice Beam

Like.... Moonblast would deal 53% in a case where you are doing 50% with FT, or 84 instead of 80 and so on

Also Dragon have insane Neutral coverage and a power move which make it over the top.

Edited February 17, 2014 by JSND

[Shadow Mir]

Why did they make Moonblast so strong compared to similar moves? Flamethrower, Ice Beam etc all got nerfed (except Energy Ball) and have less chance on their secondary effect.

Moonblast isn't THAT much stronger then they are (95 BP vs their 90).

Edited February 17, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[Shahrivar]

I know, but Flamethrower and Ice Beam got nerfed from 95 to 90. I don't get it, did they want to promote Fairy types? 90 seems to be the way to go for 100% hit special moves.

Edit: It IS better. Of course not by far, I just think that it's weird.

Which power move do you mean? There are several moves equivalent to Draco Meteor/Outrage (while there is none equivalent to Close Combat).

I don't disagree on neutral coverage and their movepools as a whole, dragons are great - still, this isn't because of the type being strong, but because of their diversity and base stats.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Assurhaddon

[Nobody]

I like the fairy type, but with some small exceptions, it didn't change many things. Yeah, Azumarril and togekiss are OU now, but other than that, it didn't have as much of an impact as everyone expected.

[ZemZem]

It's alright. I prefer the old mons that got the Fairy type added on to their typing over the new Fairy mons, though.

Though I swear I will make Dedenne a deity one of these days.

[LuxSpes]

I really like it. Two of my favorite pokemon, Gardevoir and Togekiss got a new typing that really help them competitively and the new ones are alright(Klefki has really grown on me despite me finding it silly initially). And while the type didn't really make dragons less of a threat, I really like to be able to switch a pokemon into an outrage or draco meteor and take no damage. Overall, Fairy is now my top 3 favorite type.

Any tree can drop an apple, but Fairies drop the freaking moon!

TWEWY reference!

another bug nerf wasn't asked for.

I wonder if the resistance to bug wasn't just a response to the prevalence of U-turn. But overall, I agree that bug need some love.

[Titamon]

They're cute as a button.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Which power move do you mean? There are several moves equivalent to Draco Meteor/Outrage (while there is none equivalent to Close Combat).

I don't disagree on neutral coverage and their movepools as a whole, dragons are great - still, this isn't because of the type being strong, but because of their diversity and base stats.

There are several meta factor why none of them suceed as much

Leaf Storm has shit neutral coverage, same as Wood Hammer and Petal Dance. Nothing to see here

Flying, Brave Bird lacks a good user until now, and while there are arguably one REALLY good user of the move in Staraptor, Staraptor is a weird pokemon who happen to have all of its finest check running around in OU. Most of the user also lack good coverage.

Fire have 3 resistor, all of which happen to be prominent in the meta and thanks to the meta, might as well operate with one immunity. Namely, Heatran, Tyranitar, Dragons, and Bulky Waters exist. This might be why Overheat Spam and Blitz Spam is not as OP.

Fighting, Lucario is way too slow, and have many issues while Terrakion is easy to check. Resisted by flying is not a good position when this "flying" happen to be Gliscor, a pokemon that is so influental, it manage to drop Heracross from OU last gen after half a gen dominating the meta. They are stupid in lower tier thanks to how OP the type is, so it can be called as "low tier dragons" although most of them lacks answer for Psychic types(now they have Knock Off. G to the G). There is one more overused fighting type that is on an entirely different category.

Which is Water. There are no Water type the combo of insane offense, good overall bulk with no crippling weakness. Starmie and Keldeo comes close, and Hydro Pump is a bit weaker than DM. Although its worth noting that Gen 5 Metagame is dominated by Water types thanks to post nerf rain being ridiculously broken. If Dragons really is the dominating type that people are making it out to be, then Water would be the god type since it dominates the meta even harder.

And then we have Dragons who resists Fire, Water, fighting(just ask Lance), and Grass that would otherwise dominate the meta(see: Gen 4 post Mence Ban), is weak to Ice and themselves, has one type resistance, and have Outrage and DM on every Dragon, and they have shit like Latios and Garchomp. Most of the complaints about Dragon could probably be directed at Choice Specs Draco Meteor and not much will change

Neutral Coverage with insane power is a recipe to sucess in Pokemon and it have good set of resistances and near lack of weakness. While Dragon type itself IS filled by good pokemon, the type itself can't be called ballanced when it shifted the meta in its favor.

And i'm pretty sure its every type that currently have wide spread power move. Ghost has no power move, and in this gen, only Gengar and Aegislash can be called "good".

P.S. Even then Specs Toed still 2HKO Latios.

Okay, I really need to sleep. This post is bad >+>

Edited February 17, 2014 by JSND

[Shahrivar]

Fire has great strengths aswell - unlike Dragons which only do super effective damage vs themselves. There is one Fire immune relevant Pokemon in OU (Heatran is the only Flash Fire Pokemon in OU atm, isn't it?) and it does at least neutral damage, often super effective, to the most popular defensive type - Steel.

Fire is a great offensive type. Of course not without flaws, but one of my favorites. They just lack options to handle their counters like Water types (Solar Beam without Sun... no) while dragons have Steel, Poison or Fire moves.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Dragon is shit. But there are - imo - better types (Water, Fairy, Ghost) to have. Stuff like lack of a good Brave Bird user or bad special moves outside of rain hold other types back aswell, Water isn't the best offensive type and so on.

[Shadow Mir]

Fire has great strengths aswell - unlike Dragons which only do super effective damage vs themselves. There is one Fire immune relevant Pokemon in OU (Heatran is the only Flash Fire Pokemon in OU atm, isn't it?) and it does at least neutral damage, often super effective, to the most popular defensive type - Steel.

Fire is a great offensive type. Of course not without flaws, but one of my favorites. They just lack options to handle their counters like Water types (Solar Beam without Sun... no) while dragons have Steel, Poison or Fire moves.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Dragon is shit. But there are - imo - better types (Water, Fairy, Ghost) to have. Stuff like lack of a good Brave Bird user or bad special moves outside of rain hold other types back aswell, Water isn't the best offensive type and so on.

And yet, even after the ban of DrizzleSwim (which made people take notice of how good rain was in the first place), rain was still a common team in Gen V.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I think the problem with super effective coverage is the fact that sometimes its uneeded thanks to high BP being ridiculous.

For example, Specs Draco meteor from Latios in Gen 5 quoted from Smogon:

• Draco Meteor vs. 248/0 Scizor: 59.47 - 69.97%, guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• Draco Meteor vs. 0/0 HP Heatran: 50.15 - 59.44%
• Draco Meteor vs. 180/0 HP Tyranitar in sand: 59.32 - 69.94%, guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

On other targets aside maybe Jirachi and Ferrothorn with SP.D investment, that pretty much resulted in a free kill or crippling blows. When you are that kind of overpowered in the first place, having no pokemon that resists your attacks are much more useful than getting extra overkill damage

Also aside from Heatran, Tyranitar and Politoed deserve a special mention for pokemon who fucked up Fire type. The former happen to be used everywhere as well

Edited February 17, 2014 by JSND

[Nobody]

Even nowadays, I wouldn't call ghost a better offensive type than Dragon.

Dragon is weak against steel, does nothing against fairy and is super effective against itself.

Ghost is weak against dark, SE against itself and psychic and does nothing against normal.

Still, the strongest ghost attack is Shadow ball, with a BP of 80. Dragon has Outrage and DM, extremely powerful moves (and it also has dragon claw, which has the same BP of SB).

And lets be honest, dealing SE damage to dragon alone is better than doing SE damage to ghost and psychic types, considering there are many dragons in OU, while gengar and aegislash are the only prevalent ghosts and psychic types are even rarer.

[Shahrivar]

I'd argue that they're quite close - Dragon has stronger moves, but the Dark/Normal resistance/immunity doesn't matter as much as Steel resistance (Steel being more common).

Not sure if you should count SE damage to dragons - of course, it's great. But isn't that circular logic?

IMO JSND's numbers show how dragons have great basestats - there are few fire types who'd hit that hard with Overheat.

[Nobody]

I'd argue that they're quite close - Dragon has stronger moves, but the Dark/Normal resistance/immunity doesn't matter as much as Steel resistance (Steel being more common).

Not sure if you should count SE damage to dragons - of course, it's great. But isn't that circular logic?

IMO JSND's numbers show how dragons have great basestats - there are few fire types who'd hit that hard with Overheat.

You have a point about steel being undoubtedly more popular than dark, but there are also many popular dark type pokemon, like mandibuzz, bisharp or TTar.

About, dealing SE damage to dragons being circular logic, well, while this might be true, one of the reasons I like my scarfchomp as much as I do, is because it can revenge kill every dragon but dragonite with full HP, so I'd say dealing SE damage to itself is a positive.

And yes, I agree with you that the dragon type wouldn't be seen so highly if the dragon pokemon didn't have their amazing stats.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Nobody

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

IMO JSND's numbers show how dragons have great basestats - there are few fire types who'd hit that hard with Overheat.

Drought Tales, Volcarona, Heatran, Darmanitar(who crushes Latios btw), Victini, Moltres, Chandelure, and Blaziken can all do simmilar numbers

The external factor is what make it much worse. Such as weak to Stealth Rock. Or Common resistor. Or "Tyranitar and Politoed switches in and drop it down to a quarter of the numbers."

Edited February 17, 2014 by JSND

[bonesaw]

i don't dislike them but they didn't do a whole lot to balance the type chart as they were supposed to. they did nerf dragons and offensively boost steel, but their resistance to bug just gives bug which is already mediocre even more issues and it didn't really strengthen poison significantly at all.

a lot of the designs for them are bad too- the only fairy type i like to any significant degree is mawile. but mawile is fucking awesome, so there's that.

[Icon of Sin]

Don't like it, mostly because it's good against three of my favorite types and there's nothing with that type that I really enjoy using.

Besides if they really wanted to balance the types, perhaps they shouldn't have buffed Dragons so much in Generation 4 with the addition of Draco Meteor, increasing Outrage's power and inventing Garchomp and all the legendary Dragons from the last two generations. Generation 5 also saw a huge increase among good Fighting, Dark and Bug types but then they go "NOPE" and add this type. If they really wanted to buff Poison and Steel types offensively, they could've done it another way.

I'm also disappointed they didn't make the type compatible with Hidden Power considering a few types of Pokémon would really like it such as Dark.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Woodshooter

[Lord Glenn]

Not a fan of Fairy, simply because it just shows how little Game Freak understands the series and its many flaws.

They complain that Dragons were too strong and too widely used and added Fairy to counter this, but they were the ones that gave Dragons (and by this I generally mean the ever-growing trend of "let's throw yet another pseudo-legendary Dragon-type in the new region" - Kingdra, Altaria, Flygon, Dragalge, etc. generally aren't the ones causing problems) the upper echelon base stats and extremely diverse move pools to begin with - coupled with the sheer number of them that they've added over the years (which basically defeated the original reason that the early Dragons were strong and impressive - they were "rare" and "mystical"), what did they think was going to happen?!

And, as I said when the type was first announced, Fairy was just going to be a "band-aid" to the bigger problem. Having an immunity to Dragon is great... if Dragons only ran Dragon-type moves. Sure, you can use it on a predicted switch-in, but that's only if you predict correctly. Adding another type that was super-effective against Dragons was a positive change, however. But, the problem still remains that Dragons have the base stats and move sets to mostly invalidate Fairy being a problem to them.

As I continue to maintain, the only way for Game Freak to actually balance the series is to go through the base stats and fix them across the board*, completely fix the type chart** (Ghost being immune to Fighting no longer makes sense with the Physical and Special split, for instance), and possibly even expand everyone else's move pools to be even more diverse to match the extent that most of the Dragons have it. (To be honest, I'd just like to see more moves available across the board - not necessarily giving everyone super amounts of coverage, but just give them more available moves that match them; for instance, Altaria's a flying cloud, and clouds are made of moisture... yet, Altaria only has access to one Water move and one Ice move, both by TM. Why doesn't it learn something, like, say, Icy Wind via Level Up?)

* They've already made this a viable solution by increasing base stat of certain Pokemon in X/Y. Obviously, no one seriously blew up that old Pokemon were being changed, so Game Freak needs to learn that just because players have certain things ingrained in their minds about certain Pokemon doesn't mean that they can't adapt and learn the changes. The stats are the problem, so they need fixed.

** Same as the above - Gen II and Gen VI both featured changes to existing types and their relationships to other existing types, not just new types that were added. I don't see why Game Freak is so apprehensive to make modifications that need to be made when people have already shown that they can relearn type chart changes from existing types.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Lord Glenn

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Kingdra is one of the most used Dragon in VGC, so its technically causing problem