Have your opinion of awakeing changed?

[RJWalker]

It's a vicious cycle.

[arvilino]

I think some people are just attached to their favourite titles being "the best" in most long running series. It's common that people will take it a bit too far and refuse acknowledge where features in non-favourite entries are done better, especially if it's in the case of a game they don't like some will flatly state its inferior in every regard.

For example the magic triangle in Fire Emblem. Some people will want it back to make mages v mages more significant but for some reason also want the +/- 1 might +/-10 hit system(with no weapon rank bonus) back which in any game where the player and enemy mages are of similar stats makes no difference and results in the low damage on both sides or where the players units are a lot better is the same doesn't stop your magic user easily defeating enemies even with WTD. It's less effective(at allowing mages do significant damage to each other) than simply adding up to 2 points of might to both sides(which the DS games onward do at A-rank tomes though it's still not that effective) with no triangle, but it doesn't stop people thinking +/-1 might +/- 10 hit is ideal game play and strategy-wise and that it's absence really matters.

Edited April 6, 2014 by arvilino

[Airship Canon]

For example the magic triangle in Fire Emblem. Some people will want it back to make mages v mages more significant but for some reason also want the +/- 1 might +/-10 hit system(with no weapon rank bonus) back which in any game where the player and enemy mages are of similar stats makes no difference and results in the low damage on both sides or where the players units are a lot better is the same doesn't stop your magic user easily defeating enemies even with WTD. It's less effective(at allowing mages do significant damage to each other) than simply adding up to 2 points of might to both sides(which the DS games onward do at A-rank tomes though it's still not that effective) with no triangle, but it doesn't stop people thinking +/-1 might +/- 10 hit is ideal game play and strategy-wise and that it's absence really matters.

The Magic Triangle isn't bad or poorly balanced. It should be there, but it should be using the same thing the physical triangle does. [Weapon Rank Bonus, Negation on disadvantage, and the normal effects.]

[arvilino]

The Magic Triangle isn't bad or poorly balanced. It should be there, but it should be using the same thing the physical triangle does. [Weapon Rank Bonus, Negation on disadvantage, and the normal effects.]

My point was people's overwhelming preference for certain games has them wanting an ineffective version of the magic triangle back to mirror a certain game instead of taking certain mechanics from a number of the games like weapon rank bonuses, or perhaps an entirely new system to give it greater significance.

Edited April 7, 2014 by arvilino

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

For example the magic triangle in Fire Emblem. Some people will want it back to make mages v mages more significant but for some reason also want the +/- 1 might +/-10 hit system(with no weapon rank bonus)

I really would like to see the magic weapon triangle back, how it works in the Tellius series. It was fair and consequent. But it only makes really sense, if light magic would return as well. Otherwise there is no weapon triangle in the magic types.

The Magic Triangle isn't bad or poorly balanced. It should be there, but it should be using the same thing the physical triangle does. [Weapon Rank Bonus, Negation on disadvantage, and the normal effects.]

The magic weapon triangle should return, but it should work like in the Tellius series. I do not like the negation, if you got a disadvantage in the weapon triangle. To my mind it is not fair and kinda cheap.

[Airship Canon]

I really would like to see the magic weapon triangle back, how it works in the Tellius series. It was fair and consequent. But it only makes really sense, if light magic would return as well. Otherwise there is no weapon triangle in the magic types.

The magic weapon triangle should return, but it should work like in the Tellius series. I do not like the negation, if you got a disadvantage in the weapon triangle. To my mind it is not fair and kinda cheap.

Weapon Rank Bonus Negation is what gives the triangle strength and importance.

Otherwise, it's a rather meaningless +/- 1 MT, +/- 10 Hit factor.

The point is that it needs to exist [so strategic choices are made] and it needs to be STRONG so it has impact.

[ClassyWolf]

I think some people are just attached to their favourite titles being "the best" in most long running series. It's common that people will take it a bit too far and refuse acknowledge where features in non-favourite entries are done better, especially if it's in the case of a game they don't like some will flatly state its inferior in every regard.

Here I'm gonna be an asshole and say look in the mirror.

There are a lot of mechanics I wonder why they didn't bring back (for example hight differences) and awakening really needs 2 magic triangles a la PoR & RD, because, even if it has wind, fire and tunder, fire is the thing you will never use because it has no advantages why you would use it over tunder, or wind if your fighting fliers, and all the anima magics are left in the dark for the supperior magic... well dark, so yes, awakeing really needs something to give DM and sorcs a dissadvange (like the trinity of magic or weight).

And I can tell I really don't find any FE "the best" in the series, they have their pros and cons and I pretty much like them all... with the exeption of awakening.

[metalsnowman3]

my thoughts on awakening have changed dramatically. it was my first fire emblem game and got me into the series but after spending about a year playing other ones in the series i look at this and realize its not as good as i thought. like all the chapters are rout enemy and defeat boss. and the reclassing seems bad to me like shadow dragons i could handle it doesnt make a unit overpowered but awakenings is awful if you spotpass someone 80% of the time there maxed stats. also the magic got awful radiant dawn had the best with the light and dark as well as wind fire and thunder but awakening dumbed it down to almost nothing. the skill system is weaker i feel in this game anyone can get almost any skills making units seem less enjoyable like in genealogy lex was unique because of his paragon skill but in awakening each class ends up the same.

I've played plenty of the FE games and even the ones that have some different ones like defend would only show up on like a few maps. I mean FE4 is only sieze the gate (a lot of gates). The magic system is a fair criticism but I don't really get IS opinion on the WT because for radiant dawn hard mode didn't they take all of that out, which definitely changed my strategies (and imo did make it harder) so maybe they don't all like the WT. I like the skill system in awakening more than FE10 cause it seemed weird to me that you could just keep swapping them.

[arvilino]

Here I'm gonna be an asshole and say look in the mirror.

There are a lot of mechanics I wonder why they didn't bring back (for example hight differences) and awakening really needs 2 magic triangles a la PoR & RD, because, even if it has wind, fire and tunder, fire is the thing you will never use because it has no advantages why you would use it over tunder, or wind if your fighting fliers, and all the anima magics are left in the dark for the supperior magic... well dark, so yes, awakeing really needs something to give DM and sorcs a dissadvange (like the trinity of magic or weight).

And I can tell I really don't find any FE "the best" in the series, they have their pros and cons and I pretty much like them all... with the exeption of awakening.

You're not getting my point. If Nosferatu in FE13 had 1 less might and 10 less hit this wouldn't exactly make it much less useful, so a weapon triangle a la PoR and RD with -1 might and -10 hit when facing light magic users is far, far, far too small to be of any impact.

Same with PoR the amount of might between Thunder and Wind magic tomes of the same rank are greater than the bonus point from WTA, or in other words using Thunder(4 might) against a Thunder mage(since mages aren't very fast in Tellius games) is typically more effective than using Wind(2 might) with WTA(+1) against a Thunder tome user apart from taking 1 point less damage. The gap gets even bigger between Elwind(4 might) and Elthunder(7 might).

Yes it was in PoR and RD in concept give each type of magic a disadvantage or advantage but it's glaringly obvious a single point of damage on each side(so 2 in total) and 10 hit isn't nearly big enough for it to be executed well(just no one notices because magic users are pretty weak in the Tellius games and because it's so small it doesn't really effect the game balance at all).

To say the PoR/RD magic triangle would be of significance to Awakening would be like saying enemy Valkyries with the skill Resistance+2 have a big advantage over Nosferatu Sorcerers.

Edited April 7, 2014 by arvilino

[shadowofchaos]

The magic weapon triangle should return, but it should work like in the Tellius series. I do not like the negation, if you got a disadvantage in the weapon triangle. To my mind it is not fair and kinda cheap.

While still a little "meh" on making it matter, there would a little more meaning in it if you negated another +2 might to disadvantaged one if their weapon rank was an A?

It would alleviate the issue of it being of negligible significance when your weapon ranks are getting higher and higher.

Let's face it... in RD, weapon triangle disadvantaged mattered less and less after Part 1. ESPECIALLY on mages.

Edited April 7, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Czar_Yoshi]

The magic weapon triangle should return, but it should work like in the Tellius series. I do not like the negation, if you got a disadvantage in the weapon triangle. To my mind it is not fair and kinda cheap.

Losing 1-3 points of damage from something that never changes between resets is cheap?

OK. On the easier difficulties in Awakening, enemy stats randomly fluctuate between resets by that much. I suppose that's kind of cheap too, right? Nevermind Lunatic+...

I'd personally take WTD penalties even further and cancel support bonuses (the +Hit/Avo/Dge/Crit) if you're on the losing end. Getting your Axe's +10 Hit knocked off doesn't really matter when you have +15 from your S support.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Airship Canon]

Losing 1-3 points of damage from something that never changes between resets is cheap?

OK. On the easier difficulties in Awakening, enemy stats randomly fluctuate between resets by that much. I suppose that's kind of cheap too, right? Nevermind Lunatic+...

I'd personally take WTD penalties even further and cancel support bonuses (the +Hit/Avo/Dge/Crit) if you're on the losing end. Getting your Axe's +10 Hit knocked off doesn't really matter when you have +15 from your S support.

That sounds like a good idea for an enemy skill. (Or just a skill in general if the enemy had supports)

You don't use lose the WRB, there's still a WTD penalty on top of that.

Axe loses 25 Hit. [WRB negation [-10], WTD [-15]]

So even with a support, that's still losing 10 (and 2 MT).

[Not to mention, Sword guys typically are fast, and Axe guys have low Skill]

The Physical Triangle is right where it should be in Awakening, really.

The lack of a Magic Triangle hurts.

[LuxSpes]

The fact that there's no triangle and that magic was grouped up as without distinction(except for dark) made it feel pretty generic. Wind have an added plus that the others lacked and Thunder at least more damage and crit rate, but fire felt pretty useless. I preferred the system of RD where there were Wind, Fire and Thunder mage and that each magic had their own unique 'S-E match-up'(Fire>Beast, Thunder>Dragon, Wind>Flying)

[Airship Canon]

The fact that there's no triangle and that magic was grouped up as without distinction(except for dark) made it feel pretty generic. Wind have an added plus that the others lacked and Thunder at least more damage and crit rate, but fire felt pretty useless. I preferred the system of RD where there were Wind, Fire and Thunder mage and that each magic had their own unique 'S-E match-up'(Fire>Beast, Thunder>Dragon, Wind>Flying)

Fire being effective on Beast would be pretty broken in Awakening [since Mounted is beasts], except CG would STILL be better in most cases.

I kinda think that Magic, Bows, and Melee weapons should triangle each other.

Although, if they go with the common Mage beats knight [Magic > Melee], Knight beats Archer [Melee > Bows], Archer beats Mage [bows > Magic] set up seen in a lot of other fantasy settings [mostly MMOs] that'd be imba in favor of Magic, which already is a problem, so it probably should be reversed.[Melee > Magic > Bow > Melee]

[Duke of Dozel]

Fire being effective on Beast would be pretty broken in Awakening [since Mounted is beasts], except CG would STILL be better in most cases.

I kinda think that Magic, Bows, and Melee weapons should triangle each other.

Although, if they go with the common Mage beats knight [Magic > Melee], Knight beats Archer [Melee > Bows], Archer beats Mage [bows > Magic] set up seen in a lot of other fantasy settings [mostly MMOs] that'd be imba in favor of Magic, which already is a problem, so it probably should be reversed.[Melee > Magic > Bow > Melee]

I like the idea a lot, but what do you think could make Light and Dark have their own part? Should they just be inter grated in the magic part?

[Beelzebub]

I think my opinion of Awakening will largely depend on where they take the direction of the series in the future. As it stands now, I have tried so hard to like it, but at best I can muster up ambivalence. Aesthetically I find the game unpleasing: I don't care for the story, I find the characters to be uninspired (I won't comment of the dating sim stuff), the maps are generic, the music is bland to my ears, and the avatar appears little more than fan-fiction; at this level I find the game to be quite shallow.

Of course, the gameplay is what matters. Truth be told, it rubs me the wrong way in its philosophy. It gives you unlimited resources with which to grow your characters- something not foreign to the RPG genre, but quite the departure from previous games (even in Sacred Stones you were limited by the level caps and the unit’s class). The toughest enemy, then, is your free time, or lack thereof. Truth be told, the 'nab the skill' gameplay reminds me quite a bit of FFT (which is a great game, but it should not be this game). Furthermore, pair-up lets you overcome weaknesses in your units and their classes, creating a veritable blob of stats that lacks individuality (individuality is further reduced by the rather transient nature of classes in this title). This is purely subjective, but I enjoyed it when they gave you meager resources- you were appreciative of what you got, and when you succeeded in the face of it all you felt like a champion. Beating the game here speaks of your patience, not of your skill.

However, as I said this all depends of the direction the series is headed. I hope this game will be a Gaiden- a departure that can be appreciated for what it is. But if the series becomes more shallow in the ways I have described, I know where I will direct my ire. That said, I have complete faith in IS, earned by the great games they've given us; however, the grinding DLC has planted seeds of doubt in the back of my mind.

[Czar_Yoshi]

DLC isn't a pile of unlimited resources, it's an option to pay for power (and more challenge/content). It's also completely optional, which is why no-grind runs are a thing. I'd strongly recommend that you try Lunatic(+), because the earlygame is pretty much exactly this:

This is purely subjective, but I enjoyed it when they gave you meager resources- you were appreciative of what you got, and when you succeeded in the face of it all you felt like a champion.

[PuffPuff]

It's nice that for once they gave you better stuff to deal with on higher difficulties and to get a chance to go over 9000 at a much earlier time and to give it Gaiden-like elements. No grind runs are a sure thing, but sometimes, going in the face of battle with you overpowering them is also fun as it is sometimes fun to pick on your enemies weaker than you. (Especially, since you paid for the content and having more challenging episodes like The Secret Spa, The Future Past, Palla's, Catria's and Est's DLC's as well as Apotheosis anyway.) ...And it's nice that they have this anyway to give younger audiences to enjoy the games as well. Thank you, Casual.

But...just like in the previous titles, you usually can't get Silver Weapon and divine weapons until your near the end of the games. As Beelzebub said..."You were appreciative with what you've got throughout the game and having to manage the meager resources that you have." Even so, volumes like FE7 except on harder difficulties, you don't really need more than Iron weapon for most of the game anyway and that just about any character is manageable to raise equally with the foes having lousy speed except for Swordmasters and Valkyries. Nintendo purposely made that a welcoming experience for us newcomers who never touched the series before SSBM came out. Fire Emblem 3 Book I, you can beat it without promoting.

About Beezlebub's complaint about the game, the stuff that your getting off of Spotpass (That you can absolutely get for free) are actually required on harder difficulties. Ever tried this on Lunatic/Lunatic+ without DLC? Because this game is hard enough even with the use of DLC. Let's not forget that Counter absolutely breaks this game in half as you have no way to nullify it, the enemies on hardest difficulties often throw them at you and walking up to you to set off like a time bomb whenever hitting them causing you to literally break you 3ds in half as this causes many restarts on Lunatic+. They rarely do this on Lunatic in the later stages. No matter how strong that you get, Counter will always defeat troops with minimal effort. The maps have a nasty habit of surrounding you on the hardest difficulties designed to piss you off whenever your characters are getting slaughtered like cattle as you don't get a moments rest some of the time to heal them up. They also jack up the enemy's stats on Lunatic/Lunatic+ in the skirmishes making it almost, if not impossible to get gold in them without Lethality. So instead of complaining about the game, try to have fun with it. If you can. Hard, Lunatic, Lunatic+ will relieve your boredom. Trust me.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Dark_Huntress

[Czar_Yoshi]

SSBM came out more than 12 years ago. That's more than half the time FE has been around (and before it was localized). I wouldn't exactly call someone who got into FE immediately after playing SSBM a newcomer.

Renown makes a bigger difference than the Bonus Box in Lunatic+ and that's NG+, not DLC. It can still be done without either anyway.

[PuffPuff]

SSBM came out more than 12 years ago. That's more than half the time FE has been around (and before it was localized). I wouldn't exactly call someone who got into FE immediately after playing SSBM a newcomer.

Not everyone has played the series this way.

I've actually found out about it with my brother on RPGamer two years before SSBM cameout and the music tracks I listened to 3 were really good!

[Czar_Yoshi]

My point is that if you've been playing FE for that long (since Melee), you're hardly a newcomer.

[arvilino]

My point is that if you've been playing FE for that long (since Melee), you're hardly a newcomer.

I think she meant at the time Blazing Sword was released. They're not newcomers now, but in 2003 and 2004 they were and Blazing Sword was pretty welcoming, since it wasn't impossible for newcomers(myself included) at the time to complete the game while "conserving"(never using) rare weapons or stat boosters.

Edited April 11, 2014 by arvilino

[Primrose]

In my humble opinion,

First of all, it seems that many english speakers have not found the game’s story to be as compelling as the rest of the game itself (and I include myself in that batch). Recently I’ve come across an insightful argument that caught my attention. The writer argued that story length was too long/expansive for the game's twenty or so chapters. I believe this is precisely the problem with the game. There are too many arcs and some that do not need to be there and still some that are just not believable like the old classics. A Prince and a Princess are being escorted by ONE meagre Knight across the country? Come on! What is that? The logic of that action given the current political system of the time just doesn’t make sense. What if Chrom and Lissa found the avatar floating down river to the banks of their garden inside the castle? Yes, that’s is just as convenient but the difference here is that it is much more believable! Details such as these, if they were given a little bit more thought, would have resulted in a much more engaging story.

Although, on another note, a more positive one this time; allowing the player to insert themselves into the story was a very clever move on IS’s behalf. A tactician that actually helps out. Who knew right?
Lastly, one of the other elements that I believe contribute to a sub-par story is that it’s most fragile component - the dialogue itself - was perhaps damaged in translation when it set out overseas. I sincerely believe (and hope that it is true) that the Japanese versions of the characters were much more fleshed out, their dialogue much more attuned to their personalities than the one’s we’ve received on our end (I am looking at you Say’ri and Chrom).

Other than that, I do not think anyway who has been paying attention to the story and have completed the game can say that it was anything other than that they enjoyed the journey of the Chrom, Lissa, Fredrick and ofcourse me, Primrose!

Edited April 12, 2014 by Primrose

[ClassyWolf]

You're not getting my point. If Nosferatu in FE13 had 1 less might and 10 less hit this wouldn't exactly make it much less useful, so a weapon triangle a la PoR and RD with -1 might and -10 hit when facing light magic users is far, far, far too small to be of any impact.

Same with PoR the amount of might between Thunder and Wind magic tomes of the same rank are greater than the bonus point from WTA, or in other words using Thunder(4 might) against a Thunder mage(since mages aren't very fast in Tellius games) is typically more effective than using Wind(2 might) with WTA(+1) against a Thunder tome user apart from taking 1 point less damage. The gap gets even bigger between Elwind(4 might) and Elthunder(7 might).

Yes it was in PoR and RD in concept give each type of magic a disadvantage or advantage but it's glaringly obvious a single point of damage on each side(so 2 in total) and 10 hit isn't nearly big enough for it to be executed well(just no one notices because magic users are pretty weak in the Tellius games and because it's so small it doesn't really effect the game balance at all).

To say the PoR/RD magic triangle would be of significance to Awakening would be like saying enemy Valkyries with the skill Resistance+2 have a big advantage over Nosferatu Sorcerers.

I'll put it in very simple words this time so there will be no missunderstanding what I mean: I don't mean that it should be exactly like RD or PoR, but that awakening really needs something to counter the brokendness of dark magic (as a point in talking about magic)... thats it.

[RJWalker]

Weapon Weight kept Noseferatu in check. Bring back Weapon Weight.