British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[CT075]

and by "not surprised" i mean "baldrick's case looks good"

[Makaze]

Someone else (was it prims? idr) already brought up that the scum play there would have been to hardpush psych as much as possible (or tie it up last second by unvoting). WRT "refusal to vote scum twice", I'll admit that I let Paperblade slip and that sucked. As for psych, my thoughts were "there's no way an entire scumteam could be that stupid", hence "I don't think psych is scum".

Feeling much better because of this + aforementioned buddy motives.

Don't self-meta please, it gets us nowhere

I'm not sure how else to defend against ITP suspicions. Nothing I can do is really a tell for that so I'm having to counteract guts here.

I guess I have to ride out for now.

Where is that sub for Kay?

Eurykins is making a strange play by tunneling me two days in a row and seems to be ignoring actual tells from scum in favor of gut reads on ITPs. Their posts have not made me feel any better and I doubt they will. My biggest problem with Eury's attitude is that getting rid of an ITP is something both mafia and town want to do and yet there can be no evidence of an ITP from posts alone (unless the ITP is extremely stupid and somehow soft or hard claims). Their behavior is not inherently pro-town and has not been for this whole game. Scummy until proven otherwise.

##Vote: Eurykins

[Prims]

the reason I felt like you were the most likely ITP early is because you're scumhunting like a townie but are very very touchy when people call you out and/or attack you

[Makaze]

Want to say more but that would be self-meta. I didn't have nearly as much trouble getting into the swing in Training Mafia because of who I was playing with.

Managed to mislynch every time in that game, though. Hard to tell if I've gotten better or worse.

I think I'll head to bed. Be back tomorrow.

[Eurykins]

the reason I felt like you were the most likely ITP early is because you're scumhunting like a townie but are very very touchy when people call you out and/or attack you

Not sure if this is directed at me or Makaze.

Anyways, off to sleep for the night.

PS. If people randomly hammer me, okay. But also, (screw subtle crumbs n' shit) my role can be proven at almost any interval/timing, but is not something I care to honestly do for reasons. Food for thought.

[Eurykins]

EDIT: BLARGH, pet peeve kicking into gear.

Eurykins is making a strange play by tunneling me two days in a row and seems to be ignoring actual tells from scum in favor of gut reads on ITPs. Their posts have not made me feel any better and I doubt they will. My biggest problem with Eury's attitude is that getting rid of an ITP is something both mafia and town want to do and yet there can be no evidence of an ITP from posts alone (unless the ITP is extremely stupid and somehow soft or hard claims). Their behavior is not inherently pro-town and has not been for this whole game. Scummy until proven otherwise.

##Vote: Eurykins

1. Bolded is, once again, a lie/misrep. See Psych.

2. Theoretically, at this point, it is in Mafia's/ITP's favor to actually defend/keep the other alive, in lieu of yielding more NKs. Consider this as well: as the last remaining scum, what's to gain by obviously gunning after an ITP read and, as a result, garnering suspect from it? Doesn't seem like smart/solid logic I'd trust.

3. Underlined: Whoaaa thar. Excuse me? My points/cases on you, Psych, and others (including Paperblade) were completely accurate and otherwise had decent warrant that others (including townies like Boron) agreed with/supported. Unless you're assuming they were supporting something as seen "anti-town" or otherwise "bad gameplay", this is also a load of bullshit.

4. Nice of you to echo my sentiment that I currently hold of you, Makaze. (and my exact line no less)

Now I is off to sleep. Finally.

[Eurykins]

*Also, on the ITP notion: At this point, pretty much everyone (even scum) probably knows/feels that Makaze = ITP/SK. Why else would he still be alive, honestly? (And the fact that no Mafia scum has been shot as well = kinda easy to see that the scum parties, to some extent, have been willing to ignore each other in lieu of working together to remove town ASAP. #logics)

[Baldrick]

@Cam: Who was I painting? If you mean Darros/Makaze hypothetical mafia!Baldrick would know that was pretty obviously going to backfire.

@Eury

1.
Looking at this post
No 1 is a point for him being mafia, since ITP don't know Paper was scum and wouldn't be getting towncred from it.
I don’t get why No. 3 is an ITP tell. They'd be more worried about dying since if they die, they lose, whereas mafia can still win if the last buddy survives.
No. 7. Makaze is mafia-hunting, therefore he is ITP. This is fair enough, but pretty obvious, so it would be invalid if you think the ITP would be more subtle.
The rest are general scumtells.

2. You unvoted him pretty quickly, and focussed on Makaze. You didn't do anything to give the case real momentum like Makaze did. Followed by not being on for more than 24 hours and missing the phase end. then claiming to be the author of the wagon after the flip is scummy.

3. You said I was sheeping, and unless that was just filler, the implication was "therefore my case is without merit." But it's not, because I have talked about most of the playerlist (pretty much everyone except Kay) and why I think they are not mafia. So it's an surface-level, unfounded accusation

4. If FFM your only mafia read? What about how Paper/Psych interacted with others? Do you disagree with any of my not-mafia reads?

PEDIT: About Mafia's wanting to keep ITP alive... right now, it's 8/1/1. If ITP is lynched today, tomorrow it is 7/1 and mafia need 3 MLs to win. If there is a ML today and no crossfire, it's 5/1/1 tomorrow. With ITP lynch, it's 4/1 and mafia still need two more ML. If there are 2 MLs in a row, it's 2/1/1 and an ITP lynch does mean mafia win, BUT town know that and so will force a NL, which leads to an awkward Prisoner's Dilemma situation for the anti-town. So they save a ML by keepign the SK alive, but it makes for a lot of headaches.

TL;DR ITP-hunting does not make you townie IMO.

[Shin]

A small fella passes you a copy of the Star, highlighting the top stories of the day.

"Simon Cowell buys Hull for new theme park"

"Frankie Boyle makes joke that doesn't offend anyone"

"UKIP propose tax on Chinese Take-aways"

After rummaging through some rather naughty pictures and adverts of stuff you probably won't ever buy, you come to the votals.

Eury (3): Prims, Baldrick, Makaze

Makaze (2): FFM, Eury

Not voting: Dem chumps

Big Ben says that there are 60 hours remaining! With 10 alive, it takes 4 to lynch and 6 to hammer! Phase ends on 20/6 23:00GMT+0.

I am still looking for a sub for Kay.

[Eurykins]

@Cam: Who was I painting? If you mean Darros/Makaze hypothetical mafia!Baldrick would know that was pretty obviously going to backfire.

@Eury

1.

Looking at this post

No 1 is a point for him being mafia, since ITP don't know Paper was scum and wouldn't be getting towncred from it.

I don’t get why No. 3 is an ITP tell. They'd be more worried about dying since if they die, they lose, whereas mafia can still win if the last buddy survives.

No. 7. Makaze is mafia-hunting, therefore he is ITP. This is fair enough, but pretty obvious, so it would be invalid if you think the ITP would be more subtle.

The rest are general scumtells.

2. You unvoted him pretty quickly, and focussed on Makaze. You didn't do anything to give the case real momentum like Makaze did. Followed by not being on for more than 24 hours and missing the phase end. then claiming to be the author of the wagon after the flip is scummy.

3. You said I was sheeping, and unless that was just filler, the implication was "therefore my case is without merit." But it's not, because I have talked about most of the playerlist (pretty much everyone except Kay) and why I think they are not mafia. So it's an surface-level, unfounded accusation

4. If FFM your only mafia read? What about how Paper/Psych interacted with others? Do you disagree with any of my not-mafia reads?

PEDIT: About Mafia's wanting to keep ITP alive... right now, it's 8/1/1. If ITP is lynched today, tomorrow it is 7/1 and mafia need 3 MLs to win. If there is a ML today and no crossfire, it's 5/1/1 tomorrow. With ITP lynch, it's 4/1 and mafia still need two more ML. If there are 2 MLs in a row, it's 2/1/1 and an ITP lynch does mean mafia win, BUT town know that and so will force a NL, which leads to an awkward Prisoner's Dilemma situation for the anti-town. So they save a ML by keepign the SK alive, but it makes for a lot of headaches.

TL;DR ITP-hunting does not make you townie IMO.

1. Paperblade and Psych were both ridiculously easy scum wagons, and anyone who honestly says otherwise is kinda blind or wasn't paying attention to their gameplay as a whole. They both executed things extremely poorly, so going after either wagon isn't a tell in itself (doesn't require a fellow scumbuddy bussing a teammate to jump onto said wagon).

I also never said that ALL ITPs would be subtle- I stated before that (had I rolled it myself), then yeah, I'd be more subtle. Keep in mind that this is Makaze's first game without a mentor though- I don't expect him to play perfectly, and thus the slips that he's made thus far make sense coming from him.

2. Because Psych was relatively inactive at the time that I voted for Makaze. He (Makaze) kept making more and more posts that sounded bad- I'd rather nail more active than inactive scum variants of any sort. Secondly, I'm sorry my IRL father (cooking for him, sorting out the plans for Father's day, etc.) took precedence over a Mafia game- sue me for having some IRL thoughts/priorities. Thirdly, it's kinda hard NOT to see the fact that I aided in kicking the ball rolling down at the start of D2 on Psych; me claiming it isn't a scumtell at all when, you know, the posts are right there to see and realize. Kinda weird that "stating a fact" = scumtell.

3. Stating that someone's sheeping (especially when I'm saying, "Dat sheeping vote") just means you're sheeping someone's case/vote. Which... again, was the truth? You even said so yourself- it was based on Prim's case/notions, not yours. Just because "you went through 'most' of the playerlist" doesn't mean you ended up pulling up said case directly onto me and are gunning at me with YOUR case. [i also never said that you were SCUMMY or not for sheeping- both town and scum can sheep cases and remain viable for it. Granted, in response to it, you're seeming pretty damn nitpicky/defensive, so that's pinging me slightly amongst other things.] I don't see why you're prickling at a side comment that wasn't even taking a potshot or whatever the hell it was you called it earlier.

4. Paper hardly did shit, honestly. He has little to almost no interactions wrt the rest of the living players, so I got tired of moving through his empty ISO. Also, I already pulled up who I thought were possible remaining scum wrt interactions in prior posts, and I really don't feel like repeating myself, so please take the time to read my ISO before making notions like that (no, FFM wasn't the ONLY option/possibility to be the last remaining Mafia scum).

TL;DR Shizz: That's a notion/opinion that you're free to have; whether it's true or not is up in the air. I may not be playing the game to a solid/obvious "pro-townie" mentality (from your PoV), but in retrospect, it's probably the reason why I haven't been shot yet. (Decent mislynch target.) I figured that at least Makaze wouldn't shoot me (given how much I've gunned for him), but it seems the remaining Mafia scum's also attempting to play off of that aspect. (Kinda given after the D2 announcement message that was aimed at my posting as a whole, go figure.)

[Prims]

Keep in mind that this is Makaze's first game without a mentor though- I don't expect him to play perfectly, and thus the slips that he's made thus far make sense coming from him.

so basically all the differences from his training play youve cited are within reason for him as town, cool. who is mafia

[CT075]

@Cam: Who was I painting? If you mean Darros/Makaze hypothetical mafia!Baldrick would know that was pretty obviously going to backfire.

mostly makaze and darros, yeah, my thought was "well psych already tried the 'there's no way anyone could be that stupid' gambit once" which is pretty weak in hindsight

[CT075]

Eurykins is making a strange play by tunneling me two days in a row and seems to be ignoring actual tells from scum in favor of gut reads on ITPs

This is the kind of claim you need to back up with concrete quotes IMO

Offhand I'm disagreeing with a lot of the Eury case (esp since they all seem to focus on a single post); I will come back to reread Eury after I fix hax that people have been asking for

[Psych]

mostly makaze and darros, yeah, my thought was "well psych already tried the 'there's no way anyone could be that stupid' gambit once" which is pretty weak in hindsight

thank you for giving a name for it

[Darros]

[spoiler=Darros]obvscum moving on
in reality self spec is stupid so ill leave this guy to y'all

[spoiler=Prims]Prims basically started the Paperblade wagon and crippling buddies D1 would be the dumbest thing imaginable. Prims isn't dumb, so I doubt he's scum. That and he's been working hard to scumhunt today and I just feel like he's definitely town.

well if you're town you would want to be mafia with me

however theres also this obvscum 10/10 case would lynch

[spoiler=Cam]As said last phase, I think Cam is town, and with Psych flipping scum I'm even more convinced that. Cam was Psych's only vote D2, and I don't think Psych would bus like that when they're down to 2 scum members. They got into a big slapfight which doesn't really seem like mafia/mafia interactions.

[spoiler=FFM]jfc I feel like I'm waffling like crazy on FFM but I think he could be scum again. He was super late on the Paperblade wagon on D1, and his early D2 post seemed to be anti Psych lynch yet he put no effort into pushing Cam. From there he kind of ceased existing. Might be lurking scum.

[spoiler=Kay]Like I said, I don't got shit. I need more content from Kay, but she's subbing out so I don't even know what to do here.

[spoiler=j00]Is nighttalker like ever a scum role? Ignoring that, Paperblade vote was late, just like FFM. When it comes to Psych it's a bit of a different story though. The pushing isn't /hard/ but it exists, so it makes me not really believe that it's a bus. Overall I'm leaning town on j00, but it isn't really a strong read.

[spoiler=Baldrick]Junko first. wrt Junko I think he may be town since his early reads match up with flips/my current predictions. Baldrick I'm iffy on because he focused on Cam basically all D2 while posting minimally about Psych except for defending him really. Day 3 is way better though

[spoiler=Makaze]r u the serial killer
i think u r
*eyes emoji*

i talk about makaze way too much reposting my thoughts on him at this point in time would be beating a dead horse
would lynch tomorrow if we hit scum today/10

[spoiler=Shinori]Not gonna lie Shinori doesn't seem to have much of a memorable presence this game. His D1 was basically consolidation, he said so himself, so whatever. Then yesterday he was on Psych but he mentioned there was possible bias in it because of a misrep ((misreps are scummy anyway)). I'm not realy sure what to think of Shinori. I'm hoping for more content today.

[spoiler=Eury]Eury you're fabulous but your wallposts drain me. Walrein left me with null so it's basically just you at this point. Though she seemed basically sold on Psych from the start, that's a really fucking hardbus from a buddy which I don't really think is likely. I do understand the ITP spec, like Eury said killing an ITP would bring the kills per night down from 2 to 1. It's just hard as hell to do ((even though I think I know who it is oops)) but the intention is good, I believe. Scum wouldn't be focused on killing ITP early anyway because there's a larger chance of ITP shooting town then mafia. Overall I'm pretty sure Eury is town because why would a buddy hardbus the fuck out of Psych like that and ITP hunt? It doesn't line up if you ask me.

##Vote: FFM
This is what I'm going with for now. I'm not sold on FFM being town.

Also more activity from Kay/Kay's slot, FFM, and Shinori would be cool.

FFM is good because it'd be pointless for Psych to switch like he did from his buddy to his other buddy.

I disagree. That FFM lynch was going nowhere and I think Psych knew it. It's a point in FFMs town favor but I don't think it clears him.

FFM and Darros, who makes the most sense to you as scum in light of what just happened?

In light of what. Night results or page 34/35 talking? If it's the latter I can't really answer that since so many people haven't been posting on those pages. If it's night results, I'm not sure who would want Bladescape dead over a more active target, and anyone would shoot Boron, really. She was pretty obvtown, and one of the most active players here.

[Makaze]

This is the kind of claim you need to back up with concrete quotes IMO

Offhand I'm disagreeing with a lot of the Eury case (esp since they all seem to focus on a single post); I will come back to reread Eury after I fix hax that people have been asking for

Okay...?

What a way to end N1/start D2. Damn. ;/

1. We have the numbers Boron offered us D1. Take it with a grain of salt- the ITP can probably be almost anything, and at this point, it's pretty obvious that they have killing potential (I do not recall any double-night killing abilities on scum-side ever existing, and as of right now, no town vig has claimed either deaths).

2. Something feels weird about Makaze's notion of "couldn't that be a survivor?"- possible redirect away from the possibility of NK'ing ITP?

3. For someone who had insomniac, I felt/saw little use being applied to said ability (1st post = some rather shallow reads, the 2nd post doesn't really do anything at all). I was expecting some other reads/thoughts from j00 as the night phase wore on, but none were given.

4. I don't like Psyche's notion/post starting D2. "Which sucks cause I could have proved my role too" If you're town, congrats on confirming the fact that you have a power role of some sort to the scum team(s). If you're scum, (which I personally found you to be since D1), it'd easily explain why BBM chose to target/block you, imo. (You just so happened to not have conducted the NK yourself, if you are Mafia scum.) He remains as one of the higher priorities to lynch this day phase.

##Vote: Psyche

Good post. Actual scum hunting, helped me scum hunt myself.

1. Bullshit. Utter bullshit. If you even take the effort to read my wall posts, I literally waded through the ISOs I could (given the hour or two I had to use before phase end) and plucked out the four top people I found to be scummy since D1.

2. How the hell is my Paperblade vote "because consolidation" AT ALL? He was one of the FOUR people I listed that I wanted to lynch D1, and OF THOSE FOUR, he was the most likely to be lynched. Given that I myself agreed/supported his lynch option, there is little to no truth at all to what you're saying. Period.

3. Read my ISO, Makaze, and find out from there. It's not hard, and my reads as a whole haven't changed currently as a result of the flips.

I don't like your gameplay, and it feels nothing like in Training. I'm pretty sure you're scum at this point, Makaze.

Major reversal upon being challenged. Note the confidence in my being scum.

No vote change yet.

Psyche remains near the top of my list, but at this point, Makaze's dropping more scum vibes, (and given his responses) I'm feeling he's actually the SK. And if that's the case, I wish to remove the source of the second night kills ASAP while searching for the remaining Mafia scum.

##Unvote

##Vote: Makaze

Vote changed only after believing me to be the ITP.

Note the growing confidence in my ITP-ness.

TL;DR: He's like BB in Shining Force 3; pretty damn certain he's SK/ITP, not Mafia. His actions (logically) also suit ITP moreso than Mafia scum, as well as his posting/reactions/actions as a whole. So I don't think I've ever once stated that he feels like Mafia scum (the closest I got was saying "he feels like some sort of scum to me", but heavily leaning towards SK). That is why I've never bothered labeling him as anything else, because I don't think he's Mafia scum.

Either way, he should honestly die this day phase, and unless the last remaining scum seriously scumslips and gets themselves caught, I'd be skeptical of aiming for anyone else. I'd prefer 2 people not getting shot next night phase, if at all possible, and I'm fairly confident that his lynch will remove one or the two sources.

##Vote: Makaze

Finally, today she blatantly says she is not hunting scum but is hunting ITP instead. She blatantly says she is aiming for me because she would be 'skeptical of any aiming for anyone else'.

What part of that is not exactly what I said?

On why she started aiming for Psych and joining the vote on Paper, it makes sense for her to address her scum buddies and show suspicion as scum in case they get lynched. But I don't see this tunneling a possible ITP as pro-town: as Eury herself told me when I was just happy to let my Psych vote sit and others echoed, 'having just one read/target is not pro-town'.

There's also the point that none of the stuff against me is inherently ITP-like and the reasons for thinking me ITP seem to stem from overly zealous self-defense more than anything.

There is a level of hypocrisy here that bugs me. I am okay with a Shinori lynch as well, but unless Eury can prove her innocence, this behavior is standing out to me more than the others.

[CT075]

Major reversal upon being challenged. Note the confidence in my being scum.

confidence isn't a scumtell

what is even being reversed? i can't see it

Vote changed only after believing me to be the ITP.

Note the growing confidence in my ITP-ness.

It makes sense; if I can say withi equal confidence that A is mafiascum and B is SK it makes sense to vote for B instead

Finally, today she blatantly says she is not hunting scum but is hunting ITP instead. She blatantly says she is aiming for me because she would be 'skeptical of any aiming for anyone else'.

fine

What part of that is not exactly what I said?

"Ignoring actual tells in favor of gutreads" - what tells has she been ignoring? She wasn't around for most of D2 and the only event of note she really could have talked about was psych's claim

While I can't say I agree with the strength of Eury's conclusions, her reasoning makes sense to me ("you look antitown but it wouldn't make sense for you to be mafiascum")

On why she started aiming for Psych and joining the vote on Paper, it makes sense for her to address her scum buddies and show suspicion as scum in case they get lynched. But I don't see this tunneling a possible ITP as pro-town: as Eury herself told me when I was just happy to let my Psych vote sit and others echoed, 'having just one read/target is not pro-town'.

fine

There's also the point that none of the stuff against me is inherently ITP-like and the reasons for thinking me ITP seem to stem from overly zealous self-defense more than anything.

what are you defining as "inherently ITP-like", anyway?

There is a level of hypocrisy here that bugs me.

this is fine

I am okay with a Shinori lynch as well, but unless Eury can prove her innocence, this behavior is standing out to me more than the others.

and what would that entail

I would definitely like Eury's opinion on who might be mafiascum, though, since there's far more to work off of in that direction

[FrostyFireMage]

I don't understand the reads for me as ITP since my actions can't really reflect that I am the ITP. (What is an ITP-like thing to do? Et cetera.)

FFM and Darros, who makes the most sense to you as scum in light of what just happened?

Eurykins is really setting off a few alarm bells ATM.

Sigh, tired... Why are two random votes being dropped on my head? Quit wasting time and find actual scum, guys, kthx.

@Makaze: Me ITP hunting is never something I'd do as ITP (I'm rather infamous for doing it often as town, and as of right now/currently, I've yet to ever role ITP of any sort, so that notion is kinda moot). Also not exactly a "tell" of me even possibly being one, really. ITP would wish to remain more subtle, and splashing around in your own waters is asking for a death sentence, imo.

I don't like how she's being subjective here

*facedesk* Time to dig up posts...

TL;DR: He's like BB in Shining Force 3; pretty damn certain he's SK/ITP, not Mafia. His actions (logically) also suit ITP moreso than Mafia scum, as well as his posting/reactions/actions as a whole. So I don't think I've ever once stated that he feels like Mafia scum (the closest I got was saying "he feels like some sort of scum to me", but heavily leaning towards SK). That is why I've never bothered labeling him as anything else, because I don't think he's Mafia scum.

Either way, he should honestly die this day phase, and unless the last remaining scum seriously scumslips and gets themselves caught, I'd be skeptical of aiming for anyone else. I'd prefer 2 people not getting shot next night phase, if at all possible, and I'm fairly confident that his lynch will remove one or the two sources.

##Vote: Makaze

Makaze is an easy target and I think she's aiming for him and trying to convince others to do the same because he's the other largest controversial player here.

1. Already been over Makaze case multiple times, which explains my thought process on why I believe him to be the ITP/SK. Besides, I believe some of the actions- albeit careless- also stem from him lacking playing experience and slipping several times with his posts/intentions (also lacking a mentor as well, as compared to Training).

2. I was probably the first/one of the first to vote him that day phase and to start the case(s) on him, so if anything, I aided in starting the snowball that rolled down hill and eventually slammed into his head. And again, I wasn't online when the phase was winding down either, so even if I wanted to, no votes could've come from me to swap from Makaze to Psych.

3. Uh, I fail to see what "potshots" you're referring to (since I'm assuming by that notion that you believe I took one at you?).

4. Because I'm pretty damn confident in my ITP/SK feeling/read on Makaze, and that too will remove a NK source? At this point, my mind/priority is kinda tunneled/stuck on him, and I'd rather my biggest/most distracting scum read be removed to focus on others.

And though it helps (this is regarding associative reads), it also depends on who the remaining scum is from Mafia-side. If it winds up being someone like Shinori or Kay (the quieter/more inactive ones), you're not going to find a whole lot to run off of with them (aside from what's already been said). I already gave my thoughts in terms of such earlier (so not much else for me to say at this point), which is why I'm sticking with my strongest read period. ITP/SK or Mafia- they're both scum. As such, I don't care which falls under the lynch today, and I see no reason to drop Makaze when no one else to me atm is pinging me just as hard as being scum.

She's spending more time defending herself than scumhunting - maybe desperate scum?

I also had misgivings about Walrein in the first day so there's that

...Unfortunately, my vote's been locked unto Makaze, so voting her won't do anything.

[CT075]

ffm am i still scum

[FrostyFireMage]

Your post quality has improved so you're null at this point

[Makaze]

confidence isn't a scumtell

what is even being reversed? i can't see it

Focus moved from things that profit scum to gut reads.

It makes sense; if I can say withi equal confidence that A is mafiascum and B is SK it makes sense to vote for B instead

fine

"Ignoring actual tells in favor of gutreads" - what tells has she been ignoring? She wasn't around for most of D2 and the only event of note she really could have talked about was psych's claim

The tells on Psych in particular. When I said they were confirmed scum I was pretty serious about it. Eury herself was the one who set me on his trail, but as soon as I challenged her and agreed with her read on Psych she flipped onto me. Seemed to forget that actual tells on Psych were a thing.

While I can't say I agree with the strength of Eury's conclusions, her reasoning makes sense to me ("you look antitown but it wouldn't make sense for you to be mafiascum")

fine

what are you defining as "inherently ITP-like", anyway?

That's the thing, I suppose. It seems anything that is self-serving is an ITP tell, but I don't think that's as clear cut as it seems.

I don't think there can be any inherently ITP actions. I might feel differently from the other side but I know that for me I'm just plain touchy about being targeted/more concerned about my own survival. My behavior has changed later in this game specifically because I lost a lot of that self-preservation.

this is fine

and what would that entail

She soft claimed a power role and is waiving that around as a defense. If it's a role that can read night actions or such that it can be easily proven as she said, I'd like to hear more about what results she got for nights 1 and 2.

I'm still not sold that she has a role so that could be irrelevant but soft claiming a role like that out of nowhere means it must be helpful to town in some way. If not... Then it has the opposite implication.

[Eurykins]

so basically all the differences from his training play youve cited are within reason for him as town, cool. who is mafia

I would definitely like Eury's opinion on who might be mafiascum, though, since there's far more to work off of in that direction

Stop asking me for something I've already provided, please. ;/

Okay...?

Major reversal upon being challenged. Note the confidence in my being scum.

No vote change yet.

Vote changed only after believing me to be the ITP.

Note the growing confidence in my ITP-ness.

Finally, today she blatantly says she is not hunting scum but is hunting ITP instead. She blatantly says she is aiming for me because she would be 'skeptical of any aiming for anyone else'.

What part of that is not exactly what I said?

On why she started aiming for Psych and joining the vote on Paper, it makes sense for her to address her scum buddies and show suspicion as scum in case they get lynched. But I don't see this tunneling a possible ITP as pro-town: as Eury herself told me when I was just happy to let my Psych vote sit and others echoed, 'having just one read/target is not pro-town'.

There's also the point that none of the stuff against me is inherently ITP-like and the reasons for thinking me ITP seem to stem from overly zealous self-defense more than anything.

There is a level of hypocrisy here that bugs me. I am okay with a Shinori lynch as well, but unless Eury can prove her innocence, this behavior is standing out to me more than the others.

1. There was no real reversal. From posting content alone, you were a scum read since D1. As of D2, you specifically dropped ITP/SK vibes (which is STILL SCUM).

2. Pointing out points doesn't imply that I have to or need to vote. I was also currently still stuck between you and Psych (and until I read you confidently as ITP scum, I was okay on Psych).

3. And? As of right now, it's 1 SK/TIP and 1 Mafia. Killing one or the other is nailing scum regardless, both of which = beneficial to town. So what? (Is me wanting to remove one scum variant bad compared to me purely wanting to go after the other? It's no different than if I chose to gun purely after "Mafia scum" vs. "ITP/SK scum".)

4. You claimed that I've done nothing aside from tunnel you, which is false.

5. I am appalled at the fact that I still need to repeat myself on this point: I was offline due to Father's day affairs (24 hour window) + busy with IRL situations prior to that. Therefore it was literally impossible to swap votes even if I had wanted to (but thinking on it now, I think I'm fine with it still having stuck to you).

6. Italicized is terrible notion, btw. That's part of your gameplay that's been stinking as of the majority of your posts- you keep feeling the need to SAY that "None of the stuff I do makes sense from scum PoV of any sort." like you feel the need to validate your actions. That in itself seems self-conscious in terms of gameplay, because those arguments are basically sold around saving face (which is scum interest, not town).

7. I don't feel the need to prove myself innocent to a scum party. That being said, I'm also not going to do much as a whole wrt my crumb, so make of it what you will.

Eurykins is really setting off a few alarm bells ATM.

I don't like how she's being subjective here

Makaze is an easy target and I think she's aiming for him and trying to convince others to do the same because he's the other largest controversial player here.

She's spending more time defending herself than scumhunting - maybe desperate scum?

I also had misgivings about Walrein in the first day so there's that

...Unfortunately, my vote's been locked unto Makaze, so voting her won't do anything.

1. Being subjective isn't necessarily a town or scum tell.

2. I can easily say that I'm likewise an easy target due to the D2 announcements against me, plus the fact that I haven't given a real care in terms of how I look as I pursue Makaze. So long as he dies and flips the SK/ITP I believe he will, I'm cool with it. Hell, if I had a vig shot, I would've already put a bullet through his head far before this point. So that point wrt Makaze is pretty much moot.

3. "Maybe desperate scum"? More like, "I'm town, I see/want an SK dead, and I don't care if it requires me dying in the process in order for it to go through." As far as I'm concerned, it'd be worth.

4. Take your issues with Walrein. It's not my job to speak for him, 'cause I wasn't there at the time he made his posts (at most, I could give my 'thoughts' wrt said posts, but I see little point in doing so).

Focus moved from things that profit scum to gut reads.

The tells on Psych in particular. When I said they were confirmed scum I was pretty serious about it. Eury herself was the one who set me on his trail, but as soon as I challenged her and agreed with her read on Psych she flipped onto me. Seemed to forget that actual tells on Psych were a thing.

That's the thing, I suppose. It seems anything that is self-serving is an ITP tell, but I don't think that's as clear cut as it seems.

I don't think there can be any inherently ITP actions. I might feel differently from the other side but I know that for me I'm just plain touchy about being targeted/more concerned about my own survival. My behavior has changed later in this game specifically because I lost a lot of that self-preservation.

She soft claimed a power role and is waiving that around as a defense. If it's a role that can read night actions or such that it can be easily proven as she said, I'd like to hear more about what results she got for nights 1 and 2.

I'm still not sold that she has a role so that could be irrelevant but soft claiming a role like that out of nowhere means it must be helpful to town in some way. If not... Then it has the opposite implication.

1. *sighs* I'm ready to facepalm as to how you're purely a "gut read" in terms of my case on you.

2. Yeah, he was scummy. It was pretty damn obvious with the soft/full claim he did/made- really not hard to tell/see. Other people saw him as scum and that's enough for me; I don't need to be on the wagon with everyone else to see him dead, and I personally liked your wagon better.

3. The vast majority of gameplay that is self-serving IS pretty scummy. People concerned with how they look, as opposed to just scum-hunting and playing the game = pretty scummy. Because they're worried about how they appear in front of everyone else. In addition, acting self-serving in terms of trying to save your own hide and sliding yourself under people's radars? That's also pretty damn scummy. So yeah- scum seek to keep themselves safe/alive; town really shouldn't care about saving themselves (over hunting down and killing scum).

4. I just chose to mention it given that I'm being focused for little to no good/actual reason this day phase. I'm certainly not saying, "Omg, power role gaiz. No touchie me.", but take it as you will. Secondly, no, I won't out any information I may or may not have because once again you're blatantly fishing for information in a way that I don't care for, Makaze.

5. ...So first you fish, and then you're like, 'Oh, but she may not have a role to even divulge' (backtracking much?), and then you waffle HEAVILY on the matter. Pretty bad gameplay, imo.

PS. Feeling more that, of the others remaining, yeah, FFM may be the remaining scum given poor responses/points and constant griping about the voting issue. So Makaze/FFM for remaining scum team.

[CT075]

don't feel like addressing big things right now because there is hax to be finished but there's no such thing as a concrete tell

[Darros]

FFM what do you think of Makaze other than "easy target"? This is important so answer carefully.

[Makaze]

4. I just chose to mention it given that I'm being focused for little to no good/actual reason this day phase. I'm certainly not saying, "Omg, power role gaiz. No touchie me.", but take it as you will. Secondly, no, I won't out any information I may or may not have because once again you're blatantly fishing for information in a way that I don't care for, Makaze.

5. ...So first you fish, and then you're like, 'Oh, but she may not have a role to even divulge' (backtracking much?), and then you waffle HEAVILY on the matter. Pretty bad gameplay, imo.

Firstly, your reads on me are gut reads. You are trying to figure out my role from my mental state alone; the only tell you have is that my behavior is 'strange'. It goes without saying that interpretations of my attitude are subjective and therefore gut reads.

On the last bits, I have more than one problem.

4. If your role is useful, especially in hunting me, it would be helpful for you to divulge info about my role. For example, if you were a watcher you might have watched me last night or the night before and then we could get somewhere because you would know that I had not visited anyone and yet people still ended up dead. If you have one of these useful roles and did not investigate me, that raises questions of its own.

Last time someone soft claimed due to a wagon on them, they flipped scum. Why should we believe you are any different?

5. If you have a power role, you have a reason for stating that you have one. I am not waffling on this at all; there is reason to doubt a claim until it's proven on someone you read as scum. I doubted Psych's claim, too. More importantly, I doubted both of you aloud to prod you into defending yourselves.

You keep saying things like 'bad gameplay' and 'imo'. Is that a tell? Who are you trying to convince, and what are you trying to convince them of?