Resistance VI: Avalon (Assassination - Resistance 3-1 Spies)

[riariadne]

I don't think you and Refa on the same team is even worth considering at this point because of Frosty's support of the previous mission, especially if I'm on the team too (but I'm going to be).

Also, it's worth noting that Frosty has full control over Mission 2.5 should we get there. I don't think we should.

[Eurykins]

And here I thought I'd be wall-post free in this game, lol...

++ = Good vibes

-- = Bad vibes

?? = Uncertain vibes

I don't get why there's some talk about Mission 1. That's the mission that's always good for the resistance, so lol. Eury if you're so worried about spies being on Mission 1 and succeeding, we can always just exclude the Mission 1 Team for the 3 man missions, figure out who's resistance, then go for Mission 4(we can go with the risk of having one Spy)

I'm more interested in who people want to try for Mission 2 though. Dunno, something to talk about and I'm bored.

--

"Always good for the resistance"? I don't think I would've said that, even if I had no objections to the first proposal handed out. o.o (There was just no means/reasons to argue against sending Kay/Kop on said mission.)

So the leader doesn't have to go on the mission? Interesting...I can't see why the leader would ever opt out though. I mean presumably FHPOV he'd be town, so why?

Mission 2 is 3 people, right? If we're not including the people from Mission 1, then the choices will be between Eurykins, you, me, FFM, and Reintime; whoever's the leader can pick 3 of them. Not sure about the Mission 1 thing TBH, it makes sense if 1/2 of the members are scum, but it's not really helpful if they're both town. Well, if the mission gets sabotaged then I can see not including either, but if it's a success then I just don't know. This game is hard.

??

Was the bolded purely stated early on in lieu of more discussion to start up the thread, or a side observation made for a different reason?

Well if you know you're resistance and you want to find out who else may be resistance or spy, proposing a team other than yourself is a good idea.

Likewise if you were spy you could propose a team consisting of one of your spy buddies and they'd just sab it. Its hard to discern who proposes with what intention, unfortunately.

--

I'm not sure I follow this logic. If you're resistance and you're the leader of the team, you have at least one guaranteed "Succeed/pass" vote on the mission by including yourself. I'd be more wary of people not wanting to send themselves, because resistance members have no reason to not want to go out on a mission themselves.

Honestly Wen should've sent two people other than himself to see reactions. I would've done it :3

??

Idk how I feel about this statement.

What the fuck, I did not expect a failed mission.

Eury, I suggest that you don't take either of Wen or Kay for the 3 man one right now.

++

Seems like a fairly legitimate response to the results, and reasonable advice.

You never answered my question. ;/

Anyways, it's your tone that bothers me. Like why would spies making a dumb play warrant a :/ (oh god, I'm scumhunting based on emoticons; I have succeeded you, Grassbridger)? You seem a little disappointed...

Kopfjager isn't suspicious for volunteering himself, he'd do that as either alignment.

--

Feeling that this was slightly nitpicky.

I feel like Rein's most likely to be resistance out of the people who have been proposed on to mission's so far- there's no reason to veto a proposal you're on, especially if you're a spy, when you can just lurk, get a yes, and sab it.

One scum and One res on the two man mission was more likely, meaning FFM agreeing to your proposal makes no sesne FHPOV if he was resistance, considering that it would GUARANTEE a spy in your proposal, Eury. There's literally no reason to assume that two scum were in Mission 1, so if he's actually resistance, he's throwing down his vote like an idiot.

Yeah sure everyone hasn't voted yet but there's literally no reason to post in-thread agreeing to that proposal.

++

(Think I stated this earlier, but it would've seen weird if he'd suddenly went from objecting the proposals to accepting them instantaneously, especially with how the first mission failed results happened. So though the spy logic makes sense, I can still see him possibly doing it as scum in order to keep up the face he's had since the beginning in his approach to the proposals.)

Italicized: Decent train of thought, imo.

Your reasoning is dumb because FFM could have said that regardless of whether the mission had all resistance or not; it only holds water if this mission does in fact fail. Let's say that the mission does fail, what then? Scum would be shooting themselves in the foot because the entire scumteam would be between me, Eurykins, Kopfjager, Kay, and FFM (Rein could technically be scum by this reasoning, but I don't think scum would've drawn suspicion on what could be another very easy sabatoge); one confirmed town and the closest thing to that is not going to do the scum team any good, wouldn't you say?

--

Something sounds weird wrt the bolded section. In addition:

According to the italicized (had the situation played out as such and the second mission failed): Scum team would be within: Kay, Kop, myself, FFM, you (Refa), and Rein (since he too would be participating and, though I find his posts good, he's an experienced player; you cannot exclude the possibility of it just being a solid facade)? For one, that's the majority of the game right there, and even if you had 1-2 mostly cleared people, what of the rest? Until mission 4, all you need is one vote to sabotage, and so the rest of the people are just variables? (That, and three of which = scum). I'm not sure that's entirely a bad situation for scum, especially if they end up at 2:0 as a result and only have one mission left to sabotage. ;/ (And even if Resistance did pull out 3 successful missions thereafter, there's still the assassination to be concerned with.)

Ofc there are benefits

His spy buddy is on the team and can sab, what else lol.

And FFM isn't experienced enough for games like Mafia and Resistance to know what moves are good and what aren't. I can expect a dumb spy play.

??

Though I can see/understand the logic, the way it sounds seems a bit harsh. That, and wouldn't the buddies be able to aid FFM in order to avoid doing "dumb spy plays"? (Or at least minimize the chances of it happening?)

Bluedoom: 2 ++, 2 --, 2 ??

Refa: 2 --, 1 ??

Tl;DR: I feel that Marth's brought more positive feedback/contributions to the game thus far, but is far from cleared FMPoV. Refa's been a bit less in the contribution front, and some of his posts were a bit strange/nitpicky at times. So between those two, (based on looking through the above posts), I'd be leaning Marth.

However, with the fact that I wouldn't trust sending FFM on a mission with us (due to the vibes I'm seeing from his posts):

As for me, I would propose a team of Eurykins/Reinfleche/Kay.

Mainly because they haven't really done anything that would paint them as scummy.

I mean Eury/Blue/Kay

1. Tossing Kay in (as said before) kinda bothers me. Including her or Kop into a mission at this point is asking to end badly, imo.

2. The jump from Rein to Blue seems weird (and weirded me out even more since FFM just got done saying that Rein's been going off on him being scummy).

3. If FFM is scum, this either implies that Kay is the scum between Kop/Kay (in the case that Blue is town), or Blue's the scum (and there's a slim possibility of Kay not being scum if Blue is there to secure the sabotage, but the possibility of both of them being scum is there).

[This is what's partially affecting my preferences in terms of Marth > Refa. I felt that my proposal had the possibility of being okay (gut feelings), and FFM's notion of throwing Blue into it (with noting FFM as being a bit scummy atm) is making me slightly wary of the possibility of him being a possible scumbuddy. On the individual posting/contribution level, though, I think that Marth has Refa beat.]

[Kay]

I wouldn't say it's the worst suggestion. It's a bit more than 50/50 odds that one of me/Wen are scum, that's not much worse than out of the other 5 players. FFM in general just looks like he has some different ideas. I don't see where all the suspicion is coming from.

[Kay]

My preferred team would be Eury, FFM, and Marth, assuming I can't count myself. Will elaborate more on reads tomorrow when I won't be on the 3DS anymore.

[Bluedoom]

well

I know that Rein and I will be in my proposal

So

Eury/ Refa should tell me why I should take them in over the other lol. (most certainly not taking FFM)

[Refa]

Also Refa I wasn't just asking who you prefer out of you/Eury, I want to hear if anyone has serious objections to me and Marth on the team as well. Marth has this proposal, so he'll probably be on it anyway and I would think me too at this point, but it's still worth discussing.

Oh, right. No objections to you, as for Marth I guess I'm fine with him. As far as reads are concerned, he's about on the same level as Eurykins (I'd put him as less townie), but in all honesty considering how pretty much everyone is suspicious of FFM, Kopfjager/Kay are off of the table, and only one of Eurykins/Me are going on the next mission, he's bound to be included sooner or later anyways.

Confirmed scumslip that Frosty & Kay are scumbuddies?

Scumslips are overrated. Also while Frosty is likely scum, he is not confirmed scum.

Tl;DR: I feel that Marth's brought more positive feedback/contributions to the game thus far, but is far from cleared FMPoV. Refa's been a bit less in the contribution front, and some of his posts were a bit strange/nitpicky at times. So between those two, (based on looking through the above posts), I'd be leaning Marth.

However, with the fact that I wouldn't trust sending FFM on a mission with us (due to the vibes I'm seeing from his posts):

1. Tossing Kay in (as said before) kinda bothers me. Including her or Kop into a mission at this point is asking to end badly, imo.

2. The jump from Rein to Blue seems weird (and weirded me out even more since FFM just got done saying that Rein's been going off on him being scummy).

3. If FFM is scum, this either implies that Kay is the scum between Kop/Kay (in the case that Blue is town), or Blue's the scum (and there's a slim possibility of Kay not being scum if Blue is there to secure the sabotage, but the possibility of both of them being scum is there).

[This is what's partially affecting my preferences in terms of Marth > Refa. I felt that my proposal had the possibility of being okay (gut feelings), and FFM's notion of throwing Blue into it (with noting FFM as being a bit scummy atm) is making me slightly wary of the possibility of him being a possible scumbuddy. On the individual posting/contribution level, though, I think that Marth has Refa beat.]

Honestly I feel like Marth has contributed less original content, even if it is better presented. Like I was suspicious of FFM before it was cool. >:)

1. I think it's a good point you say this, because it basically means we cannot trust his list at all. Therefore, it shouldn't affect your judgement.

2. Makes me feel better about Bluedoom because it feels like FFM couldn't come up with a case on Rein before moving on to him.

3. No, because noone would seriously put Kay on any missions. Not saying Kay can't be scum, but I don't think this implicates her in any way.

well

I know that Rein and I will be in my proposal

So

Eury/ Refa should tell me why I should take them in over the other lol. (most certainly not taking FFM)

No, I disagree. You should ask other people why you should take us IMO. Not only will it help your reads on the depending on the mission outcome, but really...What are we going to say? "Yeah, I saw my Role PM, I'm definitely Resistance."

You should take me because I saw my Role PM, I'm definitely Resistance. :3

[Refa]

*reads on them

[Bluedoom]

Well so far we have Rein and Kay wanting Eury on the proposal, and Eury wanting herself in also makes sense. FFM wants Eury on the team too because ??? I don't even understand his play but its continuing to be bad. Throwing Kay in makes sense because now there's a chance he's picking the other 3 res members FHPOV if he's res but that's still unexpected and one has to wonder why he didn't say anything earlier.

I feel Rein is resistance because if he was spy he'd just keep voting no, saying he's doing so for information, and not even bother about this game. That and catching the FFM slip was also pro-resistance IMO. Like obviously we can't confirm whether he's spy or not but his play is more likely to be that of a spy's than Dumb! Resistance.

Votes for Eury against Refa are 3:1, I'm trying to re-read myself to figure out who's the better choice, but I dunno what Wen's opinion on the matter is atm.

[riariadne]

I feel Rein is resistance because if he was spy he'd just keep voting no, saying he's doing so for information, and not even bother about this game.

Well, it works...

Interested in seeing Kay's explanations. Well, I'm actually interested in arguing with them. Details.

[Eurykins]

Honestly I feel like Marth has contributed less original content, even if it is better presented. Like I was suspicious of FFM before it was cool. >:)

1. I think it's a good point you say this, because it basically means we cannot trust his list at all. Therefore, it shouldn't affect your judgement.

2. Makes me feel better about Bluedoom because it feels like FFM couldn't come up with a case on Rein before moving on to him.

3. No, because noone would seriously put Kay on any missions. Not saying Kay can't be scum, but I don't think this implicates her in any way.

Lol. xD

1. Well, it affects my judgement/thought process in the sense of "So why is X and Y (in this case, Bluedoom/Reinfleche (though the latter appeared to be a typo/mistake) and Kay) being listed down from FFM's PoV?" With a lack of trust in someone's post/content comes the natural doubt/next train of thought of figuring out why they said what they did.

2. FFM already typed out his notions wrt Rein, though? (Which is why he didn't have him on his list in the secondary post). He also saw you scummy in some manner, so I can see you also not appearing on his list. This (excluding myself and Kay, given that we're on his list) would leave Kop and Marth as the choices left. Logically speaking, it'd look bad to put both Kop/Kay back on the same mission because we saw what happened in the first failed one. So in that sense, there is no real alternative but to put Marth on said list (without having a list that a lot of people [moreso than already] would have issues with), so I don't think the swap from Rein to Marth had much to do with a lesser case on Rein.

3. Those were my concerns as to why FFM (scum or not) would want to volunteer Kay for the mission. If FFM is scum, there's reasons as to why the choices/people listed are there. So in that case, that's where I feel that it does have some implications of sorts (what they are, I couldn't say for sure), whether it's because he seems them as being a Resistance member or for scum intent.

Eury/ Refa should tell me why I should take them in over the other lol. (most certainly not taking FFM)

Past few games, Refa's been all sorts of scummy. Plus I'm cooler than he is- should obviously take me over him. :D

[Bluedoom]

Refa since you haven't cleared up your actual stance on FFM

Do you think he's a spy and if you think so why do you think he's doing certain actions the way they are?

[Refa]

Yes? Seriously, I don't get why people say I don't think FFM is a spy. Everything I've said has come with the assumption that he's a spy.

I think he's WIFOMing at this point because everyone suspects him. Like his recent team selection...I'm not sure if there's a scumbuddy there or not and it's just like arghhhhhhhhhhh...makes me mad.

[Refa]

2. FFM already typed out his notions wrt Rein, though? (Which is why he didn't have him on his list in the secondary post). He also saw you scummy in some manner, so I can see you also not appearing on his list. This (excluding myself and Kay, given that we're on his list) would leave Kop and Marth as the choices left. Logically speaking, it'd look bad to put both Kop/Kay back on the same mission because we saw what happened in the first failed one. So in that sense, there is no real alternative but to put Marth on said list (without having a list that a lot of people [moreso than already] would have issues with), so I don't think the swap from Rein to Marth had much to do with a lesser case on Rein.

He didn't type out his reasons for dropping Rein. Just because there is an admittedly valid reason for doing so, doesn't mean that went through his head (and if it did, I would question why he didn't post it). It's like in a traditional Mafia game where I drop a scumread without explaining why. Yes, I could have a good reason for it, but you shouldn't assume that.

Eurykins, do you think FFM is scum?

[Wen Yang]

I wouldn't say it's the worst suggestion. It's a bit more than 50/50 odds that one of me/Wen are scum, that's not much worse than out of the other 5 players. FFM in general just looks like he has some different ideas. I don't see where all the suspicion is coming from.

More like that it's 100% chance that either you or me is scum, Kay, or possibly even both of us assuming if I were scum and were pulling some gambit out of my ass.

Also Bluedoom, I have mentioned earlier that you are someone I'm getting scumvibes from, and that I would veto any proposal including you (and Kay, and frosty) by default.

[Wen Yang]

Btw, in case my last post was unclear, at this point I think Bluedoom/Kay/Frosty is the scumteam. Of course, I could be wrong, but that's my reads atm.

[Bluedoom]

Eh, I dunno why you're getting scumvibes from me but I honestly can't help that. I've been pro-resistance even if people feel I'm sheeping.

Can't really help it if some of you think I'm a spy because of a) Sheeping Rein(looking at you Refa) and b) FFM doing something wrt me(looking at you Eury) because my actions haven't had any spy intent behind them.

*ahem* I think I'll got with ##Proposal: Rein and Eury, will you Marry Me?

Rein, Bluedoom and Eurykins for Mission 2.2

[Refa]

Anyone can sheep everyone's favorite town read. Even spies. Anyways, vetoing this mission (thoughts on alignments below)

Resistance

Refa

Reinfleche

Spy

Kopfjager/Kay

Bluedoom/Eurykins

FFM

Obvious reads are obvious, but I'd like to clarify regarding Kopfjager/Kay and Bluedoom/Eurykins. Yes, both of the reads can be spies (e.g. Kopfjager and Kay are both spies), but that strikes me as less likely overall; also it's unlikely that Bluedoom and Eurykins are both spies due to him vetoing her proposal. As far as individuals go, I prefer Kay to Kopfjager and Eurykins to Bluedoom.

[Bluedoom]

Well I'm sorry Refa but I'm not the one that thought of the idea to ask the Percival to claim. That's a bad idea bro and worse than whatever Eury has done(which is mostly paranoia and part of her town play.)

[Kay]

re: Wen Yang's post, no, I mean individually. It's unlikely that we're both spies, because sabotaging Mission 1 wouldn't be worth it then. It can be pretty safely assumed, I would think, that one of us is a spy and the other is Resistance. So, even discounting scumhunting, there's a 50/50 chance in that case of picking the right one.

[Refa]

Well I'm sorry Refa but I'm not the one that thought of the idea to ask the Percival to claim. That's a bad idea bro and worse than whatever Eury has done(which is mostly paranoia and part of her town play.)

I didn't ask Percival to claim, I asked people what they thought of the idea. There's a difference. Also at the time you didn't proclaim that it was scummy or whatever, so why do you bring it up now?

Additionally your argument is dumb because obviously I'm never going to agree with you. Are you trying to convince me that I'm a spy?

[Eurykins]

##Proposal: Rein and Eury, will you Marry Me?

OhmygoshItoteswould, Marthbby. ;D

[Shinori]

NOT IN THE GAME.

Bluedoom is encroaching on my territory.

NOT IN THE GAME.

[Eurykins]

~Realtalk shizz:

He didn't type out his reasons for dropping Rein. Just because there is an admittedly valid reason for doing so, doesn't mean that went through his head (and if it did, I would question why he didn't post it). It's like in a traditional Mafia game where I drop a scumread without explaining why. Yes, I could have a good reason for it, but you shouldn't assume that.

Eurykins, do you think FFM is scum?

Well, from this post from FFM:

Rein seems a little too insistent that I'm scum. Seriously, most of his posts ramble on about how scummy I am and not much else.

From this comment (that was made right before his preferences for the mission were stated), I inferred that FFM found Rein suspicious/plausibly scummy due to the tunneling on himself and pushing the read so hard.

So in that aspect, it seems like common sense/logic of "If I think X is scummy/doing something scummy, then I probably wouldn't want them on a mission for risk of sabotage." (And thus I saw why FFM would've knocked Rein out of his list.)

Do I think FFM is scum? I've found a lot of his posts a bit strange- some of which came off a bit scummy to me. So, though I wouldn't be confident enough to assert 100% that FFM's scum (in my thoughts/case alone), I would not be confident in sending FFM on missions. TL;DR: Null, leaning scummy.

Eh, I dunno why you're getting scumvibes from me but I honestly can't help that. I've been pro-resistance even if people feel I'm sheeping.

Can't really help it if some of you think I'm a spy because of a) Sheeping Rein(looking at you Refa) and b) FFM doing something wrt me(looking at you Eury) because my actions haven't had any spy intent behind them.

*ahem* I think I'll got with ##Proposal: Rein and Eury, will you Marry Me?

Rein, Bluedoom and Eurykins for Mission 2.2

I put the notion of possibility, due to FFM (whom I'm not trusting too much atm) pulling you up as a possibility (but in the later post explained why you were logically probably the only person FFM could safely list as the third member/suggestion without seeming too weird), but I wouldn't say that you've seemed scummy to me (from my own PoV).

And well, you know that proposal- brownie points for that. <3 Ohwait, Shinori invaded the thread. Damn.

Anyone can sheep everyone's favorite town read. Even spies. Anyways, vetoing this mission (thoughts on alignments below)

Resistance

Refa

Reinfleche

Spy

Kopfjager/Kay

Bluedoom/Eurykins

FFM

Obvious reads are obvious, but I'd like to clarify regarding Kopfjager/Kay and Bluedoom/Eurykins. Yes, both of the reads can be spies (e.g. Kopfjager and Kay are both spies), but that strikes me as less likely overall; also it's unlikely that Bluedoom and Eurykins are both spies due to him vetoing her proposal. As far as individuals go, I prefer Kay to Kopfjager and Eurykins to Bluedoom.

Well, pretty much everyone had agreed to veto the proposal, I thought? (I know I derped out and forgot to edit/re-send in the stuff via PMs) So I'm not sure if that logic in itself would warrant one or the other cleared (from the PoV of everyone but myself and Marth).

Also, why is Kop/Kay = unlikely to be double scum? Scum have the ability to pass missions as well, so the possibility (Scum/Scum or Town/Scum) is still up for debate, imo.

re: Wen Yang's post, no, I mean individually. It's unlikely that we're both spies, because sabotaging Mission 1 wouldn't be worth it then. It can be pretty safely assumed, I would think, that one of us is a spy and the other is Resistance. So, even discounting scumhunting, there's a 50/50 chance in that case of picking the right one.

Something about the bolded part kinda bothers me. Sure the notion may be true, but the fact that "Oh, one of us could be good and the other bad" = exactly what scum would want us to think, so grabbing either = scum pick regardless. (Instead of 50% chance of hitting town/scum).

[MRDRHAWK]

-IO but not playing-

shut up Shinori.

-IO but not playing-

[Bluedoom]

I didn't ask Percival to claim, I asked people what they thought of the idea. There's a difference. Also at the time you didn't proclaim that it was scummy or whatever, so why do you bring it up now?

Additionally your argument is dumb because obviously I'm never going to agree with you. Are you trying to convince me that I'm a spy?

Yeah but thinking claiming is a good idea in a game where it obviously has repercussions is dumb and scummy. That's like fishing. Didn't say it any earlier because I didn't see any need to? Like it wouldn't be of any use if you or I started an argument of whether what you did was scummy since the others had their focus ELSEWHERE at that point of time.

Well ofc you're never going to agree with me nor I with you, but you did ask for reasons why I chose Eury over you, yes?