How exactly was Daein blamed for the serenesforest massacre?

[IceBrand]

The Beginon senators blamed the Herons for the death of the Apostle and the citizens attacked. If most of the Begnion citizens help murder the herons, most of country already knows the truth. And possible there could have been some from Crimea who was probably in Begnion when they attacked. Wouldn't they also know the truth? Has the whole country been keeping this a secret and the only one who didn't know was Sanaki?

[NinjaMonkey]

Daein had nothing to do with the Serenes Massacre. Also, the truth is that the Apostle was killed by the senators (a fact which wasn't revealed to the public).

[Raze200]

Errr I never heard that. I recall bengion citizens takeing up mob stuff and smokeing herons.

[IceBrand]

Remember how in RD the narrator mentioned the forest was destroyed by the Mad King Ashnard?

[BrightBow]

The Beginon senators blamed the Herons for the death of the Apostle and the citizens attacked. If most of the Begnion citizens help murder the herons, most of country already knows the truth. And possible there could have been some from Crimea who was probably in Begnion when they attacked. Wouldn't they also know the truth? Has the whole country been keeping this a secret and the only one who didn't know was Sanaki?

Wait, who said that the Begnion senators loudly accused the Serenes? I always assumed that they were merely spreading rumors on the streets and let the inevitable mob do the rest.

20 years later in the wage of the war with Daein, it was reasonable for Team Ike to assume that Ashnard was responsible after they found out that he

a) was in possession of the Fire Emblem before Elena took it and left Daein with Gawain

b) and held the Heron Princess Lilia captive until she died

Edited April 3, 2014 by BrightBow

[IceBrand]

Once the Apostle was murdered they blamed it on the Herons. Lekain was the one who created the plan.

[BrightBow]

Once the Apostle was murdered they blamed it on the Herons. Lekain was the one who created the plan.

Well, yes. But they didn't make a public announcement to claim that the Serenes were the killers. So how would anyone know?

Edited April 3, 2014 by BrightBow

[IceBrand]

Well, yes. But they didn't make a public announcement that the Serenes were the killers. So how would anyone know?

If that's true then why attack them? Especially since they're know for their non-violent behavior.

[BrightBow]

If that's true then why attack them? Especially since they're know for their non-violent behavior.

By spreading rumors? Works wonders in the real world too. The events leading to the massacre were described in ch16. Just the origin of the rumors wasn't known back then.

Nasir: It begins with the assasination of the previous Begnion apostle. It was twenty years ago... One year after the declaration of emancipation was made. The leader at the time was the Apostle Misaha, who was more adored by the public than any apostle before...or since. When she was assassinated, the citizenry was wracked with grief. All of Begnion despaired. And then, a rumor began to circulate that the assassination was the work of the Serenes herons. In the twinkling of an eye, the rumor spread throughout the Begnion capital. One night shortly thereafter, it happened. The citizens grew violent. They massed at the edge of Serenes Forest, home of their supposed enemy, and set it to burn. The crowd raged on for three nights, and in the end, the heron clan was lost.

The issue of the Serenes not being able to fight was also adressed:

The heron clan possess no fighting skills. Their tribe survived by living a life of peace and piety within their forest. Unlike other laguz, they never focused on developing their strength for the purposes of combat. Anyone with any knowledge of laguz would have known such a thing. At the very least, the citizens of Begnion would have known this. However, they had lost their leader, and in their grief, they cared little for the truth. They were merely looking for some way to vent their rage and despair. Isn't that true...Apostle?

Edited April 3, 2014 by BrightBow

[IceBrand]

By spreading rumors? Works wonders in the real world too. The events leading to the massacre were described in ch16. Just the origin of the rumors wasn't known back then.

Nasir: It begins with the assasination of the previous Begnion apostle. It was twenty years ago... One year after the declaration of emancipation was made. The leader at the time was the Apostle Misaha, who was more adored by the public than any apostle before...or since. When she was assassinated, the citizenry was wracked with grief. All of Begnion despaired. And then, a rumor began to circulate that the assassination was the work of the Serenes herons. In the twinkling of an eye, the rumor spread throughout the Begnion capital. One night shortly thereafter, it happened. The citizens grew violent. They massed at the edge of Serenes Forest, home of their supposed enemy, and set it to burn. The crowd raged on for three nights, and in the end, the heron clan was lost.

...

The heron clan possess no fighting skills. Their tribe survived by living a life of peace and piety within their forest. Unlike other laguz, they never focused on developing their strength for the purposes of combat. Anyone with any knowledge of laguz would have known such a thing. At the very least, the citizens of Begnion would have known this. However, they had lost their leader, and in their grief, they cared little for the truth. They were merely looking for some way to vent their rage and despair. Isn't that true...Apostle?

That clears most of it up. But why was Ashnard blamed?

[BrightBow]

That clears most of it up. But why was Ashnard blamed?

20 years later in the wage of the war with Daein, it was reasonable for Team Ike to assume that Ashnard was responsible after they found out that he

a) was in possession of the Fire Emblem before Elena took it and left Daein with Gawain

b) and held the Heron Princess Lilia captive until she died

Ashnard was never connected by the game to the Serenes massacre before chapter 22, where it was revealed that he held Lilia captive, who was kidnapped during the night of the massacre. They don't know for sure that he kidnapped her but it was a reasonable assumption given the circumstances.

Reyson: She was kidnapped twenty years ago, on the night of the Serenes Massacre. I...I thought that Lillia had been murdered along with my other brothers and sisters. I believed that until today...

...

Ike:Who took her?

Reyson: The walls say only that he was a large human. She probably never knew who it was.

...

Reyson: King Ashnard took Lillia, didn't he?

Ike: That would be the final piece of the puzzle. After all, the man who found my father was the king's henchman.

Quite frankly, I still don't get how he got his hands on Lilia. No matter how desperate he was at the time, I can't imagine that Lehran would go as far as to kidnap his own relative, hand her over to Ashnard and allow her to die in his captivity. But Lehran in chapter RD F4 does mention that he and Ashnard could use either a war or "heron galdrar". So Lilia must have been a part of his plan back then.

Edit:

Well, okay, Lehran pretty much confirms it in the extended script of F4. I got foiled once again by that abridged script that we got.

Sephiran: Because originally the medallion belonged with me. 23 years ago, I placed it with Princess Lillia of Serenes.

Also, Lillia was also there when Lehran visited the Altar during the massacre, as seen here.

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/cg/44.png

Things make sense now but... damn. I wouldn't have thought that Lehran would have gone that far.

So back to the topic, I guess.

Edited April 3, 2014 by BrightBow

[IceBrand]

Maybe Lehran had Ashnard hold Lilia if Ashnard were to use the medallion?

[Paper Jam]

Who says that Ashnard was in league with Lehran when he took Lillia? Ashnard could have been doing his own thing at the time.

Come to think of it, Ashnard might not have been such a bad guy at the time; the Serenes Massacre did take place 20 years prior to PoR, and Zephiel proves how much a person can change in 20 years. Maybe Ashnard's intent was not to kidnap Lillia, but to rescue her.

[PKL]

Who says that Ashnard was in league with Lehran when he took Lillia? Ashnard could have been doing his own thing at the time.

Come to think of it, Ashnard might not have been such a bad guy at the time; the Serenes Massacre did take place 20 years prior to PoR, and Zephiel proves how much a person can change in 20 years. Maybe Ashnard's intent was not to kidnap Lillia, but to rescue her.

Im pretty sure Ashnard killed his whole family or something like that. Havent played POR in centuries though, so i might not be RELIABLE the source.

Edited April 4, 2014 by PKL

[Jotari]

According to Lehran's own memories the Senators publicly announced a serenes assassin. That is was caused by a rumor must have been in itself a rumor.

[BrightBow]

According to Lehran's own memories the Senators publicly announced a serenes assassin. That is was caused by a rumor must have been in itself a rumor.

In the notes with the extended script at this site, it says that the English version is different at this part. So the change is apparently unrelated to the script being abridged in the first place.

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/script/4_F4b.html

I quote the relevant part along with the note written there:

[Note: This flashback scene is slightly different in the English version]

Civilian

What? It can't be true! Our apostle...

Civilian

Can't believe it myself. But the senators made an announcement! It must be true!

Lehran

Pardon me? Has something happened to the apostle?

Civilian

Oh, my lord sage! The apostle! She's...she's dead.

Lehran

What? How?

Civilian

It's still a recent announcement... we don't fully know what's happened!

Civilian

She was assassinated! It was the doing of the Serenes herons!

Civilian

What?

Lehran

Peace, friends! This is simply not possible. The heron tribe could never assassinate anyone, they...

Here, it says nothing about the senators openly claiming that the Serenes were at fault.

And there is someone who claims that the Serenes were at fault immediately after someone who witnessed the announcement said that it wasn't really known yet what actually happened. So there is no way that this was part of the announcement that the senators made. They probably announced little more then that the Apostle died.

Edited April 4, 2014 by BrightBow

[Jotari]

Goddamn script variations.

Edit: And ooh they overlapped the important things people said to Lehran in the original. Why didn't they do that in the English version? I think that would have been a very effective way of showing the strain he went through.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Jotari

[BrightBow]

Edit: And ooh they overlapped the important things people said to Lehran in the original. Why didn't they do that in the English version? I think that would have been a very effective way of showing the strain he went through.

You should read the rest of the scene immediately afterwards when Lehran is at the altar in the forest. In my case, the extended version really got to me despite it being only text.

Edited April 4, 2014 by BrightBow

[Jotari]

You should read the rest of the scene immediately afterwards when Lehran is at the altar in the forest. In my case, the extended version really got to me despite it being only text.

I did read the section afterwards and now I intend to read all the entire thing. I can't help but assume Lehran went on a killing spree then and there. At least that seems to be the implication with the humans about to attack him.

[Logience]

Retcons: Yet another way for people to endlessly squabble over nitpicks.

[CrimsonSentinel]

So, Lehran confirms that it was he who told Ashnard about the Medallion (supposedly when he's bringing Micaiah to Daein), but if he really did plan out Ashnard abducting Lillia, that means that Lehran decided to erase all beorc and laguz BEFORE the Serenes Massacre.

[Jotari]

So, Lehran confirms that it was he who told Ashnard about the Medallion (supposedly when he's bringing Micaiah to Daein), but if he really did plan out Ashnard abducting Lillia, that means that Lehran decided to erase all beorc and laguz BEFORE the Serenes Massacre.

This will probably get closed because it was a necro but I'll respond anyway. Why would you assume it was when he was bringing Micaiah to Daein? Occulm's razor would suggest he kidnapped Lillia and brought her to Daein and handed her over to Ashnard. That Ashnard never personally showed up in the forest. Lillia says she was kidnapped by a big man but that easily could have just meant she was being held prisoner by a big man and probably had no idea where she was or how she got there.

[Freedom's Arrow]

More to the OP's initial question, Ike and company didn't buy that the herons killed the previous Apostle, but had no idea that the senate did either. If I recall correctly from Path of Radiance, I think it was more or less just assumed that Ashnard did it because of how snug it fit the broader scheme of his that they were slowly piecing together. Ashnard wanted Lehran's Medallion and a heron to release it with galdr, and these things seemed to have fallen into his lap taking advantage of the chaos that was the Serenes Massacre. This worked out so nicely for him that they seem to have concluded that he orchestrated the genocide in the first place to make away with them in the confusion. Of course, Rafiel informs us that they were wrong 3 years later, and that realization is what triggers Part 3's war.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Freedom's Arrow