Who could Ike's wife be?

[Magical Glace]

And that still doesn't matter. There are other reasons I dislike the pairing, end of story. I'm not denying that it getting in the way of Ike x Elincia is ONE reason, but it's hardly the only reason. I disliked the pairing before I knew it was an option. I mean, I was shocked as hell to hear that Ike couldn't marry Elincia. I totally thought it was going to happen, though I suppose the blame for that can partly be placed on NoA for teasing the pairing when it wasn't so teased in the original script. Still, things like the ending cutscene exist, and that was a big factor in my love of the pairing.

Dual Dragons: I still don't see how or why Elincia would've been breast fed by Geoffrey and Lucia's mom when her own mom was still alive. But maybe she breast fed from both, now that I think about it. Who knows.

Nobles rarely breast feed with their own mothers. The series even has a precedent on this.

[Jave]

Maybe I'm interpreting things the wrong way, but based on their interactions in FE10, it's really not surprising that Geoffrey and Elincia would end up married. They obviously care for each other a lot, but the way their conversations take place it's kinda obvious they were setting them up for a paired ending.

[Anacybele]

I honestly don't know where you're getting the idea that Elincia is a few years younger than both Lucia and Geoffrey, Ana. If my memory of PoR/RD script is correct:

>Elincia is only Lucia's milk sibling. Not Geoffrey's.

>It is stated somewhere in RD script that Lucia is the older of her and Geoffrey.

>If Elincia and Lucia shared milk from the same woman, they were likely close in age. Likely no more than a year apart.

>If Elincia and Lucia are close to the same age and Lucia is Geoffrey's older sister, Elincia is likely older than Geoffrey.

So … yeah, I don't see this "Elincia has to be a few years younger" thing.

EDIT: Also, milk siblings is a thing because most nobility considered it "beneath" them to breastfeed their own kids.

Elincia just looks younger to me. She's smaller than both of them too. And Geoffrey and Lucia are much more experienced politicians and warriors. Elincia isn't. I don't see how Geoffrey can be younger than Elincia, who looks the same age as Ike, imo, and be as experienced and respected a leader as he is. I mean, he's a prepromoted Paladin and is a general even in PoR. I always felt that he was in his early 20s in PoR, with Lucia maybe three years older. She looks to be in her mid twenties to me.

Nobles rarely breast feed with their own mothers. The series even has a precedent on this.

...Well, that's a weird idea.

EDIT: Jave: I didn't see any of that even in RD. Elincia treats Geoffrey pretty formally there, as far as I could tell. "You are surely my finest and most faithful knight." Yeah. To me, the pairing was pretty out of nowhere, though a lack of proper supports in RD definitely didn't help anything.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Anacybele

[Dual Dragons]

Dual Dragons: I still don't see how or why Elincia would've been breast fed by Geoffrey and Lucia's mom when her own mom was still alive. But maybe she breast fed from both, now that I think about it. Who knows.

It's the whole "Elincia has to be raised in secret" thing. Yeah, Elincia's parents were still alive just in general, but she couldn't be around them because of the inheritance conflict. If that wasn't an issue, she would probably have been raised by her own parents rather than Geoffrey and Lucia's parents.

It's not said that she was raised solely on Geoffrey and Lucia's mother's milk, that's true, but the important part is that the game stated they are milk siblings.

Don't forget that Lucina's mom in FE13 suggests a wet nurse too. Sully as mother directly states the milk part.

This is taken from Sully being the mother because they're all the same.

Sully

She needs milk, Chrom. Not mothers. She can be wet-nursed like the rest of House Ylisse. Hell, you and Lissa turned out fine, didn't you?! Lucina is a strong child; she takes after her father. The Brand in her left eye proves it. And I'll not let you be the only one to set a strong example.

No matter who the mother is, they suggest a wet nurse despite being alive. Though the reason here is because they'll be gone from Lucina physically. Being apart from Elincia is the same case for Elincia's parents but for a different reason.

Yeah, I mean I grew up with three girls because our parents were super-super close, and I think of them as siblings.

But that's just my experience, and there's no reason Elincia or Geoffrey had to have the same experience. It's entirely possible that Elincia spent way more time with Lucia than with Geoffrey. I mean we're talking about a princess who grew up in secret, not a typical, modern suburban family. Their daily schedules may have been so that Elincia didn't develop the same relationship with Geoffrey that she did with Lucia.

Though even if that's not true, the childhood friend romance thing is a cliche in anime/manga/jrpg's. It might be weird to me, but it's not weird in that cultural norm.

No, you're right. It doesn't mean Elincia and Geoffrey have to have the same relationship--I don't have personal experience of other siblings other than real ones and the really close sibling bond with my best friend.

It's fantastical in nature. I thought I read that childhood friend romance, even when they get older, is not as common as in fiction because the children are more likely to treat each other as siblings rather than prospective romantic partners. That information doesn't stop people from having fantasies just because, hey, if it could happen, it would be awesome for some.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Dual Dragons

[Sunwoo]

Elincia just looks younger to me. She's smaller than both of them too. And Geoffrey and Lucia are much more experienced politicians and warriors. Elincia isn't. I don't see how Geoffrey can be younger than Elincia, who looks the same age as Ike, imo, and be as experienced and respected a leader as he is.

Merely looking younger isn't enough, Ana, nor is being smaller. To use myself as an example, I'm 4'10" and still get asked if I want children's menus at restaurants. But I'm a good deal older than several people on this site -- some of whom probably look older than and are definitely taller than me. Even some of my friends who are of reasonable height often get mistaken for being younger than they are.

As for Geoffrey being "as experienced and respected a leader as he is", keep in mind that FE is a fantasy setting and not all ages and stuff are always realistic. And it's actually less ridiculous than some of the other age ranges I've seen in fantasy settings. Or if you don't like that idea maybe House Delbray's prestige played a role in how "accomplished" they are.

[Magical Glace]

Elincia just looks younger to me. She's smaller than both of them too. And Geoffrey and Lucia are much more experienced politicians and warriors. Elincia isn't. I don't see how Geoffrey can be younger than Elincia, who looks the same age as Ike, imo, and be as experienced and respected a leader as he is. I mean, he's a prepromoted Paladin and is a general even in PoR. I always felt that he was in his early 20s in PoR, with Lucia maybe three years older. She looks to be in her mid twenties to me.

...Well, that's a weird idea.

EDIT: Jave: I didn't see any of that even in RD. Elincia treats Geoffrey pretty formally there, as far as I could tell. "You are surely my finest and most faithful knight." Yeah. To me, the pairing was pretty out of nowhere, though a lack of proper supports in RD definitely didn't help anything.

Elincia was also sheltered her whole life.

Geoffrey and Lucia didn't have to be. Of course they'd be more expirienced

[Anacybele]

Hm, I suppose so then. But I still find Geoffrey x Elincia weird because I always felt that Elincia thought of Geoffrey like that big brother that a little girl looks up to and loves more than just about any other family member. Barring Lucia in Elincia's case, she would love her equally.

EDIT: Elincia WAS trained in swordfighting while she was being raised though.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Anacybele

[Irysa]

You know to be totally honest, I (shock, horror) agree with Ana that Geoffrey and Elincia's interest in each other overall felt a bit one sided. Not that I think that gives any grounds to Ike x Elincia, but that pairing has always sat with me as more of a marriage of necessity thing where Elincia needs a husband and Geoffrey is the most fitting suitor and she is fond of him (although not to that extent) so it's the best choice to make for Crimea. And there is a huge precedent for Elincia putting Crimea before her own feelings so...

Also, you may all want to do a little reading on the concept of a romantic friendship because that's also how I feel about Lucia x Elincia. In general a lot of yuri pairings in Japan fit into this category.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Irysa

[Anacybele]

Yeah, that's exactly how I (like to) view Elincia's marriage to Geoffrey. That she chose to go with him because Ike is gone (damn it Ike, you had a shot at a beautiful, loving, and cute princess) and Geoffrey is her next best choice since he really cares about her and all. Political and arranged marriages were a common thing in medieval times, so I wouldn't even be surprised if Geoffrey and Elincia were actually betrothed from birth. I feel Elincia might've been falling for Ike regardless of the game's language (the localization just emphasized it more), but either she and Ike just couldn't work out for some reason or Ike simply didn't fall for her (again, damn it Ike). So she settled for Geoffrey.

I guess Geoffrey might feel hurt that she loved Ike and not him in this case, but hey, heartbreak happens. And it's happened in FE too. See Catria or Cordelia (until she's married, that is). It's not an easy thing to deal with either, trust me...

Edited February 26, 2015 by Anacybele

[Magical Glace]

Once again, being betrothed from birth isn't something I'd expect from a secret princess.

[Just call me AL]

You know to be totally honest, I (shock, horror) agree with Ana that Geoffrey and Elincia's interest in each other overall felt a bit one sided.

I dunno. In their A support, Elincia does ask Geoffrey to never leave her side at the least. That could be seen as an indication that it isn't one-sided.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Just call me AL

[Radiant head]

I can see how Geoffrey's love can be seen as one-sided, but honestly I think that's just because Elincia is way more of a main character than Geoffrey is, so Geoffrey is more defined by his relationship to Elincia, while Elincia as a main character is more defined by how she's dealing with the actual storylines in PoR and RD than how she feels about Geoffrey.

If Geoffrey and Elincia swapped genders, I doubt people would say the same thing.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Radiant head

[Anacybele]

I dunno. In their A support, Elincia does ask Geoffrey to never leave her side at the least. That could be seen as an indication that it isn't one-sided.

She would ask that of Lucia too, I'm pretty sure.

I can see how Geoffrey's love can be seen as one-sided, but honestly I think that's just because Elincia is way more of a main character than Geoffrey is, so Geoffrey is more defined by his relationship to Elincia, while Elincia as a main character is more defined by how she's dealing with the actual storylines in PoR and RD than how she feels about Geoffrey.

If Geoffrey and Elincia swapped genders, I doubt people would say the same thing.

That doesn't really matter. Elincia can still show through supports or something that she loves Geoffrey just as he does her. I mean, Eliwood is a main character in FE7, but he outright tells Ninian that he loves her in their A support. But we don't ever see Elincia hinting at such towards Geoffrey. We just see that she cares a lot about him, whether it's as a best friend, a big brother, or whatever.

Also, Elincia actually mentions Ike in her death quotes more than anyone else, even in RD, and I feel someone like her would mention the person she loves if she's about to die or thinks she's about to die. What's more, if she dies in the chapter where she disarms herself in RD, she asks Ike to look after Crimea. Not Geoffrey, Ike. And Geoffrey is present at this time. I would think that Elincia would only ask this of the man she loves (I use the term loosely here) and trusts the most with the country's safety. Geoffrey is right there and is a noble she trusts, so why didn't she say this to him? I'd have thought she would have, to be honest. I was pleasantly surprised to see that she asks Ike instead. Then there's her death quote in Part 4 Endgame. "My noble Ike, all your plans..."

My noble Ike... Omigosh, that made me squee.

But then again, this could just be more of NoA's teasing that wasn't actually in the original script. >.>

Edited February 26, 2015 by Anacybele

[Radiant head]

That doesn't really matter. Elincia can still show through supports or something that she loves Geoffrey just as he does her. I mean, Eliwood is a main character in FE7, but he outright tells Ninian that he loves her in their A support. But we don't ever see Elincia hinting at such towards Geoffrey. We just see that she cares a lot about him, whether it's as a best friend, a big brother, or whatever.

Um except we do, just not as much as vice versa.

[Anacybele]

Proof? I've yet to see any real indication that Elincia loves Geoffrey as more than just a friend or brother figure. I've seen their supports too, just to clarify.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Anacybele

[Radiant head]

That's the indication I got from their support, so I guess this isn't going to go anywhere now. It has more reciprocation than Ike/Elincia, at least.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Radiant head

[Anacybele]

To you. I got more romantic vibes from Ike x Elincia, personally. And this was before I actually decided I liked the pairing. Those vibes just started out my preference for it.

[Irysa]

Well that support conversation is written in way intended to imply a romantic relationship that wasn't there in the original script. So that's hardly surprising.

[Delphi Sage]

Chapter 24 of FE9 has Elincia begging Lucia and Bastian, her other two childhood friends, to have her army repel a large-scale siege on Castle Delbray; both against their wishes and when pushing a deadline to meet up with the Gallian army around a country occupied by Daein's best and brightest. I remind you that their inferior holding force for Daein was able to create fear within the Begnion forces when they trapped them inside their keep.

The only people Elincia can support with are Ike and Geoffrey. Geoffrey can only support with her and Callil, and the latter because Callil initiated the ordeal.

Chapter 2-3 of FE10 has Elincia hesitating to give Geoffrey his signature Brave Lance, out of fear for what it would do to his reputation by going all-out on his own countrymen. The same chapter has Geoffrey saying he wishes as many rebels at Felirae spared for negotiation purposes, and that it was "Her Majesty" who wished for this. The previous chapter had Geoffrey wanting to mobilize in full force to completely rout them.

Finally, in the Endgame, Elincia says that Geoffrey is Renning's new competitor for keeping her safe and happy.

[Anacybele]

So? How does any of that indicate romance? Elincia wouldn't hesitate to rescue Geoffrey for any reason. If I were her, I would've ordered the same thing. It only means that she cares a lot for him, not that she's in love with him.

She actually supports with Ike a bit faster than Geoffrey in PoR. Also, Geoffrey and Elincia were both originally going to have more support options.

Again, fearing for his reputation is something any good friend of his would feel in that case. I write a close friend fearing for Frederick's reputation in my second Frederick x Avatar fic. But they're not a couple, my Avatar is married to Frederick.

Renning's new competitor for top dog in the army. Nothing more there.

Sorry, but I still don't see it.

I also notice that my mention of Elincia's RD death quotes has gone disregarded.

But really, even if I had a say in it, I wouldn't delete Geoffrey x Elincia from the game. I know the pairing has fans. I would just add Ike x Elincia as an option as well for the rest of us that like that pairing more.

[Delphi Sage]

You're free to imagine that, as we have stated many, MANY times. What you are NOT allowed to do, however, is paint a picture of their relationship ending up like Hardin/Nyna, and then FORCING that image onto us. Especially when you go on about how the writers sucked for not allowing enough options, yet refuse to consider either AU or Death of the Author an option.

Also, what do you mean by "support speeds"? FE9 has Geoffrey/Elincia's B and A supports unlocked at literally the same time, while Ike still has to wait a whole map for each of his. And FE10, as we all know, is an absolute mess when it comes to supports. Though I will mention that Elincia lacks a bond with Ike but has one with Geoffrey if you didn't transfer FE9 supports.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Delphi Sage

[Anacybele]

I'm not trying to force anything onto anyone though, only explain how I feel Ike x Elincia was quite reasonable with or without the localization teasing.

I looked at the chart of supports SF has and according to the formula there, Ike and Elincia support slightly faster. But maybe I miscalculated.

And I DO consider AU an option. I believe that there are multiple timelines/dimensions due to Awakening, and that Ike x Elincia should happen in one of them. I have no idea what this "Death of the Author" is though.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Anacybele

[timehopper]

So where the idea of Geoffrey x Elincia came from, I'll never know.

Supports, endings, and the fact that it's explicitly stated that Geoffrey is and has always been in love with Elincia.

I've given it some thought (and have written some meta about this in the past) but Ike/Elincia makes sense as a pairing if PoR was a standalone game. But because RD exists, and characters require development...

I actually quite like the script changes in PoR trying to hint at Ike/Elincia, if only because it makes her development in Radiant Dawn a little better in hindsight. Growing out of an old crush can really help a girl move forward, yanno. Speaking from experience here, of course.

[Dual Dragons]

Well Elincia comes at Chapter 26. Elincia only has two chapters (26, which is forced, and 27) to actually be deployed. Ike and Geoffrey get their A's after two chapters.
You can argue that Ike/Elincia gets to B faster than Elincia/Geoffrey gets to B, but you can't argue either one gets to A faster. They both do at two chapters.

In RD, Elincia is reported to have the fastest with Geoffrey than Ike.

"Death of the Author" is a term meaning after the author sends their work out, it is no longer in the author's hands and that the author and the writing are now separate entities. Meaning: though the author can say that the story means this message, the readers are free to say the author's story means that message. Readers are free to have their own interpretations from the author's work and it shouldn't matter the author's background, history, philosophical views, or whatnot to determine what the story means.

As far as I'm understanding him, he's saying you reject "Death of the Author" so anyone can be free to interpret the story as they wish but you still go ahead with your interpretation of the story and try to shove it down others' throats.

[Delphi Sage]

I retract my statement about support speeds in FE9. Nevermind, I checked Chapter 28, and Elincia's usable in the base. My argument stands. Heck, from my checkup, I think Geoffrey's inaccessible for Chapter 28, too. Huh.

Beyond that, DualDragons is interpreting/speaking for me fine.

Incoming off-topic accusation in t-minus 10 posts.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Delphi Sage