FE8 Skill Ideas?

[ErrantDShepherd]

K...

The thief based ideas I have range from physical, to purely attack based. These are base ideas...feel free to tweak them or fiddle with the mechanics.

Physical

-Loot: steal a weapon? Based on combo of str, SPD, and con/build? Resulting in need for bulkier thieves perhaps?

-Pillage: Defeat of enemy has luck and/or skill based chance of taking their equipped weapon up on their defeat?

-Mug: physical attack with a chance at stealing at same time. Decided by combination of SPD, str, skl, con perhaps? (Like... Can't mug units too much larger or stronger than your own unit? Bulkier thieves again?)

Non-attack based

-pickpocket: stealing gold ala Judgral... Gives thief something more thievery based to do if unable to steal an item/weapon.

...I dunno, interesting ideas? Crap? Too hard to implement? ...however you find them, I'll be very interested to see what you can make work with these skill suggestions.

Edited February 26, 2015 by TheErrantShepherd

[Brendor]

K...

The thief based ideas I have range from physical, to purely attack based. These are base ideas...feel free to tweak them or fiddle with the mechanics.

Physical

-Loot: steal a weapon? Based on combo of str, SPD, and con/build? Resulting in need for bulkier thieves perhaps?

yes I thought about doing something like this and a few hacks already have done it so it's possible I just don't know how hard it'll be

-Pillage: Defeat of enemy has luck and/or skill based chance of taking their equipped weapon up on their defeat?

I think Pi did something similar? Not sure how difficult that would be; probably not too bad

-Mug: physical attack with a chance at stealing at same time. Decided by combination of SPD, str, skl, con perhaps? (Like... Can't mug units too much larger or stronger than your own unit? Bulkier thieves again?)

this kind of confuses me because stealing requires the player to manually select the item to steal so I'm not sure how you'd want to designate a 'stolen' item unless you mean to have that menu AND attack which is a disaster waiting to happen

Non-attack based

-pickpocket: stealing gold ala Judgral... Gives thief something more thievery based to do if unable to steal an item/weapon.

units don't have their own personal gold count like they did in 4 so this confuses me also

...I dunno, interesting ideas? Crap? Too hard to implement? ...however you find them, I'll be very interested to see what you can make work with these skill suggestions.

Comments in bold

[Robert Stewart]

What about a skill that increases the activation rate of other Skills?

[ErrantDShepherd]

On loot and pillage:

Cool... Glad those make sense.

On mug:

I think the way I pictured would be a target based command like steal, in that you choose what you want and then the success is reliant on the formula, with an attack linked into the command... Possibly very complicated to get the attack and thievery to work together.

...a possible variant would be an attack command with a certain chance to steal something at random? Whether item, weapon, gold, up to you on that...

Pickpocket:

...yeah, I guess that would be an extra thing to program in... Although I guess a random formula based on a units characteristics/level could result in the gold amount? ...or more complicated, have each unit possess a set amount of gold like FE4? ...I think Arch or someone had the idea of having stealable sacks of gold, ala FE8... So if this separate command doesn't work I guess that is always an option.

Edited February 26, 2015 by TheErrantShepherd

[Brendor]

What about a skill that increases the activation rate of other Skills?

That's just adding a number to another number, but I guess that's really what most skills are

On mug:

I think the way I pictured would be a target based command like steal, in that you choose what you want and then the success is reliant on the formula, with an attack linked into the command... Possibly very complicated to get the attack and thievery to work together.

...a possible variant would be an attack command with a certain chance to steal something at random? Whether item, weapon, gold, up to you on that...

Pickpocket:

...yeah, I guess that would be an extra thing to program in... Although I guess a random formula based on a units characteristics/level could result in the gold amount? ...or more complicated, have each unit possess a set amount of gold like FE4? ...I think Arch or someone had the idea of having stealable sacks of gold, ala FE8... So if this separate command doesn't work I guess that is always an option.

The mug idea is probably too complicated and prone to glitches but I guess I could say like "use Mug to steal the last stealable item in the enemy's inventory and attack at half damage".

As for the gold, I could write up some formula and give units a "net worth" so to speak but how would that go? lvl * 50 or something?

[fengaridotdll]

Or galeforce?

In order for it to not be as broken as it is in Awakening, it would need to only be a full movement range Canto as opposed to a second whole turn for the unit with it

Then again, Pierce did exist and was rather broken, so...

[ErrantDShepherd]

That's just adding a number to another number, but I guess that's really what most skills are

The mug idea is probably too complicated and prone to glitches but I guess I could say like "use Mug to steal the last stealable item in the enemy's inventory and attack at half damage".

As for the gold, I could write up some formula and give units a "net worth" so to speak but how would that go? lvl * 50 or something?

I like the sound of your variation on mug, makes it more distinct from the other steal commands.

As for the formula... Yeah 50 per level isn't a bad base... Maybe some sort of modifier for different class or con/build types? ...like bigger units have more gold?(more risk too as bigger units likely hit your thief harder?) Or... Classes like bishop/priest, knights, cavs, the richer classes basically give out more gold? ...probably too complicated, but possibly interesting.

Edited February 26, 2015 by TheErrantShepherd

[Brendor]

Aren't the "bigger guys" usually the ones that thieves can dodge easier?

[ErrantDShepherd]

True... Bigger guys in my mind included Mercs and Mounted units too though. Also even if the thief is more likely to dodge based on SPD advantage, if he gets hit by those units it is gonna hurt.

Added idea on possibly class gold distinctions... Possibly again too complicated, but its fun throwing out ideas out there to think about what might or might not work. :D

Or... Classes like bishop/priest, knights, cavs, the richer classes basically give out more gold? ...probably too complicated, but possibly interesting.

Edited February 26, 2015 by TheErrantShepherd

[Soen]

- I think Deadeye could be a good skill. It doubles the user's Accuracy and puts the enemy to Sleep. I loved it in RD and IMO it isn't overpowered(lolImpaleandAstra).

- Another one I liked from RD was Corrosion, but I don't know how hard it could be to code in the game.

- FE13 Vengeance.

I know the following aren't procing skills, but IMO they'd be awsome skills to have:

- Shade and Provoke(Shade would be perfect for an Assassin), but I think that would require messing with the enemy's AI to attack one unit instead of another.

- Charisma, Hex/Anathema or any other skill which raises nearby allies' Hit and Avoid. I'd love a version of those skill which buffs the whole team, similar to Leadership Stars in FE5, and I'd love even more to see it spammed on the enemy team(basically FE5 Chapter 22).

-An innate damage bonus on some kind of units, for example a mage that can always do x2 damage on armored units.

- Gamble/Parity as they were Tellius games, with the option of either doing a normal attack or doing one with the effect of the skill active.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Soen

[Brendor]

- I think Deadeye could be a good skill. It doubles the user's Accuracy and puts the enemy to Sleep. I loved it in RD and IMO it isn't overpowered(lolImpaleandAstra).

In RD it also tripled the damage iirc

- Another one I liked from RD was Corrosion, but I don't know how hard it could be to code in the game.

did it

- FE13 Vengeance.

did it

I know the following aren't procing skills, but IMO they'd be awsome skills to have:

- Shade and Provoke(Shade would be perfect for an Assassin), but I think that would require messing with the enemy's AI to attack one unit instead of another.

it would require fucking with the AI which I really don't know much about

- Charisma, Hex/Anathema or any other skill which raises nearby allies' Hit and Avoid. I'd love a version of those skill which buffs the whole team, similar to Leadership Stars in FE5, and I'd love even more to see it spammed on the enemy team(basically FE5 Chapter 22).

I'm going to do a line of "in range" at some point

-An innate damage bonus on some kind of units, for example a mage that can always do x2 damage on armored units.

like Slayer?

- Gamble/Parity as they were Tellius games, with the option of either doing a normal attack or doing one with the effect of the skill active.

unit menus are a bitch

True... Bigger guys in my mind included Mercs and Mounted units too though. Also even if the thief is more likely to dodge based on SPD advantage, if he gets hit by those units it is gonna hurt.

Added idea on possibly class gold distinctions... Possibly again too complicated, but its fun throwing out ideas out there to think about what might or might not work. :D

It's not too too too complicated I just need an actual final draft idea to work off of if I'm doing that

[Soen]

In RD it also tripled the damage iirc

You're right, what I wrote is the effect in PoR. In RD it triples damage and puts the enemy to sleep(the latter is kinda useless, since you've probably already killed the enemy).

like Slayer?

Yeah, like Beastslayer/Dragonslayer. I said x2 damage(maybe x1.5 is better) because I feel that x3 would be OP. That kind of enemy would pose no chance against your unit.

[Brendor]

So deadeye is pretty much going to be the same thing as sure shot really; in almost all cases, doubling Hit will make it => 100

I know FE Girls was able to change the effectiveness coefficient so doing what you suggested is rather simple, we'd just need to figure out what is effective against what and by how much

[Soen]

The reason why I like Deadeye is that you put the enemy to sleep, not the increased Accuracy or the tripled damage. If I wanted overkill damage I'd have said Aether. By putting the enemy to sleep you secure the kill by using one of your other units(a low-levelled one, for example) or you can forget about that enemy for a couple of turns and concentrate your attacks on other enemies if you're being swarmed by them.

With other status conditions is different, as Silence only effects magic users and Berserk is really useful only when used from afar. Alfred though told me he's working with new status conditions, similar to the one that Uther has in Chapter 7(iirc) of FE7x, which halves Speed and Skill. A version of Deadeye with new statuses instead of Sleep would be really cool.

[Brendor]

Oh inflict effects is something I'm working on

[ErrantDShepherd]

On pickpocket:

Yeah makes total sense. The base idea of level x 50 gold is probably either good enough, or a great place to start.

---

Statuses are cool... Not familiar with vengeance yet, but corrosion is a very useful skill.

[Brendor]

I guess for enemies that pickpocket, your total gold count goes down which actually works out good for me; i could load the gold value and if the thief is an enemy, subtract it from the total, if it's a player, add it.

From there I could make an array of u8's that correspond to the class ID of the victim of different numbers to multiply the level by going off of you idea of different classes having different net worths . A bandit is poor so he might only have 15g per level whereas a social knight might have 30.

I like idea collaborations

Edited February 26, 2015 by Brendor

[ErrantDShepherd]

Awesome, yeah I like brainstorming/collaborating too. That sounds pretty cool would love to see it in action at some point! :D

Edited February 26, 2015 by TheErrantShepherd

[Brendor]

I had another thought; what if after stealing something, you have the option to either keep it, or just get the gold value if you were to sell it. cuz you know, rogues have ways

[ErrantDShepherd]

That sounds cool, and incredibly useful. Maybe as you may have implied that ability should be exclusive to rogues? ...as yet another reason to level up your thief?

...maybe a passive skill called Black Market or something? >.>

[Arch]

I didn't really know about this until you mentioned it on FEU, lol. Shows how little I visit Serenes at this point.

But shit this is actually quite awesome.

I guess I'll throw some ideas out?

Dominion: Doubles weapon triangle advantage bonuses, not penalties.

Charge: Adds +1 to weapon MT for every two tiles traveled while moving that turn.

Entropy: Grants AVO +25 when targeted by a physical weapon type (for ze mages).

Reversion: Reverses opponents avoid boosts.

Toxotai: Allows an archer to counter-attack after dodging at melee range.

Aegis: Negates damage from attacks at 3+ range. (Might need a different name?)

Have Armsthrift and Cancel been mentioned? Imbue that heals based on RES value?

There totally has to be an FE8 prequel/sequel now with skills.

[Brendor]

That sounds cool, and incredibly useful. Maybe as you may have implied that ability should be exclusive to rogues? ...as yet another reason to level up your thief?

...maybe a passive skill called Black Market or something? >.>

Yeah so if you steal a gem, you can get the cash immediately instead of having to shlep it to the store or if you just want money lol

If I modify the steal system I could let assassins steal too but make certain features exclusive to Rogues. It should help maintain class balance whilst adding new stuff.

I didn't really know about this until you mentioned it on FEU, lol. Shows how little I visit Serenes at this point.But shit this is actually quite awesome.I guess I'll throw some ideas out?Dominion: Doubles weapon triangle advantage bonuses, not penalties.Charge: Adds +1 to weapon MT for every two tiles traveled while moving that turn.Entropy: Grants AVO +25 when targeted by a physical weapon type (for ze mages).Reversion: Reverses opponents avoid boosts.Toxotai: Allows an archer to counter-attack after dodging at melee range.Aegis: Negates damage from attacks at 3+ range. (Might need a different name?)Have Armsthrift and Cancel been mentioned? Imbue that heals based on RES value?There totally has to be an FE8 prequel/sequel now with skills.

I talked about it on feu though..

Those all sound reasonable and yeah I made Armsthrift and Cancel already.

You should help me with events then ;)

[ErrantDShepherd]

Speaking of classes, does it seem weird to anyone else that Bandits/Brigands have no stealing abilities? ...perhaps they could work for some of those pillage/loot/mug skills as well? ...just throwing it out there...

Once again, very cool ideas being discussed. Will be following this thread and any progress you make on your own hack. :)

[linke0000000]

Having all the ideas organized in the very first post would be very helpful.

So ppl wont keep suggesting the same thing

[Blademaster!]

Could you do a skill that lets you deal more/less damage based on the amount of money you currently have?