Would, Ike will return for the new Smash bros?

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

I'd like to see Ike return. He's a cool guy. I feel like Chrom is pretty similar to Ike, and it'd be interesting if they were both in it. Although, I'd prefer to have Roy over both of them. I don't want Avatar or Lucina. Lucina is too much like Marth, and I'm not too big a fan of her character. Well, actually if she were in it I'd probably main her anyway because boredom (So I guess I go back on my previous statement that I don't want Lucina). On the other hand, Avatar should not come in (in my opinion at least). (S)He's not a very good character, and I'd prefer many other characters to him/her.

I want Hector/Ephraim the most, but that won't happen.

I also think that Ike has maybe a 50/50 shot at his return. Because of Chrom.

[BANRYU]

The AC Villager doesn't have a set appearance either though, right? Avatar shouldn't be much of a stretch as the third rep along with Ike and Marth.

I'd argue that this is one of the problems with the Villager as a playable character, even though I really do like the idea and how creative his moves are (seriously... if there's not a female villager... I'm calling bullshit/sexism).

I think the Avatar IS that much of a stretch because of all the various complications that come with the character, aside from the stock appearance (which really, isn't that much of an issue).

[Kyea]

The AC Villager doesn't have a set appearance either though, right? Avatar shouldn't be much of a stretch as the third rep along with Ike and Marth.

That is a fair point. I also hope that there is a female villager. And if there's Avatar, they better be female and male as well!

[Anacybele]

Wii Fit Trainer has both genders, so Sakurai would be pretty dumb not to give Villager that option too. :/ Same with Avatar if he/she gets in. Or, Sakurai could even go the extra mile with the customization stuff he's been talking about and let us customize the Avatar a bit. Not as much as in Awakening though, just face, hair color, and style.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[BANRYU]

If we WERE going to get a cosmetic customization system for the characters, then I might be all for it (the Villager certainly deserves something like that as well). However, we've seen no indication that there's going to be customization for anything but Special moves, so I think it's safe to say that the most customization we'll get for the villagers is in color... ...which would be okay, I guess.... But no, we're not getting any wider range of cosmetic customization than we've already seen in the series, I'm almost positive of that.

No, but as I said, there are other complications with making the avatar a playable character that are unrelated to his/her appearance, like the acknowledgement of what is basically a self-insert character, who radically changes the way the supports only part of the story that anyone cares about depending on the player. It's... It's just... Look, I don't know how to explain it, but it's more complicated than you realize, allright? Dx Trust me on this one, I don't think Awakening's Avatar is going to be a playable character. I am willing to bet real money or anything else you can name on it.

Yeah, I play the sexism card with the villager (and not Samus or any other nonsense) mainly because this: The WFT was revealed, and I'm assuming one reason people were excited about her is because she's a female character in a series sorely lacking them. Okay, yay! But wait-- she has a male version too? Oh... okay... gender equality. That's cool. But um... hey, what about that other character that was also strictly gender-neutral/choosable? ...It's a dude? Okay, but like the WFT, this character can be female too, right? ....right?

TBH I doubt that the Villager is getting a female version because the male WFT was shown in the latest NDD, but nothing was mentioned of any other characters having such a distinction. Why would Sakurai point that out for one character but ignore it if it was the case with another? Because of this I'm already getting a little mad about the Villager even though we don't know for sure lol.

[Anacybele]

Why would Sakurai make the male version of Wii Fit Trainer available, but not add a female version of Villager? That's what makes no sense to me.

[BANRYU]

Yeah I agree, Ana. I could make a potentially culturally-insensitive comment about sexism in Japan, but I think I'll save it for if/when it proves to be warranted.

[Anacybele]

Japanese do seem to think men are superior to women though. Look at the ratio of male leads in Nintendo's games to females. And the ratio of male characters to female. In Fire Emblem alone, a vast majority of the lords are male, and even then, the female lords are always accompanied by at least one male in their game. I also heard that in Asian countries, women must always take the man's last name when they marry. They also get put into arranged marriages and made to be brides to order.

I think it's a stupid idea, as women can do just fine by themselves and can do as many great things as men. This is a reason my original female lord has the personality she has, actually.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[Florete]

There is something discussion worthy here, but it's in the wrong place at the moment.

[Anacybele]

True, you're right, this isn't the place to be discussing Japan's views on women. xP

Anyway, um... I'm still picking a god and praying that Ike stays in the roster. :P

[BANRYU]

The main reason I declined to go into detail on the sexism thing is knowledge of my own ignorance on the matter. I'm aware of these things you pointed out, Ana, but I'm also aware of the fact that there is other information on the subject that I don't know-- something I suggest you keep in mind as well.

Unless of course, you've extensively studied gender relations in Japan.

^{(TBH women in America don't have it as great as people might think either)}

Anyway, this is off-topic, sorry.

Uh, yeah... Ike. The more time goes on, the more I start to think Lucina might be more plausible than I initially considered. Lucina + Ike also seems like a more probable combination than Chrom + Ike to me, somehow.

Edited May 2, 2014 by BANRYU

[Anacybele]

I hope Lucina doesn't get in since I like her even less than Chrom and I still don't think she will because she'd work just fine as a costume for Marth given how much they look alike. Tiki mistakes Lucina for Marth and she isn't even wearing the mask anymore. I think Chrom or Avatar + Ike makes more sense since they both stand out more and Avatar's main weapon is magic, rather than a sword (he/she starts out equipped with magic, so yeah). Chrom could also have a lance or two added to his moveset (as could Lucina, but as I pointed out, Marth resemblance) and make use of his shield.

I'd pick Avatar, personally, because of the magic thing and the fact that he/she would stand out the most. There's also the fact that searching "Robin" in the SSB site brings up results, even though it could refer to Isaac since I heard that's his Japanese name.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Anacybele

[HK Motendra]

There's also the fact that searching "Robin" in the SSB site brings up results, even though it could refer to Isaac since I heard that's his Japanese name.

Where is this? There's no such search function in the SSB4 site

[Robert Stewart]

Where is this? There's no such search function in the SSB4 site

google site:smashbros.com "whatever character here"

[BANRYU]

I hope Lucina doesn't get in since I like her even less than Chrom and I still don't think she will because she'd work just fine as a costume for Marth given how much they look alike. Tiki mistakes Lucina for Marth and she isn't even wearing the mask anymore. I think Chrom or Avatar + Ike makes more sense since they both stand out more and Avatar's main weapon is magic, rather than a sword (he/she starts out equipped with magic, so yeah). Chrom could also have a lance or two added to his moveset (as could Lucina, but as I pointed out, Marth resemblance) and make use of his shield.

I'd pick Avatar, personally, because of the magic thing and the fact that he/she would stand out the most. There's also the fact that searching "Robin" in the SSB site brings up results, even though it could refer to Isaac since I heard that's his Japanese name.

Okay I know about the Marth resemblance thing; I've pointed it out numerous times myself, so there's no need to play that card on me.

(Also why would Tiki mistake Lucina for Marth if she had the mask, the real Marth never wore a fucking mask)

The difference here is I'm trying to think about what is actually plausible from a game design standpoint, not only what I want to see. Obviously Lucina's similarities to Marth are a strike against her chances of being playable, but what I'm saying is that the more I think about it, I'm starting to think that's the only mark against her. She is markedly different than Chrom, and one could interpret her more feminine playstyle as lighter and faster (or even just different, there are a lot of nuances that can be used to differentiate sword characters) than Marth's. Chrom seems like more of a heavy fighter, and if I had to guess (which of course is all I can do), I'd say he's closer to Ike, and thus more liable to replace him IF he's in. Also worth noting is that, among Fire Emblem fans, the general consensus seems to be that more people actually like Lucina, as opposed to Chrom (who most people don't dislike, but rather, are more ambivalent toward; more people are likely to have like a 'yeah okay' reaction to Chrom as opposed to a reaction of actual excitement to Lucina... just based on what I've heard anyway). As I said, I don't think it means Lucina necessarily is GOING to be in instead of Chrom or that Chrom would replace Ike, but they're possible outcomes to consider with credible logic behind them.

And I've already talked about why Robin/Avatar/the Tactician is not such a good option from a game design standpoint due to various other complications. I'd be FINE with it if it DID happen, but I don't think it's going to. Has nothing to do with how I'd feel about playing him/her, just with my opinion on the character's chances.

[Kyea]

Okay I know about the Marth resemblance thing; I've pointed it out numerous times myself, so there's no need to play that card on me.

(Also why would Tiki mistake Lucina for Marth if she had the mask, the real Marth never wore a fucking mask)

The difference here is I'm trying to think about what is actually plausible from a game design standpoint, not only what I want to see. Obviously Lucina's similarities to Marth are a strike against her chances of being playable, but what I'm saying is that the more I think about it, I'm starting to think that's the only mark against her. She is markedly different than Chrom, and one could interpret her more feminine playstyle as lighter and faster (or even just different, there are a lot of nuances that can be used to differentiate sword characters) than Marth's. Chrom seems like more of a heavy fighter, and if I had to guess (which of course is all I can do), I'd say he's closer to Ike, and thus more liable to replace him IF he's in. Also worth noting is that, among Fire Emblem fans, the general consensus seems to be that more people actually like Lucina, as opposed to Chrom (who most people don't dislike, but rather, are more ambivalent toward; more people are likely to have like a 'yeah okay' reaction to Chrom as opposed to a reaction of actual excitement to Lucina... just based on what I've heard anyway). As I said, I don't think it means Lucina necessarily is GOING to be in instead of Chrom or that Chrom would replace Ike, but they're possible outcomes to consider with credible logic behind them.

And I've already talked about why Robin/Avatar/the Tactician is not such a good option from a game design standpoint due to various other complications. I'd be FINE with it if it DID happen, but I don't think it's going to. Has nothing to do with how I'd feel about playing him/her, just with my opinion on the character's chances.

I actually think you could argue that the Avatar is good for game design. They have so many options for moves and interpretations. Plus with them we could get female representation for FE and another non-blue haired character, with a more unique look. And you're best argument against it has basically been that "it's complicated." They're chances may not be quite as good as Chrom or Lucina, but they're still pretty high.

But I do agree that Ike and Lucina seem a better duo than Ike and Chrom.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

yeah i guess the avatar could be good for game design, if they wanted the game to ship out in 2020.

with all the damn customization features, voice, and class shit they'd have to add with that alone, and then throw in a second gender which doubles all the work, it'd take a stupidly long time for the game to get released, which just isn't worth it with nintendo's current financial situation.

[Anacybele]

Er, Chrom and Lucina have the exact same fighting style. The only difference between them would be weight, as you said. Chrom seems like a middleweight guy to me, so he'd be between Marth, who's a lightweight, and Ike, who's a heavyweight, imo. Lucina would just be another lightweight.

I also agree with Kyea about the Avatar possibly giving female representation and a non-blue haired character.

I apologize about the Lucina looking like Marth thing, I didn't know you brought it up a bunch of times. >_<

[Florete]

yeah i guess the avatar could be good for game design, if they wanted the game to ship out in 2020.

with all the damn customization features, voice, and class shit they'd have to add with that alone, and then throw in a second gender which doubles all the work, it'd take a stupidly long time for the game to get released, which just isn't worth it with nintendo's current financial situation.

Or they (and you) could use a little common sense.

Like with Villager, they'd just use a default appearance and one voice. Hopefully they'd have both genders equally available (especially since Awakening's advertisement is very careful on not "canonizing" anything), but even then it would be about as much work as the Wii Fit Trainers.

Class shit wtf do you think they'd do put second seals in and allow Robin to class change mid battle?

[Anacybele]

What RFoF said. And even then, a few choices of hair color and style wouldn't hurt.

[Jave]

I don't think Avatar/Robin would require that much customization. Include two models (Male and Female), and the robes and hair would be alternate colors.

[NinjaMonkey]

Why is everyone assuming that FE is going to get three characters? Even with Awakening's success, FE is still a fairly niche franchise with a fairly small fanbase. Therefore, realistically speaking, I'd say we'd get two playable characters at maximum.

Seeing as Marth is a shoe-in (being the series' poster boy, and all), it's up in the air who the other character is.

Edited May 2, 2014 by NinjaMonkey

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

my post about the avatar was directed towards the guy who suggested that it should be fully customize able.

which apparently every else agrees that its a stupid idea

[BANRYU]

Er, Chrom and Lucina have the exact same fighting style. The only difference between them would be weight, as you said. Chrom seems like a middleweight guy to me, so he'd be between Marth, who's a lightweight, and Ike, who's a heavyweight, imo. Lucina would just be another lightweight.

I apologize about the Lucina looking like Marth thing, I didn't know you brought it up a bunch of times. >_<

Except, they kinda don't? Lucina has a completely different set of attack animations from Chrom.

I won't presume to go into detail beyond very loose playstyles, but I definitely think they can each be significantly unique in their own right. Also Marth isn't that much of a lightweight; he may not be super hard-hitting, but he's definitely balanced and middle-of-the-road weight-wise.

It's fine, I just thought I had brought it up enough times. ~__~ Yeah I do realize the similarity thing is a factor, yes. Do I think Lucina is much more likely than Chrom? No not really, the way I see it their chances are probably about equal.

Like with Villager, they'd just use a default appearance and one voice. Hopefully they'd have both genders equally available (especially since Awakening's advertisement is very careful on not "canonizing" anything), but even then it would be about as much work as the Wii Fit Trainers.

I have to ask, wouldn't including ANY incarnation of the avatar run the risk of 'canonizing' his/her appearance? :0

There's that, and the fact that Smash Bros is a series about iconic Nintendo characters-- why would they ever put a self-insert character in a game like that (unless it's a Mii)? It just doesn't make any sense.

Why is everyone assuming that FE is going to get three characters? Even with Awakening's success, FE is still a fairly niche franchise with a fairly small fanbase. Therefore, realistically speaking, I'd say we'd get two playable characters at maximum.

Seeing as Marth is a shoe-in (being the series' poster boy, and all), it's up in the air who the other character is.

Speaking for myself it was mainly for the sake of discussion, like IF FE gets three characters; obviously we can't know for sure.

I guess it's mainly based on the fact that 1) Marth is already in, 2) Ike is a very popular character (not to mention with a distinct fighting style), and 3) the Ferox Arena practically guarantees a character from Awakening to be in. Basically we have two probable conclusions to draw: A) Ike will be cut to make room on the roster for Awakening's rep (not the optimal solution since a lot of people really like Ike), or B) make whoever replaces him sort of a successor to Ike's playstyle (most likely Chrom in this instance).

I agree that FE is still pretty niche, but I think there's cause to believe that getting 3 chars is a possibility.

Edited May 3, 2014 by BANRYU

[Anacybele]

Um, look at the cutscene where Chrom fights against Masked Marth who we all know is Lucina. They use the exact same attacks against each other. And Lucina explicitly states that Chrom trained her. They definitely have the same fighting style.