Does anyone else....

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

FE4 is about the same as FE10 in terms of turn counts, though I can see that it might feel a bit different because of the massive maps. The maps are massive but if you're good with warp/return/dancers they really don't drag on that long. Except for Chapter 7. That's never going to be fun.

[Jotari]

FE4 is about the same as FE10 in terms of turn counts, though I can see that it might feel a bit different because of the massive maps. The maps are massive but if you're good with warp/return/dancers they really don't drag on that long. Except for Chapter 7. That's never going to be fun.

Is that actually proven? Like are there stats? Because I've always thought of the Holy War Maps as being approximately four times bigger than standard maps which would put it just over Radiant Dawn if you discount some quarters, like the sea section of Chapter 10.

[Yojinbo]

The fastest that FE4 can be done is a bit more than 160 turns, the current records for FE10 [and FE7 for that matter] are slightly above 150. Not sure about FE6 but it's probably only slightly lower as well.

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

Chiki recently posted a thread talking about clearing RD in 150 turns, and the fastest LTC I've seen of FE4 is 161 turns, but that was full recruitment and there are several places where even beyond that turns could be saved, so I would estimate the lowest turn count possible is around 150. This is all well informed speculation, so I might be wrong. Of course, there's a significant difference between LTC and casual play, so I have no idea about the turn counts of other play styles.

[Jotari]

Chiki recently posted a thread talking about clearing RD in 150 turns, and the fastest LTC I've seen of FE4 is 161 turns, but that was full recruitment and there are several places where even beyond that turns could be saved, so I would estimate the lowest turn count possible is around 150. This is all well informed speculation, so I might be wrong. Of course, there's a significant difference between LTC and casual play, so I have no idea about the turn counts of other play styles.

The fastest that FE4 can be done is a bit more than 160 turns, the current records for FE10 [and FE7 for that matter] are slightly above 150. Not sure about FE6 but it's probably only slightly lower as well.

Is that the highest turncount of all LTCs? Those are the biggest games so I'd imagine so but I could easily believe something unexpected could beat them.

[Yojinbo]

To my knowledge Horace holds the lowest turn count in FE7 at ~150. He has all maps cleared in 5 turns or less except Ch.11 and defensive maps. I don't think any of his turn counts can be improved on so his record is pretty much the best you can possibly get.

FE10 record is currently somewhere between 150 and 160 held by Chiki but it seems like he started to take another look at it with a turn count of ~150 in mind. I know for a fact that a couple of turns from his 'old' run could be shaved off so 150 [with stat transfers] is not entirely inplausible though everything below that is probably not possible.

FE6 LTC is currently worked on over at the fe6 boards. Dondon's 0% LTC of fe6 took 157 turns, with growth I'm guesstimating it to take about 140 turns.

Afaik, there is [or at least used to be] an LTC run of FE4 on nicovideo which clears the whole game within 161 turns. I never actually saw it though but since it apparently has full recruitment it's not actually the lowest possible because recruiting Altenna costs a handful of turns as does recruiting certain other units. I dunno, I'm no expert on the game but if you substract a handful of turns needed to recruit units from 161 and also the odd turn that can be saved elsewehere over the course of the run then 150 turns for FE4 doesn't seem that far off either.

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

The Nicovideo run was also limited by being an A rank run (at 161 turns, oh my god.) Because of its full recruitment nature it also went for some pairings that would be sub-optimal in incomplete recruitment, such as Azel x Aideen instead of Aideen x Claude. It also went two turns slower than minimum (even with full recruitment) in chapter 1 and one turn slower than minimum in chapter 2. Horace has thought up a bunch of strategies that would probably get the best turn count possible (like Chapter 7 master knight Leif) but I don't think a full run with those strategies has been done yet.

[General Horace]

I finished FE7 in uhh, i wanna say 170something turns? I think the only chapters that could be theoretically improved on are the prologue with a 1% crit and Erk and Serra's join chapter with a 2% crit. The reason its so high though is because a whopping 62 of those turns are defence chapters where you mostly just sit around and twiddle your thumbs, and no other game really has that, and I didn't even recruit all units (I skipped Geitz/Wallace, Farina, Harken/Karel, Karla, and Renault and technically Lucius (although he doesn't actually cost turns), but if you recruit everyone it would add about another 10 turns to that).

I don't know how much lower FE4 could get though. Altenna might cost a buttload of turns, but nobody else really does. You can recruit everyone in gen 1 without losing turns and Faval, Corple/Hannibal and maybe Sety actually costs a turn or 2 each, and Corple/Hannibal don't really count since they overlap with Altenna's recruitment. So yeah, maybe ~153 or so? I meant to theorycraft an entire run sometime but I don't think I really have the time to sink into it for a while.

EDIT: I forgot my sig existed, apparently it was 179 turns!

I think FE7's the longest turnwise by far. FE2 might be longer, I forget how many turns I finished the draft in.

EDIT2: apparently I finished the FE2 draft in 312 turns (LOL) which was the lowest, but i'm sure that could be vastly improved on considering it was my first time playing and I missed several important items and didn't have a falconknight on celica's route.

Edited March 2, 2015 by General Horace

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

I just did a tiny bit of theory crafting, so I could be completely off, but with the rescue glitch maybe the best turn count would be somewhere between 110 and 120. I try a rescue glitch ltc some time to see.

[Jotari]

I finished FE7 in uhh, i wanna say 170something turns? I think the only chapters that could be theoretically improved on are the prologue with a 1% crit and Erk and Serra's join chapter with a 2% crit. The reason its so high though is because a whopping 62 of those turns are defence chapters where you mostly just sit around and twiddle your thumbs, and no other game really has that, and I didn't even recruit all units (I skipped Geitz/Wallace, Farina, Harken/Karel, Karla, and Renault and technically Lucius (although he doesn't actually cost turns), but if you recruit everyone it would add about another 10 turns to that).

I don't know how much lower FE4 could get though. Altenna might cost a buttload of turns, but nobody else really does. You can recruit everyone in gen 1 without losing turns and Faval, Corple/Hannibal and maybe Sety actually costs a turn or 2 each, and Corple/Hannibal don't really count since they overlap with Altenna's recruitment. So yeah, maybe ~153 or so? I meant to theorycraft an entire run sometime but I don't think I really have the time to sink into it for a while.

EDIT: I forgot my sig existed, apparently it was 179 turns!

I think FE7's the longest turnwise by far. FE2 might be longer, I forget how many turns I finished the draft in.

EDIT2: apparently I finished the FE2 draft in 312 turns (LOL) which was the lowest, but i'm sure that could be vastly improved on considering it was my first time playing and I missed several important items and didn't have a falconknight on celica's route.

This is a conversation for an entire different thread but I'm curious so I can't help asking question. Is that 179 counting Hector exclusive chapters, Lyn mode and/or Gaidens?

[General Horace]

This is a conversation for an entire different thread but I'm curious so I can't help asking question. Is that 179 counting Hector exclusive chapters, Lyn mode and/or Gaidens?

it's all of Lyn Mode and Hector mode with every gaiden (except 19xx) There's a link to the thread in my sig if you're interested further.

[MCProductions]

I probaly should point out that if your like me, You won't settle for anything LESS than clearing a chapter you start in a single sitting. So that is my problem with the games length, and its more of a personal problem on my end.(I got alot going on)My problem stems from chapter length and NOT the overall game's length.

As for the LTC thing, you can't forget my ships.

[Moishe Oofnik]

When does he get the Brave axe, not that it matters considering he gets one-rounded in Chapter 1(girl of the spirt forest) by basic enemies and two rounded in the Prolouge so yeah, I would say he's useless.

And I'm not saying the game sucks, I was just curious as to why plenty of people see this as the best in the series and it sorta came out as a rant. My bad.

Its definately not my favorite but I'm not saying its a bad game

1 Rounded in a chapter where most enemy units are axe wielders while he has the best defence in 1st gen

Lex Has paragon and move he is the only unit who ustilizes the brave axe anyway

Arden isnt useless he is greatest castle gaurd and gets you the 2nd best ring at chapter 2 anyway

You probably had subs did not trigger any of the good events and worst of all

You didnt read half the games dialouge

Skiped Most if not all convos

The maps are big for a reason your goal is to sieze all castles in the region seems much more logical

There is way too much incest in this highly overrated game. And its plot is just as far fatched as Awakenings.

Better constructed plot via Conversations 2 generations and then thracia to explain even more events and the plot it self is preety good in fire emblem standards if you read half the dialouge

Incest like what incest the setting looks like medieval times cousins being married was actually common marrying your cousins is also completely optional too

P.S:Lex is the 2nd best character in the game because he is a mount that always doubles and deals alot of damage

You probably used Azel Tiltyu and Diadora and thought Dew is a combat character (I STILL THINK HE IS BEST FAVAL FATHER FUCKERS)

Paragorn son of Arathorn

Paragon*

Well lvl 20, ready for promoting, Lex had whooping 13 str and 13 defense. Not the highest by any means.

Well thats your personal playthrough lex'es average stats is what really matters (I got a blessed Tiltyu who capped mag before promotion she still sucks as a unit because she comes underleveled too late with meh growths) Here are Lex's Average Stats at 20 post promo great def and str and hp and those are Just lvl20 he gets to 30 so fast it doesnt mater

47.4 21.4 0.8 14.2 15.2 21.0 3.8 11.2

My most dependable units who can take care of "dangerous" situations like taking multiple enemy attacks at once when luring them closer etc. and overall kill everything are:

-Finn(easily the best unit in the game, stats better than Sigurds, sadly only lances but if you can chose only 1 weapon then lance is the best for that, doubles and kills everything and has huge def as well, won

every arena fight there was). Sadly lower hp at 41-ish but it's fine. Sadly he left me at chapter 4...)

You know what Lvl 20 fin has over sigurd in any stat 0.2 more speed 2.5 more luck sigurd has better stats in every single other thing Lances arent very good compared to swords in FE4

-Sigurd(kind of a no brainer I think, swords and lances for all situations, high stats everywhere, Unlike Finn though he failed at some arenas, most notably Dyuma the godly dark mage where very few passed)

He would use silver sword 90% of the times better stats the finn who is dyuma btw this isnt gaiden (insert duma refrence here)

-Aira(okay the evasion isn't always reliable and neither is astra, but she's been doing extremely well both in arena and in actual war. Over 10 defense for a myrmidon is quite silly. Arena had extreme rng astra situations. Some units in this game start with extremely high base stats)

Swordmaster are overpowered cap wise in FE4 she has low move so she is worse then 2 of the characters you just named

-Lachesis(She sucked terribly with 1 stat per level up basically all her levels until 20. Then she promoted and gained huge stats everywhere. Seems fair. Trying not to use her as she doesn't even get exp but she can handle a dire situation)

Meh Until promotion where she becomes god passable

-Cuan(basically a weaker Finn and whatever I did with him he just never seemed to die. High str, def and hp, good at setting up kills for weaker ones and for taking on armies alone)

Better then Fin with the pursuit ring Better then Fin in everything gets gae bolg for half of a chapter where he is god in that half of a chapter BTW he has stronger stats the fin in lvl 20 in so many diffrent aspects and he has good chances to proc continue after like 10~ lvls

->Many others are good like Briggid(huge base stats)

Great Stats but no Enemy phase and not Mounted

Holyn(basically Aira without astra),

He has Luna She has Astra He has better growths and makes the best father for patty and there combat is about the same if they get to see it was much as the mounts

Levin(high dodge rate but low magic).

The Low magic really matters when Post chapter 4(unless you are stupid and didnt get holsety) He has a 30 might prf that gives him invincibility but then again 6 move

Others are from normal to bad.

Jamka Is unpromoted Briggid without the yeweffle and better average stats

Sylvia is an amazing utility Unit

Ethlin is the best healer

Already touched on lex

Furys bases are great Some healing utility post promo

Beo is preety good too with farely balanced growths

I dont bitch about low growths gaiden made me respect 25% HP

Here is Me Disproving What you said

EDIT: yo don't doublepost and also chill lol

Edited March 4, 2015 by Integrity

[MCProductions]

1 Rounded in a chapter where most enemy units are axe wielders while he has the best defence in 1st gen

Lex Has paragorn and move he is the only unit who ustilizes the brave axe anyway

Arden isnt useless he is greatest castle gaurd and gets you the 2nd best ring at chapter 2 anyway

You probably had subs did not trigger any of the good events and worst of all

You didnt read half the games dialouge

Skiped Most if not all convos

The maps are big for a reason your goal is to sieze all castles in the region seems much more logical

There is way too much incest in this highly overrated game. And its plot is just as far fatched as Awakenings.

Better constructed plot via Conversations 2 generations and then thracia to explain even more events and the plot it self is preety good in fire emblem standards if you read half the dialouge

Incest like what incest the setting looks like medieval times cousins being married was actually common marrying your cousins is also completely optional too

P.S:Lex is the 2nd best character in the game because he is a mount that always doubles and deals alot of damage

You probably used Azel Tiltyu and Diadora and thought Dew is a combat character (I STILL THINK HE IS BEST FAVAL FATHER FUCKERS)

Actually while I did use Azel, the three units I mained(not counting Sigurd) were Ayra, Lewynwho wound up sucking due to me missing Forseti and Noish. Tiltyu and Deirdre were immediately benched, and Azel was used until Lewyn was recuirted. I never skip convos however Chapter 7 did cause me to quit due to my extreme hatred of desert chapters combined with its length.

Also, I play every FE blind so this game basically kicked me in the nuts without hesitation, and don't get me started on all the rage Tharacia is presently causeing me.chapter 4 can die in a hole for all I care. Its maps seem good in premise but like Tharacia it has too many poorly executed ideas that still sound amazing. (capture literally made me want to play Tharacia)

Edit: no subs either, Everyone who could be paired was paired.

Edited March 3, 2015 by randomsonicvideos123

[Jotari]

Lewyn can miss Forseti? Huh, Doesn't that cause continuity problems since the only reason he's running about in the Second Gen is because he had Forseti.

[MCProductions]

Well, he was still there for some reason but yeah he can. You have to skip retaking the castle with Lewyn's mom in it(which I did to save time not knowing forseti was in there). As for why he is in the second gen, that is anyone's guess.

[CT075]

you can skip forseti by not visiting the castle

(also the thing about lex is objectively wrong; he is 3-rounded at worst by prologue generics and enemies don't get substantially stronger until chapter 3)

Edited March 3, 2015 by CT075

[Zasplach]

As for why he is in the second gen, that is anyone's guess.

He's in the 2nd generation because he is the only one who can rally all of the children of the allies of the 1st gen and besides he's your tactician who really ushers in Serlis as emperor.

And I wouldn't advise trying to finish a whole chapter in one sit down. Treat each individual castle as a single chapter, excluding the prologue. The game is supposed to be hard when played blind, this was made back in the day when Nintendo made difficult games.

And about Lex, he's very good. Playing the game blind is good, but the secret events are kind of a must have, pursuit ring and brave ax being pretty important.

Don't let the game frustrate you, it's hard the first time, but it's really worth playing and replaying, it get a ton easier.

[MCProductions]

He's in the 2nd generation because he is the only one who can rally all of the children of the allies of the 1st gen and besides he's your tactician who really ushers in Serlis as emperor.

And I wouldn't advise trying to finish a whole chapter in one sit down. Treat each individual castle as a single chapter, excluding the prologue. The game is supposed to be hard when played blind, this was made back in the day when Nintendo made difficult games.

And about Lex, he's very good. Playing the game blind is good, but the secret events are kind of a must have, pursuit ring and brave ax being pretty important.

Don't let the game frustrate you, it's hard the first time, but it's really worth playing and replaying, it get a ton easier.

All very good points, and once I finish up with gaiden and maybe Tharacia, I'll give Geneology another semi-blind playthrough attempt,(the only things I'll know about are what I learned here and what happened my first playthrough).Who knows, maybe I'll actually finish it this time.

Anyways, thanks everyone for explaining the love for this game and convinceing me to give it another shot.

I apoligize again for my initial rant. It honestly wasn't my intention to rant, I just wanted to state my problems with the game and ask why its loved much. Two goals which were more or less acheived.

Edited March 3, 2015 by randomsonicvideos123

[Guy Starwind]

Eh to each their own. Personally I think Tharica 776 is overrated but that's just my opinion.

Why I love FE4? The plot, the breeding of characters therefore making it have very big replay value, the big maps (I love the giant maps), the fact that some chapters have like five different armies on the screen at once doing their own thing, the great soundtrack, the name, and finally it feels like an actual war. I loved playing FE4 the first time and I didn't get every holy weapon and did terrible pairings but I still loved it (I played blind). Like I said I love the giant maps. It feels like an actual war instead on small battles. The characters are all interesting. Now I'll admit some could use some work but it's a snes game so I'm not going to judge it. Also FE4 introduced a lot of the themes current FE games use. Things like weapon triangle, opening chapter stories (whatever you want to call them), and skills. In fact just talking about it makes me want to play it. But does it have problems? Sure it does but every FE game I've played has.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Actually while I did use Azel, the three units I mained(not counting Sigurd) were Ayra, Lewynwho wound up sucking due to me missing Forseti and Noish. Tiltyu and Deirdre were immediately benched, and Azel was used until Lewyn was recuirted. I never skip convos however Chapter 7 did cause me to quit due to my extreme hatred of desert chapters combined with its length.

Also, I play every FE blind so this game basically kicked me in the nuts without hesitation, and don't get me started on all the rage Tharacia is presently causeing me.chapter 4 can die in a hole for all I care. Its maps seem good in premise but like Tharacia it has too many poorly executed ideas that still sound amazing. (capture literally made me want to play Tharacia)

Edit: no subs either, Everyone who could be paired was paired.

Your Pairings then

I love how you mained the worse of the 2 starting cavs (great father for sword kids and fee doe :3)

My 1st run had preety decent pairings

AzelXTiltyu(Friend Recd)

LewynXFerry(Convo)

SylviaXBeowurf(Lol)

BriggidXDew(Faval Dew is Best Faval hands down)

LachesisXHolyn(Eh Luna and HP I guess)

AyraXLex(Best Father Again)

AdinXJamuka(Inferior to midayle pairing doe)

Edited March 3, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Moishe Oofnik]

Actually while I did use Azel, the three units I mained(not counting Sigurd) were Ayra, Lewynwho wound up sucking due to me missing Forseti and Noish. Tiltyu and Deirdre were immediately benched, and Azel was used until Lewyn was recuirted. I never skip convos however Chapter 7 did cause me to quit due to my extreme hatred of desert chapters combined with its length.

Also, I play every FE blind so this game basically kicked me in the nuts without hesitation, and don't get me started on all the rage Tharacia is presently causeing me.chapter 4 can die in a hole for all I care. Its maps seem good in premise but like Tharacia it has too many poorly executed ideas that still sound amazing. (capture literally made me want to play Tharacia)

Edit: no subs either, Everyone who could be paired was paired.

What was a Flaw in thracias capture system again

Preety direct and head on the only bullshit in thracia is the bullshit moments and Escape maps

Edited March 3, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[MCProductions]

The stat drops when attempting to capture, a stat drop DOES make sense but not half your stats. This turns capture into more of a chore than the neat morality tester it could of been.

Also I used Noish because I swore I heard somewhere that he was a good pairing for Ayra.

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

Noish is pretty good for Aira. Charge and Critical are great skills for both the children. It's hard to go wrong with Aira though, I'm pretty sure that she has no pairings where the children are unusable.

[Jotari]

Noish is pretty good for Aira. Charge and Critical are great skills for both the children. It's hard to go wrong with Aira though, I'm pretty sure that she has no pairings where the children are unusable.

What about Levin? A quick glance at her growths leaves Larcei with 35% strength, 20% mag, 30% def and 10% res though she retains stellar HP, Skill and speed meaning she'll probably never be hit. More importantly though if for some crazy reason you pair her with Levin you would destroy his possible super kids.