Pairings and possibilities that could have changed the metagame

[Thor Odinson]

Whoops, forgot Tharja's also +3.

Gerome still stands, though.

[PacoHeavyFire]

I would post more things for this topic, but I'd have to think about them throughly, but how do you think 4 class sets for each Parent character would affect everything? Would it be too much?

[Ownagepuffs]

Would it be too much?

Yes.

[Anacybele]

Ingame? Sure (though Avatar-M's options aren't all good- only a handful can perform as well as Chrom x Avatar, and that's only if you train the wife up first. An example is Maribelle, who gives both children garbage starting classes and requires more attention than usual to get into a weapon using class). Postgame? Pairing imbalance, use caution (and you're even more constrained in terms of Avatar's wife- out of the entire first gen, only Sumia, Cordelia and Aversa have everything he wants for postgame).

Well, with a male Avatar, you can maximize Galeforce kids because you'd be able to do Donnel x Sully, Gaius x Tharja, and Avatar x Nowi. And at the same time, you get a Manakete Morgan. I've heard that this rips things to shreds post-game.

If Female Avatar had more options for two children, she could pass down Galeforce to an additional male child instead of just Morgan for some potentially equally strong results.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Anacybele

[shadowofchaos]

I've heard that this rips things to shreds post-game.

I'm just going to just point this and the the fact that you haven't ever played a male MU out and leave out my "possibly taken as flaming" comments.

If we're talking postgame, Manakete Morgan's stats don't outweigh the lack of braves.

Edited November 15, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Nowi and Yarne.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Rabbattack

[Czar_Yoshi]

Well, with a male Avatar, you can maximize Galeforce kids because you'd be able to do Donnel x Sully, Gaius x Tharja, and Avatar x Nowi. And at the same time, you get a Manakete Morgan. I've heard that this rips things to shreds post-game.

If Female Avatar had more options for two children, she could pass down Galeforce to an additional male child instead of just Morgan for some potentially equally strong results.

That used to be the prevailing wisdom (more than a year ago), but it's had a lot of holes poked in it now.

See, let's say you do use Avatar x Nowi. You now have all 7 girls with Galeforce, and... Only six boys total. That means one of your females is going to lack an S support, and that's unacceptable for postgame (mainly Apo, but do you really want to leave one permanently without a support at all?) due to the loss in Dual Strike%, so they'll wind up being benched. Avatar will likely get benched too, because during postgame killing things fast matters more than taking hits and Nowi is pretty much the worst wife in the game for doing the former. Thus, you'll be benching Avatar (the most versatile hard support in the game) and one of your female children with Galeforce.

You now have six pairs total, three double Galepairs and three single Galepairs. Each of the singles gives you two attacks per turn and each of the doubles gives you three attacks per turn, so you've got a total of 6+9 = 15 attacks per turn with an Avatar x Nowi setup.

Now, let's say instead that you marry Avatar-M to a second gen girl with Galeforce (probably Lucina, but Cynthia and Severa are very good too). You'll wind up with six girls with Galeforce and one without, and three boys with Galeforce and four without (since Avatar is marrying 2nd gen, he counts here). Now that there are seven units on either side, the sides are balanced and you can have seven pairings. Nah (the most likely one to be without Galeforce) will want to pair with a Galeboy to be part of a double Galepair, so you'll wind up with two double Galepairs and five single Galepairs. All told, that's 16 attacks per turn, both beating out Nowi by one and giving you a third gen Morgan with higher stats and the change to inherit something cool like Aether.

Make sense?

[Anacybele]

Eh, I guess. That's a long explanation, so it's a lot to go through my brain. >_<

[Alastor15243]

Not necessarily the case for highest Magic cap -- male Avatar with +Mag/-Str, Skl, Spd, Res can marry Ricken!Noire to get a female Morgan with +10 Magic mod.

Yeah, but FeMU can do it without rendering a couple galeforceless.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Eh, I guess. That's a long explanation, so it's a lot to go through my brain. >_<

Short version: marrying first gen gives you seven children girls and six boys, so one girl can't marry and her Galeforce will be wasted. Thus, you lose out on any advantage you gain from marrying Nowi and only get the bad parts.

[Alastor15243]

Short version: marrying first gen gives you seven children girls and six boys, so one girl can't marry and her Galeforce will be wasted. Thus, you lose out on any advantage you gain from marrying Nowi and only get the bad parts.

But you can just team up with Lucina, can't you? So it's not a gargantuan loss...

[Alastor15243]

If we're going for homosexual reproduction here, what about SumiaxPanne? Cynthia gets Wyvern rider, enough speed to use it effectively, and a fairly good strength bonus, while Yarne can get galeforce and Luna. Plus, again, +7 SPEED.

Edit: sorry for double post.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Alastor15243

[Czar_Yoshi]

But you can just team up with Lucina, can't you? So it's not a gargantuan loss...

You can, but you're effectively:

-Losing your free 2nd gen 100% DS pair,

-Giving Avatar a wife with only four skillslots,

-Giving Morgan bad mods.

All for one more double Galepair. Now, I've actually done this before and it's not exactly a bad course of action, but it's not one that I can say is superior to the rest.

[Thor Odinson]

Wouldn't FeMU work better for 3rd gen morgan in terms of having more galeforce users anyway? Since Gen2 doesn't have their own kids, so MaMU and FeMU are both locked to having one child in Morgan and MaMU's not passing his supergaleforcegenes to anyone else. Morgan gets galeforce either way, either through inheritance or on their own, but only FeMU gets galeforce herself.

I mean unless you really want Morgan to have Aether or something, I guess

On another note wrt Panne x Sumia I think Panne x Cordelia would be pretty great too for the same reasons minus Luna; Panne's physical mods are just so nice it's a shame Yarne can't get galeforce

Edited November 16, 2014 by Thor Odinson

[Anacybele]

Short version: marrying first gen gives you seven children girls and six boys, so one girl can't marry and her Galeforce will be wasted. Thus, you lose out on any advantage you gain from marrying Nowi and only get the bad parts.

Ah, now I understand perfectly. Thanks. :)

[fengaridotdll]

I'm just going to just point this and the the fact that you haven't ever played a male MU out and leave out my "possibly taken as flaming" comments.

If we're talking postgame, Manakete Morgan's stats don't outweigh the lack of braves.

I've exeperienced Manakete Morgan rip things to shreds myself (I married Nowi). I did have to change class a little bit on her for Armsthrift, Sol, and *INESRT NAME OF OTHER USEFUL SKILL HERE* (Not quite done training her yet, and I'm still far from complete with Nah)

MU X Streetpass units.

Not only would it be funny for Morgan to have such outrageous hair colors (like Marisa's hot pink), but it would also be funny for Morgan's mom/dad (depending on player gender) to be absolutely mute, even to the point of eeriness

(I did not even notice I double posted, thought someone posted before me)

(Multiposting would not happen as easily and there would not be as much warnings if you put in a freaking delete post button)

Edited November 16, 2014 by Mastergabe2000

[Czar_Yoshi]

Wouldn't FeMU work better for 3rd gen morgan in terms of having more galeforce users anyway? Since Gen2 doesn't have their own kids, so MaMU and FeMU are both locked to having one child in Morgan and MaMU's not passing his supergaleforcegenes to anyone else. Morgan gets galeforce either way, either through inheritance or on their own, but only FeMU gets galeforce herself.

Yes, Avatar-F does give one more total GF. Most arguments in favor of Avatar-M x 2nd gen for Apo are either incredibly situational or could count as picking straws, but I've also yet to run into anything you can -only- do with an Avatar-F that isn't equally situational, so which one to use is really almost a matter of opinion- I'd say they're equally good.

If you asked me for an example of why Avatar-M would be chosen over F, the most solid one I can supply is (what I assume to be) the logic behind Airship's choice to use M for his no DLC/Rally run: since males tend toward support roles and females tend toward lead roles, using a +Spd Avatar-M gives a more useful Spd pool (Morgan-F as a lead has +9, Avatar-F as a lead would have +4), and Spd was very tight in his run. What with stats being 20-22 lower across the board in his run, this was a really big deal.

Personally, I prefer Avatar-M.

I've exeperienced Manakete Morgan rip things to shreds myself (I married Nowi). I did have to change class a little bit on her for Armsthrift, Sol, and *INESRT NAME OF OTHER USEFUL SKILL HERE* (Not quite done training her yet, and I'm still far from complete with Nah)

I don't doubt it. Awakening is kind of a lawnmower simulator in which anyone can get ahead of the curve and mash stuff with enough attention.

But your personal experience is based on how Morgan stacks up to the enemies she's fighting, and not on how she stacks up to other Morgans. And since everyone can take down enemies with ease, that's not a very useful comparison.

[Thor Odinson]

Ah, I see. That's fair.

[Ownagepuffs]

The real reason the game lacks same sex marriage is because Sumia and Cordy would be getting too much action.

Either one of them with literally any chick produces phenomenal results.

[astrophys]

Regarding posts #32 and #35 by Czar_Yoshi….

Yes, its a fair enough point that marrying a 2nd generation character allows for one more attack per turn (16 vs. 15).

But of course we know that Apotheosis doesn't even require anything remotely close to this, even on the secret route.

Sure, you can perhaps beat Apotheosis in less turns with such setups. But if you manage to beat Apotheosis with less Galeforce pairs then at the end of the day you've still beaten Apotheosis.

I myself did the secret route of Apotheosis with pair-ups of male Avatar x Cordelia, Inigio x Severa, and Owain x Morgan. The first such pair gets 2 attacks per turn while the second and third pairs get 3 attacks per turn. Which left me with only 8 attacks per turn. I had other characters, but they were either using staves or were rallying and as such they were not attacking.

Yet even this was more than enough for me to clear the secret route easily. Even for the timed waves I had roughly half of my turns left on the timer by the time I finished them.

So really it isn't particularly worth worrying about whether you can get 15 attacks per turn with one build versus 16 attacks per turn with some other build when even a much lower number, such as 8, is still more than adequate for ensuring victory.

[fengaridotdll]

The real reason the game lacks same sex marriage is because Sumia and Cordy would be getting too much action.

Either one of them with literally any chick produces phenomenal results.

Actually, if it were in the games, women who have children would require coding so much exceptions that a computer would instantly BSOD (that was a really stupid analogy)

[isetrh]

It's far from optimal, but Lucina x Nowi would be fun. Galeforce Aether Manakete with great speed! Terrible for postgame and takes too much work to really be worth it ingame, but it would be a really fun option on anything that isn't Lunatic+, or for those who grind.

FeMU x Sully, Nowi, or Tharja would be a stronger version of the MaMU pairing. Galeforce for one parent and the kids gain the potential to start out with it instead of having to grab it themselves. Losing out on male classes doesn't seem like too big of a deal. If it's postgame these pairings are non-optimal anyway. On Lunatic+ you might want the Warrior class, but if you're marrying any of these three I don't think your main goal is having the easiest possible time on L+.

Chrom x FeMorgan has been mentioned in other threads, and I could be missing something but this seems like an amazing pair. Morgan gets 100% DS, and Lucina is like FeMU!Lucina except she doesn't hurt Morgan and she has the potential for amazing mods. Lucina!Morgan creates a paradox, but some variant of Severa!Morgan could work. Sully!Severa!Morgan!Lucina/Cordelia!Kjelle!Morgan!Lucina, maybe?

Edited November 16, 2014 by isetrh

[Czar_Yoshi]

The real reason the game lacks same sex marriage is because Sumia and Cordy would be getting too much action.

Either one of them with literally any chick produces phenomenal results.

I'd say it's actually because that Cordelia x Maribelle Scramble convo could take on a whole new meaning...

Actually, if it were in the games, women who have children would require coding so much exceptions that a computer would instantly BSOD (that was a really stupid analogy)

I'm reasonably sure that coding same-gender pairings would actually take less work than opposite-gender ones, so this isn't really an issue.

Chrom x FeMorgan has been mentioned in other threads, and I could be missing something but this seems like an amazing pair. Morgan gets 100% DS, and Lucina is like FeMU!Lucina except she doesn't hurt Morgan and she has the potential for amazing mods. Lucina!Morgan creates a paradox, but some variant of Severa!Morgan could work. Sully!Severa!Morgan!Lucina/Cordelia!Kjelle!Morgan!Lucina, maybe?

Forget marrying them, I just want Chrom to be able to support his granddaughter.

[Ownagepuffs]

Oh man, I had honestly forgotten how fantastic the scramble dialogues are as a whole. Then I remembered how good Future Past is as well.

... Brb lamenting.

Anyway, I seriously wish Say'ri and Basilio were thrown into the marriage pool. Phila too. I remember a long time ago I thought up classes and mods for Phila (I think I gave her Cavalier, Troubadour, and Pegasus tree). I thought of a kid for Say'ri and Phila too. Phila's child had a fear of heights and flying, and was really insecure about it since Phila is a bamf so she starts as a Cavalier instead. Say'ri's kid took refuge in Ferox and became a Knight after the fall of Chon'sin in the future (like Kjelle, he would have 4 base classes but with Galeforece at base so he would be Cynthia tier).

Fun.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Ownagepuffs

[Czar_Yoshi]

Oh man, I had honestly forgotten how fantastic the scramble dialogues are as a whole. Then I remembered how good Future Past is as well.

... Brb lamenting.

Honestly, I'm not sure whether the reason I've stuck with Awakening so long is more because it's so nice for casual play or because there's so much depth to postgame customization. What I do know is that Awakening is on my (two long) list of games that have managed to defy the rose-tinted glasses on subsequent "aesthetic" playthroughs, which is saying quite a lot.