How to improve Fire Emblem Awakening

[Refa]

for the above post, ill use an example. I run a lemonade business. People will buy my lemonade with 3 scoops of sugar just as much as they would with 4 scoops of sugar. However, I now have to buy 25% more sugar, causing my overall profit to become lower. That money could have been used for better improvements to the lemonade, or at the very least saved for personal gain, which is what I'm selling lemonade for. Lunatic+ plus is essentially the extra sugar in my view.

If IS was making video games purely for profit, they would've a) made more profitable types of games or b) work for a company that makes more profitable types of games.

[Moira]

Then your argument can easily be used against you. I for one LOVE the increased difficulty, and am actually considerably less inclined to buy a game when I don't feel like it's going to give me a challenge. In fact, it's the very reason why I bought Shadow Dragon rather than just playing FE3 on my emulator!

So, there's that. There's my reasonable grounds for why I believe you're wrong

While I worry that your statement lacks a certain scientific rigor (almost quote anyone?), it is ok to come to that conclusion, though I'm sure you reached this by taking other's opinions into account. People can look at the data and come to different conclusions, and so far you are the only one to actually respond with an opinion other than telling me I'm wrong.

As for Refa, I do agree that it succeeds in other areas, but money-making is a goal too.

Edited March 4, 2014 by n00srac

[FionordeQuester]

While I worry that your statement lacks a certain scientific rigor (almost quote anyone?), it is ok to come to that conclusion, though I'm sure you reached this by taking other's opinions into account. People can look at the data and come to different conclusions, and so far you are the only one to actually respond with an opinion other than telling me I'm wrong.

What's your scientific rigor then? Do you have a job involving getting the opinions of tons of people?

[Sunwoo]

Like every business that sells a product, I'm looking at consumer opinions and trying to see what works and what doesn't. This is how every company tries to improve their product. Assumptions must be made, otherwise choices would be completely random. You must look at what seems to work and what doesn't seem to work. No company ever knows all the opinions, and to say having opinions based on the ones you have is faulty doesn't make sense. Should Nintendo discontinue the Zelda series because not every person who bought it or would buy it has shared their opinion, and therefore they can't decide what a good choice would be? I have shared what my grounds are, other peoples personal enjoyment and opinions on such features. I don't have all the information Nintendo probably has, but I'd have to get a job their to be privy to such valuable information (and it really is valuable).

Again, if you don't have all the information, then what gives you the grounds to say that lunatic+ was a business failure? Where are you getting your information? How do you know that this is the opinion of a significant fraction of Awakening players anyway? What gives you the right to speak of other people's personal enjoyment in general in the first place?

You're not IS. You're not Nintendo, you don't work for them. You're free to have your opinion, but I do not believe you can use your assumptions to say whether lunatic+ was a business failure or whether anything in the game made it a business failure.

[Moira]

What's your scientific rigor then? Do you have a job involving getting the opinions of tons of people?

It was more about quoting Miriel, but I'm just talking about looking at a broader picture in general. My opinion is not coming from a grand expert with a hoarde of information, but I doubt most, if any, of our opinions are.

[Refa]

As for Refa, I do agree that it succeeds in other areas, but money-making is a goal too.

It's not the only goal, and I highly doubt the "potential losses" from making Lunatic + Mode were significant enough to you know, actually be a loss. Otherwise IS wouldn't have made it.

[Moira]

Again, if you don't have all the information, then what gives you the grounds to say that lunatic+ was a business failure? Where are you getting your information? How do you know that this is the opinion of a significant fraction of Awakening players anyway? What gives you the right to speak of other people's personal enjoyment in general in the first place?

You're not IS. You're not Nintendo, you don't work for them. You're free to have your opinion, but I do not believe you can use your assumptions to say whether lunatic+ was a business failure or whether anything in the game made it a business failure.

I'm not saying it was 100% a business failure no questions about it. I'm saying I think it was one, based on the opinions of people who have played Awakening. And I have looked around a lot, especially on the matter of lunatic+. The people gave me the right to talk about their enjoyment when they stated their enjoyment. You keep telling me I'm free to have my opinion, but then tell me not to have one because I don't have info like Nintendo or IS.Where else are you going to get your opinions other than what people say?

For Refa, because I don't know how to have two quotes, I really am only talking about the money goal, which is where it failed. I'm not saying it's a failure overall. I still think it was a good addition. (and could've been better, like most things in Awakening).

Edited March 4, 2014 by n00srac

[FionordeQuester]

Makes the argument kind of pointless then. Yet...we're still doing it.

So, I imagine having Lunatic+ is much of the same kind of thing, because unlike your Lemonade stand example, taking a bit of time to adjust some values and creating a system for assigning enemy skills probably is that hard, and is only a one time thing rather than a long term investment. There was no need for it, but the designers knew there would be hardcore people who wanted a greater challenge, probably had a few people like that themselves on their team, so thought "why not"?

And I don't think you were being slammed for having an opinion. You were slammed for stating it in a way that didn't sound enough like an opinion, which you probably did unknowingly. You'd be surprised at how something that sounds reasonable when said aloud to yourself sounds unreasonable when the other person doesn't have your facial expressions or tone of voice to go off of.

Edited March 4, 2014 by FionordeQuester

[HK Motendra]

Okay, I get that how he backs up his opinion is considered flawed, but I don't think it fair to just victimize him like this.

[Moira]

Writing is a two edged sword. The opinion part probably got lost in the lengthy walls of text I wrote, which I apologize for. I also think people think that I'm saying it was bad overall.(if you're not I'm sorry I just keep trying to defend my original statement that it didn't make them money, and failed money-wise. I am happy it is in the game and I think it is a good addition overall.

Edited March 4, 2014 by n00srac

[Sunwoo]

I'm not saying it was 100% a business failure no questions about it. I'm saying I think it was one, based on the opinions of people who have played Awakening. And I have looked around a lot, especially on the matter of lunatic+. The people gave me the right to tlak about their enjoyment when they stated their enjoyment. You keep telling me I'm free to have my opinion, but then tell me not to have one because I don't have info like Nintendo or IS.

This is what you said earlier:

Therefore, lunatic+ did not play much of a role in the sales of this game, which is why I think it wasn't a success from a business standpoint.

Sounds a little bit too certain when you don't have all the facts, don't you think?

While you're free to believe that lunatic+ was not a good mode, the statement like the one I quoted above? Why do you have the grounds to say this kind of stuff? How do you know that the people who you are talking to comprise a majority of Awakening players anyway? Are you asking all sorts of people from Awakening? I could ask my friends who have played Awakening this question, but they are all new FE players and my results would be skewed. Are you asking everyone of all FE experiences? Even if you've looked around a lot, how do you know this comprises anywhere near the majority of Awakening players?

Honestly, I'm done arguing with you because I don't think you get the issue that I'm having with you and I'm done wasting my words.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Sangyul

[FionordeQuester]

Writing is a two edged sword. The opinion part probably got lost in the lengthy walls of text I wrote, which I apologize for. I also think people think that I'm saying it was bad overall.(if you're not I'm sorry I just keep trying to defend my original statement that it didn't make them money, and failed money-wise. I am happy it is in the game and I think it is a good addition overall.

Hmm...well, that's interesting to hear, but your OP gave off quite a different impression. That's probably what caused a lot of the confusion. Anyways, I'm sorry you felt so picked on. I know what that's like yo.

[Moira]

This is what you said earlier:

Sounds a little bit too certain when you don't have all the facts, don't you think?

While you're free to believe that lunatic+ was not a good mode, the statement like the one I quoted above? Why do you have the grounds to say this kind of stuff? How do you know that the people who you are talking to comprise a majority of Awakening players anyway? Are you asking all sorts of people from Awakening? I could ask my friends who have played Awakening this question, but they are all new FE players and my results would be skewed. Are you asking everyone of all FE experiences? Even if you've looked around a lot, how do you know this comprises anywhere near the majority of Awakening players?

Honestly, I'm done arguing with you because I don't think you get the issue that I'm having with you and I'm done wasting my words.

The post was meant as my personally reasoning behind my conclusion, and it was more of a hypothesis than anything. If all these assumptions are true (and I think(important word!) they are), then the logical conclusion is this. It was not meant as a fact. An example would be that I think Johnny just ate a peanut. I remember Johnny telling me that he's allergic to peanuts. Therefore,(its safe to assume if all pre existing things are true) Johnny will have an allergic reaction. I get that you think my opinion doesn't have enough information to be valid. Perfectly fair. But I can still have my opinion, just as you can have yours on it. And I don't want this to be thought of as an argument. It sounds more like misunderstandings to me.

It really is a world of educated guesses when it comes to finding out what was successful and in what ways, some more than others (Nintendo>me).

And yes, I do use bad examples and the edit ability too much(not for deleting, but adding).

Edited March 4, 2014 by n00srac

[Angelic Phoenix]

How about to end this "argument" we put the main reason why we were interested in buying this game. I personally don't care (and didn't know at the time of buying it) about Lunatic+. Since I'm a fan of the series, I just wanted to play a new Fire Emblem. Difficulty, story, box art, and new features didn't influence me to buy the game, just me craving something new I haven't played yet. Even when I talked with some of my friends about their opinions on the game, the only things they were concerned about were the controls or new functions. Again, that's just what my group of friends thought, so I"m not speaking for any of you guys. Also, I'm sure there is a survey somewhere that gives the main reason why people bought the game. I wish they would have done something else besides Lunatic+ even if it is optional to the player.

Edited March 4, 2014 by VoltStrike

[FionordeQuester]

I bought it because I love Fire Emblem, and wanted more of it. Although I DID buy Shadow Dragon specifically because of the H5 Difficulty!

[Czar_Yoshi]

This topic: Kaboom.

I bought it because I was mad at IS for Sticker Star and wanted to give them a chance to redeem themselves after I heard Awakening had mustache humor. True story.

[Roivann]

I bought it because I love Fire Emblem. That's it.

[Silver Lightning]

I'm a Fire Emblem fan, and I'll buy any game that comes out whether I think I'll enjoy it or not. Though I'm rather optimistic about them going in too, so maybe I'm just poised to like them in general; I don't specifically remember anything about Awakening that I bought it for, other than the sheer excitement of a new story and characters and a fresh new game becoming available after the relative disappointment of FE11 and Japan playing keep-a-way with FE12.

[shadowofchaos]

How about to end this "argument" we put the main reason why we were interested in buying this game. I personally don't care (and didn't know at the time of buying it) about Lunatic+. Since I'm a fan of the series, I just wanted to play a new Fire Emblem. Difficulty, story, box art, and new features didn't influence me to buy the game, just me craving something new I haven't played yet. Even when I talked with some of my friends about their opinions on the game, the only things they were concerned about were the controls or new functions. Again, that's just what my group of friends thought, so I"m not speaking for any of you guys. Also, I'm sure there is a survey somewhere that gives the main reason why people bought the game. I wish they would have done something else besides Lunatic+ even if it is optional to the player.

Now this is a respectable opinion. The exact same about the Lunatic+ difficulty as the other guy.

And yet no bullcrap. No "buzzwords" that try to make you more "qualified" than you actual are. You're just simply stating what you think, why you think it, and without all the flawed extra baggage of speaking for other people.

Edited March 4, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Cowboy Karimov]

I bought it because I love Fire Emblem. That's it.

Same here.

Now, let's get back to the original point of the topic. Honestly, my ideal Fire Emblem would be so convoluted and user-unfriendly that it'd flop and the series would die, so I'm not hoping for it or anything. There'd be the huge maps from FE4, almost every stat from each game(even PCC and relative power) third-tier classes, a map(but no grinding), no arena to keep with my no grinding theme, no class swap, no skills(each unit is as good as they are), elevation affects your accuracy, ballistae(the tile), freelancers, no pair up, large amount of long chapters, etc. So it'd pretty much be a combination of Radiant Dawn and Gaiden.

Edited March 4, 2014 by HeavyBrawlsGuy

[Roivann]

Same here.

Now, let's get back to the original point of the topic. Honestly, my ideal Fire Emblem would be so convoluted and user-unfriendly that it'd flop and the series would die, so I'm not hoping for it or anything. There'd be the huge maps from FE4, almost every stat from each game(even PCC and relative power) third-tier classes, a map(but no grinding), no arena to keep with my no grinding theme, no class swap, no skills(each unit is as good as they are), elevation affects your accuracy, ballistae(the tile), freelancers, no pair up, large amount of long chapters, etc. So it'd pretty much be a combination of Radiant Dawn and Gaiden.

I'd want weapon weight to make a return.

[Cowboy Karimov]

I'd want weapon weight to make a return.

Almost every stat.

[Dandragon]

I'd like for light magic to make a return. I'd also like it for Great Knights to be sole Axe-wielding horseback units, instead of being armored versions of paladins with axe usage.

I honestly like it when a Fire Emblem game has a large amount of different classes, even if some of them seem to do the same thing. It gives a sense of variety that I enjoy, because then you can't really compare characters all that much as being a better version of themselves. Although some characters would probably have to be repeated classes, to me it gives a reason to use different characters other than simply liking them. I realize that logic has it's flaws, but I stick to it.

If skills do return, and I hope that they do, I prefer character specific skills to class specific skills, although there can be a mix. And for god's sake, no reclass. If they want to give units better stats and growths as a different unit, then they should make them that unit from the start. If they want a physical unit to start throwing magic, then make them a magic unit from the start. I don't care what you're reasoning is, characters are given specific classes to be for a reason.

As for the story, I really don't care, because after the first playthrough, I'm not playing it for the story, but rather because I found the gameplay fun.

I bought this game because it was a Fire Emblem game that looked fun and advanced. And it had 3D graphics. And voice acting. Then, after playing it, I saw what it brought. And I don't like it. I don't like it a god damn bit.

[shadowofchaos]

...The one thing I really miss: Stealing.

Like, have it as an exclusive class ability that only works when you're reclass to a thief or assassin, just like how the Taguel/Manakete effectiveness skills work.

Edited March 4, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Interceptor]

Well, that was a fairly pointless interlude. I hope everyone learned something useful. I know that I didn't.

I picked up Awakening because it's a Fire Emblem game. It's the only thing that's kept me in the Nintendo orbit, and I'll keep opening my wallet until they stop the franchise. I picked up all the DLC for this game, even though I have no interest in it (and haven't played 90% of it to this day), just to support FE.

My mind continues to be blown -- brains splattered on all interior walls -- by the people who advocate removing optional content for no other reason than personal preference.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Interceptor