RJWalker Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Archanea and Elibe can't be on the same continent and aren't linked through the Dragon's Gate. They're completely separate. Here's my reasoning. The dragons on the other side of the Dragon's Gate are able to maintain dragon form indefinitely.Therefore the Dragon's Gate can't lead to Archanea because dragons on Archanea need to assume Manakete form or they go mad. People sometimes say that the Dragon's Gate is a portal through both space and time but there is mention of this anywhere. Nils and Ninian mention that the air in Elibe is very different from the air from beyond the Dragon's Gate. The Ending Winter was a worldwide event. It affected the whole world, as Jahn says in FE6. If the Ending Winter affected the climate of the whole world, why would the air in Elibe be different than the air from beyond the Dragon's Gate? This is pretty much proof that the Dragon's Gate links to a new world, not another continent on the same world. The similarities between the backstories of Archanea and Eilbe are easy to explain. Much like the rest of FE6 being extremely similar to FE1/3, from the characters to the story, the backstories being near identical can be attributed to FE6 being Intelligent System's first game after the departure of Shouzo Kaga, the guy who pretty much handled everything related to the story previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 my logic explaining the descrepencies between the Elibe-Archenea simularities/continuity errors is that it leads to pre degeneration Archenea. In other words, the Scouring dosen't cause the degeneration that Xane mentions in New Mystery. It also explains why every dragon tribe except the Earth Dragons were willing to accept Manakete form. Note that there are NO Earth Dragons in Elibe.If Magvel is Elibe's Gaiden then Myrrh is possibly an Elibean Earth Dragon. As such, the Dragons that fled from Elibe reconized what was going on when the Degeneration disaster started, and the Earth Dragons which were likely native to Archenea didn't and thus refused to become Manaketes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Archanea and Elibe can't be on the same continent and aren't linked through the Dragon's Gate. They're completely separate. Here's my reasoning. The dragons on the other side of the Dragon's Gate are able to maintain dragon form indefinitely.Therefore the Dragon's Gate can't lead to Archanea because dragons on Archanea need to assume Manakete form or they go mad. People sometimes say that the Dragon's Gate is a portal through both space and time but there is mention of this anywhere. Nils and Ninian mention that the air in Elibe is very different from the air from beyond the Dragon's Gate. The Ending Winter was a worldwide event. It affected the whole world, as Jahn says in FE6. If the Ending Winter affected the climate of the whole world, why would the air in Elibe be different than the air from beyond the Dragon's Gate? This is pretty much proof that the Dragon's Gate links to a new world, not another continent on the same world. The similarities between the backstories of Archanea and Eilbe are easy to explain. Much like the rest of FE6 being extremely similar to FE1/3, from the characters to the story, the backstories being near identical can be attributed to FE6 being Intelligent System's first game after the departure of Shouzo Kaga, the guy who pretty much handled everything related to the story previously. Dragons used to be able to maintain their form indefinitely in Archanea. They only took on human forms because of the degradation. The Dragon's Gate doesn't need to be a portal through time, Elibe just has to take place far in the past relative to Archanea, before the degradation began. And, forgive me if I'm wrong, but there's nothing to suggest the ending winter was so cataclysmic it effected the entire planet beyond the assumptions of the people on one continent, who would naturally assume it effects the entire world because, as far as they know, their continent is the entire world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Dragons used to be able to maintain their form indefinitely in Archanea. They only took on human forms because of the degradation. The Dragon's Gate doesn't need to be a portal through time, Elibe just has to take place far in the past relative to Archanea, before the degradation began. And, forgive me if I'm wrong, but there's nothing to suggest the ending winter was so cataclysmic it effected the entire planet beyond the assumptions of the people on one continent, who would naturally assume it effects the entire world because, as far as they know, their continent is the entire world. If you want to accept the theory that the Ending Winter is the cause of the degenration of the dragon tribes, then the effects of the Ending Winter need to be worldwide. If Elibe and Archanea are on the same planet and the Ending WInter only affected Elibe, why would the dragons on Archanea be affected? For Archanea and Elibe to be on the same planet, the Ending Winter needs to be a planet-wide catastrophe. Otherwise there is no link between the two. If the Ending Winter wasn't planetwide, then it wouldn't affect dragons living on another continent on the same planet. Hence, the Dragon's Gate has to lead to a different world, not a different continent on the same world. But since this different world allows dragons to maintain their dragon form and there is nothing to suggest that the Dragon's Gate is a portal through time, not just space, this other world is likely not Archanea either. It is just a process of elimination. If Elibe and Archanea are on the same planet and the Ending Winter isn't planetwide then the only possible link is rendered meaningless as there would be explanation for the degeneration of the dragon tribes on Archanea. Hence, Archanea and Elibe exist in completely unrelated universes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 In other words, Akaneia isn't beyond the gate, if Akaneia dragons degenerated through the Ending winter. But Akaneia can be beyond it if the degeneration was caused by something else. Akaneia and Elibe can be connected via the gate, if they aren't in the same world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) If you want to accept the theory that the Ending Winter is the cause of the degenration of the dragon tribes, then the effects of the Ending Winter need to be worldwide. If Elibe and Archanea are on the same planet and the Ending WInter only affected Elibe, why would the dragons on Archanea be affected? For Archanea and Elibe to be on the same planet, the Ending Winter needs to be a planet-wide catastrophe. Otherwise there is no link between the two. If the Ending Winter wasn't planetwide, then it wouldn't affect dragons living on another continent on the same planet. Hence, the Dragon's Gate has to lead to a different world, not a different continent on the same world. But since this different world allows dragons to maintain their dragon form and there is nothing to suggest that the Dragon's Gate is a portal through time, not just space, this other world is likely not Archanea either. It is just a process of elimination. If Elibe and Archanea are on the same planet and the Ending Winter isn't planetwide then the only possible link is rendered meaningless as there would be explanation for the degeneration of the dragon tribes on Archanea. Hence, Archanea and Elibe exist in completely unrelated universes. But really there's no reason why the Ending Winter is what caused the degeneration. Sure it'd make sense as a theory but it's still just a theory. The whole idea of the degeneration was made and implemented long before the Ending Winter was conceived. Initially there was absolutely no explanation and since then we've been given one possible explanation. If we use your logic to come to the conclusion that they are completely separate, then you still face the problem of the degeneration being completely unexplained, which was the logic used to debunk the fact that they are related. Essentially the theory is only refutable based on the evidence of another theory which is far from decisive. And even given that I don't see anything in your deduction that prevents Archania and Elibe being on the same world but the Dragon's Gate leading somewhere else. Edited February 26, 2015 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 But really there's no reason why the Ending Winter is what caused the degeneration. Sure it'd make sense as a theory but it's still just a theory. The whole idea of the degeneration was made and implemented long before the Ending Winter was conceived. Initially there was absolutely no explanation and since then we've been given one possible explanation. If we use your logic to come to the conclusion that they are completely separate, then you still face the problem of the degeneration being completely inexplained, which was the logic used to debunk the fact that they are related. Essentially the theory is only refutable based on the evidence of another theory which is far from decisive. And even given that I don't see anything in your deduction that prevents Archania and Elibe being on the same world but the Dragon's Gate leading somewhere else. Without the Ending Winter being the possible common link, there is no reason to ever even assume that ELibe and Archanea are on the same planet beyong 'well, they could be'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I think they aren't in the same world. I don't think anyone here thinks both the Ending Winter/Degeneration thing and the Akaneia beyond the gate thing. I prefer the latter, but hey. What Jotari is saying is your argument makes no sense beyond "these two theories can't be simultaneous" when I think no one here believes both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Without the Ending Winter being the possible common link, there is no reason to ever even assume that ELibe and Archanea are on the same planet beyong 'well, they could be'. Nah. We'd still have Anna, Jake and Shanty Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 you can't possibly tell me that bors isn't merely the second coming of our lord doga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 And Deke isn't just Ogma in a blue suit. Marcus and Jagen are brothers and Rutger and Navarre aren't related I could keep pointing out all the FE6 characters with resemblance to Archenea but I'd be here all night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) And Deke isn't just Ogma in a blue suit. Marcus and Jagen are brothers and Rutger and Navarre aren't related I could keep pointing out all the FE6 characters with resemblance to Archenea but I'd be here all night All games have a little bit of this but FE6 is the most obvious one. Though I'd put Bord instead of Barst. I mean, the starting team is near identical: Lord, Paladin, 2 Cavaliers, 1 Knight and 1 Archer. No Caeda though. And the chapters also begin the exact same way. Bandits attack, destroy one village, one character runs to your party and requests help and then the boss moves onto the gate on the second turn. There was a topic here about this that went much more in-depth than me but its really old and wasn't finished so I can't find it. Edited February 26, 2015 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Its one of the Many reasons I don't care for FE6. Tho its not my least favorite FE its definitely among them. That's a topic for another time however I do find it hallarious that FE 7 is my favorite FE while I dont care for Binding Blade at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Seeing all those portraits together is amazing XD BTW, I'm not sure if I'm reading wrong, but someone said there's no proof that the Dragon's Gate connects different spaces and times? What about what Nils says in Victory and Death? When we passed through this chasm in space and time, many of us were lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 well, this makes Elibe an addition to the confusing timeline spot list. Not as bad as Magvel or Tellius(espescilly Magvel) but still confusing. Though this make it possible for the degeneration and the Ending winter to be the same event. Dragons flee thru time portal, arrive in prdegeneration Archenea say 3000 years earier, assume its a differnt world due to being on a differnt continent, scouring occurs again with a new ending winter to match, thus degeneration occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukathesoldier Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 With all the similarities I like to think they are just alternate universes...which makes Roy an alternate universe version of Marth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 So thats why he's a clone in Smash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonelyVoxel Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 So thats why he's a clone in Smash Roy as alternate costume DLC for Marth in Smash 4 confirmed It also kinda makes sense that Elibe is AU Archanea since you get so many characters in both games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 My headcanon which is most likely bullcrap is that there are 2 FE universes. One (which I call the Kagaverse) features Archenea, Valentia, and Jugdral, and a second one containing Magvel, Elibe, and Tellius. travel between the two is possible thru the dragon's/Outrealm gate but both are completely seperate universes otherwise. Alternate versions of these two verses exist to allow for every possible pairing and headcanon to be canon. In other words, no 2 players play thru the exact same events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonelyVoxel Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 My headcanon which is most likely bullcrap is that there are 2 FE universes. One (which I call the Kagaverse) features Archenea, Valentia, and Jugdral, and a second one containing Magvel, Elibe, and Tellius. travel between the two is possible thru the dragon's/Outrealm gate but both are completely seperate universes otherwise. Alternate versions of these two verses exist to allow for every possible pairing and headcanon to be canon. In other words, no 2 players play thru the exact same events. Alternate universe theory solves everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Alternate universe theory solves everything. Always has always will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misses Elise-chan! Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Theory, Robin is a descendant of Chris. Chris: I believe you'll ascend as king of Altea, and govern the world. By then, you'll probably have children too... I am certain your children will be both kind and brave. Marth: Thank you for your kind future. And what will you be doing, then? Chris: When that time comes... I believe I'll still be serving you by your side. And, if I happen to have children of my own... I am sure my children will fight for the future of Altea, as well. Marth: My children and your children... It would be lovely if they could get along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Theory, Robin is a descendant of Chris. Chris: I believe you'll ascend as king of Altea, and govern the world. By then, you'll probably have children too... I am certain your children will be both kind and brave. Marth: Thank you for your kind future. And what will you be doing, then? Chris: When that time comes... I believe I'll still be serving you by your side. And, if I happen to have children of my own... I am sure my children will fight for the future of Altea, as well. Marth: UN My children and your children... It would be lovely if they could get along. funny I actually made a seperate thread to disscuss this, but I added Mark to the mix in the family tree as well. Edited February 27, 2015 by randomsonicvideos123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misses Elise-chan! Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) That means Morgan forgot her or his name and went back in time through the Outrealms to Elibe before the time of Awakening using the name Mark. Or maybe in an alternate universe, she was sent to Elibe instead of Archanea. Maybe his real name isn't actually Morgan, but Mark and he just remembered the name of his twin sister Morgan instead after losing his memory. Edited February 27, 2015 by Rabbattack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Theory, Robin is a descendant of Chris. Chris: I believe you'll ascend as king of Altea, and govern the world. By then, you'll probably have children too... I am certain your children will be both kind and brave. Marth: Thank you for your kind future. And what will you be doing, then? Chris: When that time comes... I believe I'll still be serving you by your side. And, if I happen to have children of my own... I am sure my children will fight for the future of Altea, as well. Marth: My children and your children... It would be lovely if they could get along. Given that, I can't help but entertain the notion that after the events of New Mystery, Chris went wandering and accidentally founded a cult of evil dragon worshipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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