Taking Beginning Japanese! (Now for Help With Homework)

[FionordeQuester]

Now, I've gotten to the part where we're talking about "Ru Verbs", "U Verbs", and "Irregular Verbs". So far, I understand most of it, except, there's one thing tripping me up. My book says that "To do" and "To come" are the only two irregular verbs, and yet, the worksheet I was assigned says that "to study" is also an irregular verb. What's more, my book doesn't say how to conjugate it in it's present and negative forms. So I did a Google search, and that didn't help because when "Benkyou Suru" was listed, some sources said that was the dictionary form, and some sources said that that was the plain version of the present affirmative form. So I'm at a bit of a loss when it comes to that...

Another question I have, I'm not totally sure as to how exactly I know what the word stems of a word are. Eventually, I just figured "Well, maybe with all 'Ru' verbs, all I have to do is remove the 'Ru' hirigana and slap on the 'Masu' and 'Masen' at the end of it (the book doesn't seem to have introduced the plain versions of words yet), but, still not ENTIRELY sure if that's correct.

Anyways, I know some of you, like Esau of Isaac, know Japanese, so if anyone can help, that'd be really appreciated! But in any case, have a nice day, and God bless you all :) !

Edited November 21, 2014 by FionordeQuester

[Shahrivar]

To study consists of two words - "benkyou" ("the" study) and "suru" (to do = the irregular one) - that's why it's listed as irregular one as it's actually just "suru"

"Suru" is dictionary form and informal present aswell - the formal present is shimasu.

( http://japanese.about.com/blverb3.htm should be fine)

The second part sounds right? I never gave it much thought.

[TheEnd]

Assurhaddon already answered the first question, but anyway:

1. Suru and kuru are irregular. Benkyou-suru is one of the many noun+suru verbs, so you conjugate them just like you would a suru verb (bekyou-shimasu, benkyou-shita, benkyou-saseru, etc). In other words, you only bother about the suru, since it's the actual verb. If it makes easier for you, remember that "benkyou-suru" and "benkyou wo suru" are exactly the same thing.

2. Some verbs that end in -iru and -eru (only) are conjugated with that "drop the ru, add masu". You'll get which ones through practice and/or by looking up on a dictionary. Otherwise, how would you know that 着る (kiru, to dress) is kimasu but　切る (kiru, to cut) is kirimasu? Or that iru (to stay/be) is imasu and 要る (iru - to need) is irimasu? If memory serves, however, the majority (if not all of them) of -eru verbs follow the "-ru +masu" pattern. The -iru ones are the troublesome ones.

All -aru, -oru and (non-kuru/suru) -uru verbs follow the "u verb" conjugation, though. All of them.

Edited September 25, 2014 by OldMan

[Flying Shogi]

Taking intermediate Japanese so I should be able to answer these questions.

1. Like Oldman has mentioned, benkyousuru is one of the many noun+verbs in Japanese, therefore they conjugate like the same way suru does. You'll see some other kuru verbs as well but suru verbs are more common.

2. I have been taught that verb stem is masu form without the masu. To conjugate into masu form, Ru verbs just drop the ru and add masu while U verbs you change the ending hiragana character to its i column counterpart. For example, yameru, to quit, is a Ru verb so its verb stem is yame, therefore its masu form is just yamemasu. Au, to meet, is an U verb so its verb stem is ai because aimasu is its masu form. Note the change from u -> i and then adding the masu.

By the way, which textbook are you using? I use the Genki series and I think I learned about verb stems around chapter 3. Chapter 4 is when they go into more detail about verbs.

If memory serves, however, the majority (if not all of them) of -eru verbs follow the "-ru +masu" pattern.

From the top of my head, 帰る(kaeru, to return) is one of those special -eru ending U verbs.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Magician Lugh

[FionordeQuester]

Neat! Thanks a ton guys!

[Esau of Isaac]

While I'm sad other people already answered, I guess I will contribute by recommending you check out local B&N for books that show you all the conjugations for popular verbs. They help you until you instinctively get a hang for it. Suru, shinai, shite, shiyou, etc.

頑張ろうね :D

[FionordeQuester]

Hmm, since this is still on the front page, I guess I'll give some news. My mid-term came in, and I got a C...but only because it seems the instructor gives something like a 20% boost to our grades since the class is so tough, so really I got something like a 55%...

Part of that, I believe, is due to his lesson plan being really disorganized due to having to teach from an entirely new textbook this year, and we never even had any quizzes until the exam, so we weren't able to get used to the format of the Mid-Term (many of my classmates complained of this too)...but HOLY COW IS THIS STUFF TOUGH!

So, I've started a new habit of spending at least a half hour every day reading before I go to bed. Right now, I'm trying to memorize some verbs, as that seems to be my main hold up when trying to follow along with my Sensei's lesson plans. But, at the very least, I have reached the following benchmarks...

1) I have basically memorized both my Katakana and my Hiragana.

2) I have memorized all of the number Kanji to a point where I can generally remember them all (1, 2, 3, Happyaku, Sen/Zen, Man).

3) I've got about 10 Verbs memorized.

4) I don't have the days of the week and the dates of various days entirely memorized, but I'm getting close thanks to the help of my tutor.

And...yeah, I think that does it for milestones. It's a really tough class, but it's also an absolute BLAST to learn how to read and write all those cool symbols I could never interpret before. And, now that I've gotten my imported copy of FE12 from Japan, it's really satisfying to at least be able to read bits and pieces of what's being said, even if all of the Kanji is TOTALLY beyond me. At the very least, it seems like the names were translated pretty literally and the like (with Katarina's name literally being a word-for-word translation of her Japanese name xD!).

So, that's it for now. I think I'm doing fine, but...does anyone happen to know any chat rooms for people to practice their Japanese? Studying is kind of a drag to do by itself, and I don't exactly know a ton of people taking Japanese, so...would anyone know?

[TheEnd]

1) I have basically memorized both my Katakana and my Hiragana.

2) I have memorized all of the number Kanji to a point where I can generally remember them all (1, 2, 3, Happyaku, Sen/Zen, Man).

One of my teachers once told me you learn kanji (and kana too, but that's easier) with your hands, not with your head. Practice writing them. Repeatedly. And if possible, with context (words/phrases).

3) I've got about 10 Verbs memorized.

Try making phrases instead of simply memorizing verbs, if you aren't already.

4) I don't have the days of the week and the dates of various days entirely memorized, but I'm getting close thanks to the help of my tutor.

Cheat-sheet for the days of the week: nichi-getsu-ka-sui-moku-kin-do

So, that's it for now. I think I'm doing fine, but...does anyone happen to know any chat rooms for people to practice their Japanese? Studying is kind of a drag to do by itself, and I don't exactly know a ton of people taking Japanese, so...would anyone know?

Sorry, all practice I got outside of class was playing games and watching animu

[Esau of Isaac]

4) I don't have the days of the week and the dates of various days entirely memorized, but I'm getting close thanks to the help of my tutor.

It may help to remember the meaning of the kanji along with the pronunciation.

月 = Getsu = Moon

火 = Ka = Fire

水 = Sui = Water

木 = Moku = Wood, tree

金 = Kin = Gold

土 = Do = Soil, earth

日 = Nichi = Sun

So, that's it for now. I think I'm doing fine, but...does anyone happen to know any chat rooms for people to practice their Japanese? Studying is kind of a drag to do by itself, and I don't exactly know a ton of people taking Japanese, so...would anyone know?

/jp/ on 4chan tends to have a sticky for newbies that are getting a hang of their Japanese, but they can be a real bunch of tards so your mileage may vary.

I'd recommend you to a few Japanese friends on Skype I know, but their English is bad enough that they probably wouldn't be able to help haha

[Siuloir]

It may help to remember the meaning of the kanji along with the pronunciation.

月 = Getsu = Moon

火 = Ka = Fire

水 = Sui = Water

木 = Moku = Wood, tree

金 = Kin = Gold

土 = Do = Soil, earth

日 = Nichi = Sun

/jp/ on 4chan tends to have a sticky for newbies that are getting a hang of their Japanese, but they can be a real bunch of tards so your mileage may vary.

I'd recommend you to a few Japanese friends on Skype I know, but their English is bad enough that they probably wouldn't be able to help haha

I would recommend avoiding the cesspool of 4chan in attempting to learn Japanese.

You've only given their On reading (The ones derived from Chinese). Kanji also have a Kun reading, which is the native Japanese equivalency

The Kun are -

月 = Tsuki

火 = Hi (also Ho)

水 = Mizu = Water

木 = Ki (also Ko)= Wood, tree

金 = Kane = Gold

土 = Tsuchi = Soil, earth

日 = Hi (also Ka) = Sun

[Esau of Isaac]

I would recommend avoiding the cesspool of 4chan in attempting to learn Japanese.

I mean, /jp/'s not all bad. /a/ neither. Both of them have helpful frequent posters who can give direction when someone's a bit lost on the use of this or that grammar form. It can just be insufferable to deal with some of the more insufferable personalities is all.

You've only given their On reading (The ones derived from Chinese). Kanji also have a Kun reading, which is the native Japanese equivalency

The Kun are -

月 = Tsuki

火 = Hi (also Ho)

水 = Mizu = Water

木 = Ki (also Ko)= Wood, tree

金 = Kane = Gold

土 = Tsuchi = Soil, earth

日 = Hi (also Ka) = Sun

Yes, I am aware of the presence of different readings. And I did not list them because he is trying to learn the days of the week, which use the onyomi. Bogging him down with learning all of that can be daunting for a beginner.

[FionordeQuester]

Ok then, I decided on something else! Up until now, I've been spending a lot of my teacher's time having him look over the answers of all of my homework questions, but, now I decided that I was using up too much of his time. So, instead...I'm simply going to post my answers here, if you all don't mind.

And if you decide you do not mind (and I understand if you do :) ...)...I've got seven questions to look over. So, here they are, along with my answers, and what I think they are asking. Hopefully the lack of Japanese symbols don't hurt any, as I don't know how to make those characters with my keyboard...

Question #1:

Q) Asa okite, Nani O Shimasu KA? (When you wake up, what do you do?)

A) Ie NO Naka DE Asagohan O Tabemasu.

Question #2:

Q) Kinou, Ie NI Kaette nani O Shimashita KA? (What did you do after getting home yesterday?)

A) Asobimashita.

Question #3:

Q) Testo NO Taki, Kyoukashyo O Mitemoiidesu KA? (Can I look at my textbook during the test?)

A) Hai, Mitemoiidesuyo.

Question #4:

Q) Hikouki NO Naka DE Nani O Shite HA ikemasen KA? (What can't you do in an airplane?)

A) Hikouki NO Naka DE Sakende HA ikemasen. ("You must not shout" I think. The verb "To shout" was in a dictionary rather than my textbook though, so I'm not sure if I conjugated that right).

Question #5:

Q) Kodomo NO Toki, Yoku Benkyou Shimashita KA? (Did you study much as a child?)

A) Ano...Omoidasemasen. (Tried to say "Um...I don't remember". Hopefully I got that right!)

Question #6:

Q) Kodomo NO Toki, Yoku Gemu O Shimashita KA? (Did you play games a lot as a child?)

A) Hai. Yoku Gemu O Shimashita. (I WISH I could say it more emphatically, so that I could end it with an exclamation mark instead, but I don't know how to use emphatic particles yet!)

Question #7:

Q) Koukou NO Toki, Yoku Nani O Shimashita KA? (What did you often do in High School?)

A) Yoku Benkyou Shimashita (I wanted to say that I did Cross Country, but I couldn't find an equivalent term in Japanese).

Edited November 21, 2014 by FionordeQuester

[Dagon]

You should setup your computer with IME and put the Japanese keyboard on there to switch between the two.

I can tell you how to do it if you don't know how to.

Also for days of the week and month you need to be careful.

• １日　ついたち
• ２日　ふつか
• ３日　みっか
• ４日　よっか
• ５日　いつか
• ６日　むいか
• ７日　なのか
• ８日　ようか
• ９日　ここのか
• １０日　とおか

When I was learning I always made the mistake of counting them as いちにち（一日）。Which is not correct at all. You just need to memorize them.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Dagon

[Esau of Isaac]

1.) 「家の中で」 sounds off, just say 家で. Also when saying 家の中 it sounds like you should use に instead of で, though I could be wrong it just sounds off to me.

2.) Good as is.

3.) Your answer is grammatically correct but won't be accepted. Or wouldn't have been in my classes, haha. Just to be safe say 「いえ、見てはいけません」

4.) Looks good, though I'm not familiar with the usage of さけぶ.

5.) This one's wrong. It's a mistake I made often. 思い出せません means that you're not capable of remembering, not just that you don't remember. 思い出しません sounds better.

6.) To me it sounds better if you omit ゲーム. Just よくしました sounds good

7.) Track and field is 陸上, so you could use that.

When I was learning I always made the mistake of counting them as いちにち（一日）。Which is not correct at all. You just need to memorize them.

Ichinichi is correct, just not for referring to days of the month. It's used for "one day."

Edited November 21, 2014 by Esau of Isaac

[Dagon]

1.) 「家の中で」 sounds off, just say 家で. Also when saying 家の中 it sounds like you should use に instead of で, though I could be wrong it just sounds off to me.

2.) Good as is.

3.) Your answer is grammatically correct but won't be accepted. Or wouldn't have been in my classes, haha. Just to be safe say 「いえ、見てはいけません」

4.) Looks good, though I'm not familiar with the usage of さけぶ.

5.) This one's wrong. It's a mistake I made often. 思い出せません means that you're not capable of remembering, not just that you don't remember. 思い出しません sounds better.

6.) To me it sounds better if you omit ゲーム. Just よくしました sounds good

7.) Track and field is 陸上, so you could use that.

Ichinichi is correct, just not for referring to days of the month. It's used for "one day."

That was my bad for not explaining that.

_____________________________________________________________________

に is more specific then で iirc. Also で can denote mode of transportation as well when you start learning more Japanese in the future Quester.

I think the usage of で is appropriate since he's just talking about his house. Kind of broad but the point of the sentence is that he eats food at his house rather than where the house is. I think there's cases where they're interchangeable though.

_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.tofugu.com/2011/08/15/japanese-conjugation/ - This should help you a bit with conjugation.

Oh and by the way you want to alternate between informal and formal. You can tell when someone is a foreigner based on how they switch it up. If you don't switch between the two it can be glaringly obvious you're not an experienced speaker. This is more for you to fit in rather than being correct. You could speak informal but people would consider you too polite in some cases. Doesn't mean you should just go informal all the time. Native speakers often tell me that a foreigner might not have an accent but the conversations get awkward because they only speak formally rather than informal.

Don't really worry too much about formal or informal but know that you can switch it up.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Dagon

[FionordeQuester]

Hmm...well, I didn't have time to correct everything before heading to class...but fortunately, he didn't mind looking over everything. And he actually did accept 3, so, seems he's a bit more lenient then Esau's teacher, lol :P

So then, thanks a ton you two :). I'll be sure to get that ISM Keyboard, in the future, so, till the next time I want help, or...just feel like asking something, have a nice day!

[Chiki]

Another question I have, I'm not totally sure as to how exactly I know what the word stems of a word are.

If I recall correctly, Japanese verbs don't have bare forms like in English. The closest you can get to finding their bare forms is by trying to put the verbs in an infinitival clause (nonfinite clause) like "I want to eat babies" to get the bare form. Translate "to eat" to Japanese and there's your answer. Something that might also work is negation: "I did not eat babies." Translate that to Japanese and see what you get. I'm not familiar enough with Japanese to tell you if the second one will work though.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Chiki

[Esau of Isaac]

Japanese does have base/bare form, also referred to as stem-form or pre-masu form. For example

遊ぶ | あそぶ | asobu

遊びます | あそびます | asobimasu

遊び | あそび | asobi

Edited November 22, 2014 by Esau of Isaac

[Flying Shogi]

1.) 「家の中で」 sounds off, just say 家で. Also when saying 家の中 it sounds like you should use に instead of で, though I could be wrong it just sounds off to me.

I agree that 「家の中で」does sound a bit weird.

In my mind, 家の中で means "inside of the house" vs. 家の中に means "in the house" vs. 家で means "at home" or "at the house". That's how I think of them. Subtle, but there are differences in my opinion.

I read bare form as ばれ and I was like what is that.

[Esau of Isaac]

Yeah, that's mainly how I feel as well. I couldn't really explain it that well.

haha, and ばせ form too! Now that I re-read it, it does look weird. @__@

[Flying Shogi]

haha, and ばせ form too! Now that I re-read it, it does look weird. @__@

I never heard of base/bare form until I saw it here. I've been told dictionary form ever since it became relevant.

Question #6:

Q) Kodomo NO Toki, Yoku Gemu O Shimashita KA? (Did you play games a lot as a child?)

A) Hai. Yoku Gemu O Shimashita. (I WISH I could say it more emphatically, so that I could end it with an exclamation mark instead, but I don't know how to use emphatic particles yet!)

You could add よ. Kinda like "I did indeed often play video games as a kid." I can't explain よ that well.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Magician Lugh

[Esau of Isaac]

I was always taught of it as "stem form" or "pre-masu" form. It's the verbs in the infinitive, though, which is what Olwen was referring to.

[Flying Shogi]

I looked infinitive form up so it's verb stem, right? As in 行く　ー＞　行き?

[Esau of Isaac]

Yup, that's right. That's infinitive in Japanese. They have a Japanese word for it too, 「連用形」or「れんようけい」. I like learning about other languages' clinical terms, haha.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Esau of Isaac

[Dagon]

I never heard of base/bare form until I saw it here. I've been told dictionary form ever since it became relevant.

You could add よ. Kinda like "I did indeed often play video games as a kid." I can't explain よ that well.

Same, I was told it was the dictionary form when I was learning. Never new they called it this way.