Raven Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Alcohol and cigarettes are more damaging than weed. Maybe I'd drink less alcohol if weed was legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The argument by itself is weak until a hidden premisse is added to enforce it ("Marijuana is similar to alcohol and tobacco"). That's my point. Also, until someone explains why marijuana is similar to alcohol and tobacco, it means nothing. Hidden? What are you talking about? He stated it very clearly. You might want to go back and do more research on critical thinking. I have some sources to help you and if you're interested, I can PM them to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes, but I was talking about arguments based solely on the fact that Cigs and Ethanol are legal. Backing it with "because it is not as bad" is understandable. It's not weak; in fact it's a very strong argument. Marijuana is non-addictive (hasj is a bit different) and while the health effects per smoke are greater than cigarettes, the fact remains you smoke a few spliffs a day at most. You've clearly never hung out with a smoker if you think it will just be a few spliffs a day. It can still be habit forming if used as an escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Just where the hell do you think I live and how old I am. I know plenty of people who use or used cannabis as a form of escape. I also know only a few who developed a hasj habit. Out of a few hundred. And yes, up to 5-6 smokes a day is the highest amount I've ever seen anyone do. Compared to well over a pack a day for cigs. The reality still remains that marijuana preparations do not do things that other legal products don't, while not being worse than them. For Christ's sake you can always still drink your problems away. It still is intellectually dishonest not to scrap it from drug law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbyradical Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Exactly. There was never any real reason to ban it in the first place, it is pretty commonly accepted the banning (along with other substances) was politically fueled; it was to oppose hippies. The health concerns of smoking marijuana are comparable to or lesser than alcohol and tobacco. And if those are considered acceptable risks for those two, then its hypocritical not to rewind the marijuana ban. You have it wrong it was mostly illegal by the time of hippies and the real movement to move towards making drugs illegal started in 1910s. It is sort of a myth that the people that successfully made most recreational drugs illegal weren't trying to get cigarettes and alcohol on the same page. It just was that they were unsuccessful. They pushed too hard on alcohol and lost because of the extreme measure (making an amendment). With marijuana they did the creeping method to criminalizing and were successful. Don't think that they are not using the creeping method on cigarettes. They tax the hell out of it and even attempted to make smokers pay double for health insurance under Obamacare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hidden? What are you talking about? He stated it very clearly. You might want to go back and do more research on critical thinking. I have some sources to help you and if you're interested, I can PM them to you. I was referring solely to the "Cigs and Alcohol are legal so MJ should be as well" argument, formerly brought up by Ownagepuffs. It is weak by itself, until one reconstructs the arguments by adding certain premisses that makes them stronger. This should be evident to whoever studied critical thinking, shouldn't it? Gyarados reconstructed the argument and made it strong, though my question still persists: How is marijuana less nocive than tobacco? Her defense is resumed to saying it is not as addictive and that people only smoke 5-6 cigarettes a day. Yet she also admitted that marijuana has more undesirable health effects than tobacco (the fact that people use cannabis less often than tobacco does not change this fact). I'll be honest, I don't really care about what other people do with their personal lives, so long as they don't interfere with others'. Each person is responsible for their own actions. My only issue with cannabis is that it may potentially affect an entire society negatively. I don't want to defend this position just yet because I have to study more about the matter (I only replied to correct my earlier posts), but if I had to sum it up, that'd be it. I am totally against any other drug legalization, though. @Chiki Yes, I am interested. I'm glad for your help, though I don't see what is wrong with my argument as it currently is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 You're completely missing the point. You said his premise was hidden. It so obviously wasn't hidden at all because he briefly mentioned it. You may want an explanation for his premise. That's fine, but it has no bearing on the issue of the premise itself being hidden. I'll PM you an online textbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dynamite Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 What it boils down to for me, is that the government should not decide what you can/cannot put into your body. If you act a fool and hurt other people, you should be punished accordingly but there is nothing wrong with responsible drug use to the extent we should be putting people in jail over it. A quote I read the other day sums it up well, "Treatment is for those who hurt themselves, prison is for those who hurt others." This accurately depicts my views on the situation. Putting someone in jail for drug use will do more harm than it will good, ultimately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Starwind Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I don't use it but they just made it legal here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) It should be legalized and approved for medical use only. I've never understood the whole "Cigs and Alcohol are legal so MJ should be as well" argument. It's weak, as it can be applied to basically every drug. Let me put that argument this way: I think it's self-evidently ludicrous that thousands of people have been put in jail for doing one thing, using marijuana, but not for another, using alcohol, all other circumstances being equal, despite that it's extremely difficult at best to make a truly solid argument (as I'd hope it would be necessary to do when we're talking about crafting the laws of the land) that marijuana is substantially more physically and socially dangerous than alcohol, or even more dangerous at all. A user of marijuana can damage the trajectory of their lives simply through overuse if all they end up wanting to do is get high, even without definitely physically disabling themselves, sure, but they can absolutely do the same with alcohol, and the latter may arguably be even worse for them physically. (part of the reason we're not sure is that government restrictions on legal testing of marijuana are so restrictive that they've been proceeding at a snail's pace if at all, for another thing) Edited November 6, 2014 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonLord Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I agree with most people here saying it should be regulated if legalized. I mean, people are bound to use it anyway right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I agree with most people here saying it should be regulated if legalized. I mean, people are bound to use it anyway right? People are bound to use crystal meth too, so why not regulate if not legalize that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Baby steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I wasn't trying to introduce a slippery slope type of argument here or anything. Just showing the flaw in DL's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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