Relationship Poll! Four Questions :)

[NekoKnight]

The OP specifically states that characters shouldn't be able to marry just anyone.

This is what OP said.

So,this is a quick poll,I jsut want to know what you guys think. I myself,would prefer end-game relationships/mid-game,if we have a second gen,but I also think that your characters should be able to romance most characters,not all,but most. :) You can expand upon what you chose if you like,have a good day!

They didn't say all, but most is still the majority. I said "all" merely as hyperbole.

I don't think characters should be able to romance the majority of the opposite sex characters because that's not how people work. Most people aren't even going to be be friends with the majority of people they meet, let alone romantic partners.

The options presented don't preclude the possibility of platonic relationships.

No they do not, but you'd need a way to separate the platonic developments from the romantic ones. So you say "That's what S supports are for" but I disagree for two reasons.

1. Why should romantic relationships be ranked higher than platonic ones? If two people become like family to one another, is that not equal to the strength of a romantic bond? Love is love.

2. Relationships suddenly becoming romantic at S-rank with no indication beforehand was widely criticized for Awakening supports, and rightfully so.

[Radiant head]

I'd be cool with homosexual relationships as an option, but if the point of marriage is to make babies (gameplay wise I mean), then there wouldn't be much point.

I mean the Awakening S support convos were so phoned in, that it's obvious that marriage was more about gameplay than actually having a romance story.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Radiant head

[Zasplach]

I'd be cool with homosexual relationships as an option, but if the point of marriage is to make babies (gameplay wise I mean), then there wouldn't be much point.

basically this, I don't have much preference for them, but nor do I care if the game developers feel it augments the depth of the game, go for it. But if breeding comes back, we have some sticky situations.

[Thor Odinson]

It is, but on the other hand, doing otherwise is a lot more extra writing which, I personally think would be great if they included it, but you know, budget. Also just speaking within the confines of this game, if they continue to use the FE:A engine which looks like they are from the trailer, it'd be a lot more effort to entirely rewire the support engine. There are a number of supports that do actually transition from A to S fine without hinting romantically beforehand, there just needs more care in writing to do so. If Avatar is going to be another insert type non-character, their supports will be very hard to make quality anyway and I'd rather just see the rest of the cast get some good writing because I understand the balance between gameplay elements and story elements need to happen somehow. Without writing an entire alternate set of supports which in a vacuum where production cost isn't a factor I'd totally be all for, you could theoretically select your Avatar's sexuality beforehand, but it might just lock them out of the supports you might wanna bro on, or create the same effect of not pressing that S rank anyway.

Look, I agree with you that romantic shouldn't be above platonic, but it also will need an engine overhaul which is not what we're here to discuss. Given the current engine system, the best we can do is just not press the S rank button if we don't want it.

If FE15 happens AND comes with a brand new engine, that'd be the time. I like talking engine overhauls; It's fascinating to me, as a programmer, but it's just so unlikely to happen for 14 in particular.

And wrt marriage = kids as a mechanic, yes, but there's also a number of supports that don't lead to children. Adoption is also an option, and skills passed can be explained by the fact that their parents trained them instead of some kind of biology thing.

[Loki Laufeyson]

That's an odd representation of this:

So much yaranaika.

Avatar is kinda a different case than normal characters if we're gonna think of them as an extension of the player with all the custom bits, at any rate

Now, if they were a standalone character instead of meant to be someone you can fill in some shit about and not customise, I'd probably give them the limitations as everyone else

But yeah unless game pulls Avatar /has/ to be married within x chapters else highest support gets them like Chrom's ass, you, as a player, have full control of what you want them to do in terms of supporting people

I agree with this 100%. And i want gay option for Avatar. But you know, would it be too much of an issue for only a couple of units to be able to gay romance?

Liek heres what i mean:

Character A is female and gay option.

Character Y is also female and gay/bi option.

Character B is a dude and a gay option.

Character N is a dude and gay/bi option.

Avatar is female and can romance A and Y. But Avatar as a male cannot romance A. He can romance Y though.

Avatar as a male can romance B and N. But Avatar as a female cannot romance B. See how that works? Therefore, we can get more intricate and deliberate support writing for these particular characters. And romancing would be implied during an early support so it doesnt sneak up on the player. Like you make your Avatar a dude and you support with character B there, theres implication so you can choose whether or not to go on to S support. (instead of the romantic S support coming out of fucking nowhere with a platonic series of supports. Awakening dropped the ball hard on that.)

Im also rooting for more platonic relationship supports between characters.

[Irysa]

Although I'm not fond of MU/Avatar, when it inevitably comes back I'd rather they allow you to at least customise the personality of the character a little and then instead of "Avatar supports everyone" make it so "Avatar of X personality type has Y Support Pool", and repeat the process for everyone. The whole "everyone fully supports everyone else of the opposite gender" thing is seriously awkward in FE13 and I'd rather have them sacc kids/kid customisation than do that again. Most of the same sex supports in FE13 are the best ones in the game simply because they're not shoehorned in and characters usually have reasons for interacting with each other.

As for pairings in general, I doubt IS would actually let gay couples get married, but S support doesn't neccessarily have to constitute marriage, and if there aren't kids then it doesn't really matter either way. Just actually lay the foundations for appropriate support pools for each char and make any potential relationships not entirely tacky (crack/gag pairings are fine in moderation though) and it would be fine.

Im also rooting for more platonic relationship supports between characters.

Completely agree.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Irysa

[Thor Odinson]

There are, after all, precedence of platonic pairs getting paired endings as well. I would not mind that making a return. They were nice in Sacred Stones.

If picking a base personality turns avatar from a noncharacter to a real character (via reflections in their dialogue), I'm all for that too.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Kon]

Flavia and Basilio had a platonic-ish support, at least they couldn't S-Support, so I wouldn't be surprised if they could easily implement more.

I'm all for more varieties of sexualities. Everyone being hetero is so boring and limiting, though at the same time I wouldn't want them to make a couple of gay characters that are solely made to be gay. Basically I don't want characters like Heather, whose entire character revolves around being a lesbian.

I actually really like what Floki's proposing, though I think it'd be rad to have more than 4 total options.

And not wanting homosexual characters just because you're not into it seems like a very silly reason for not allowing it at all. The enitr world isn;t made up of heterosexuals ~o3o~

[NekoKnight]

Look, I agree with you that romantic shouldn't be above platonic, but it also will need an engine overhaul which is not what we're here to discuss. Given the current engine system, the best we can do is just not press the S rank button if we don't want it.

If FE15 happens AND comes with a brand new engine, that'd be the time. I like talking engine overhauls; It's fascinating to me, as a programmer, but it's just so unlikely to happen for 14 in particular.

And wrt marriage = kids as a mechanic, yes, but there's also a number of supports that don't lead to children. Adoption is also an option, and skills passed can be explained by the fact that their parents trained them instead of some kind of biology thing.

The game engine is the same but we don't know anything about the matter of supports or children yet. Awakening had a lot of shoe-horned romance to get the kids, so without a second generation, we may be getting more traditionally developed relationships, romantic or otherwise.

Although I'm not fond of MU/Avatar, when it inevitably comes back I'd rather they allow you to at least customise the personality of the character a little and then instead of "Avatar supports everyone" make it so "Avatar of X personality type has Y Support Pool", and repeat the process for everyone. The whole "everyone fully supports everyone else of the opposite gender" thing is seriously awkward in FE13 and I'd rather have them sacc kids/kid customisation than do that again. Most of the same sex supports in FE13 are the best ones in the game simply because they're not shoehorned in and characters usually have reasons for interacting with each other.

Yes.... YES! All of your post but especially the bolded.

I'd like to see Kamui as more of a customizable Lord (looks and personality) instead of a character meant to be projected on.

Edited March 8, 2015 by NekoKnight

[ColdHeartAndASummerDream]

As in the whole "Most characters" thing,I meant that everybody should have at least a few people(like five) they can romance,and then support everybody else in a platonic way,that would work,right?

[DeadGame]

No to everything except the last one, those endings sure were cool in the past, but ingame.. meh.

I don't mind who people love in real life, but I just don't want that gay business in Fire Emblem or basicly any games that are set in a medieval setting.

Just keep it simple, without getting into politics.

[NekoKnight]

As in the whole "Most characters" thing,I meant that everybody should have at least a few people(like five) they can romance,and then support everybody else in a platonic way,that would work,right?

My humble opinion is that the more supports you have, the more diluted the quality of each one. I think the GBA titles did it best with characters having 3 or less (with some exceptions ) romance options.

Of course this just comes down to a question of "Do you want Fire Emblem to have a love simulator as a core element?" and my answer to that is, to quote Professor Oak, "There's a time and place for everything, but not now!" I think such a feature belongs in legitimate role playing games, not a story-focused, strategy 'rpg'.

Edited March 8, 2015 by NekoKnight

[Kon]

No to everything except the last one, those endings sure were cool in the past, but ingame.. meh.

I don't mind who people love in real life, but I just don't want that gay business in Fire Emblem or basicly any games that are set in a medieval setting.

Just keep it simple, without getting into politics.

Could I ask why? Social awareness (if you want to call it that) may be a recent thing, but homosexuality certainly isn't. It's kind of existed for as long as people have, y'know.

[FlipFlopMist]

I voted no for the homosexual pairings, unless it was really light I don't think they should suddenly have them in the game, ease into instead of making it extremely obvious.

That's why, despite saying no, I voted for 'leave it up to the game maker'. It should just be between two or three characters, and even then this is considering that Awakenings shoehorned as all hell support conversations are dropped in favor of more natural and less forced ones... Which also means less S supports.

I don't have an issue with it personally, but it wouldn't really give the game any real depth outside of what it normally offers, it's just a touchy subject that needs to be handled properly.

[Ambulz]

As much as I'm for homosexual pairings, I highly doubt it would be implemented seriously. Maybe this is kind of an extreme worst-case scenario, but could you imagine the potential uproar it could cause?

...Well, the more I think about it, the more it seems believable that it would just inadvertently become really good marketing. But still, that'd be an unneeded hassle.

[Florete]

As much as I'm for homosexual pairings, I highly doubt it would be implemented seriously. Maybe this is kind of an extreme worst-case scenario, but could you imagine the potential uproar it could cause?

...Well, the more I think about it, the more it seems believable that it would just inadvertently become really good marketing. But still, that'd be an unneeded hassle.

While I agree that it's extremely unlikely to happen, more and more fantasy RPGs like this are including homosexual romance options these days.

No to everything except the last one, those endings sure were cool in the past, but ingame.. meh.

I don't mind who people love in real life, but I just don't want that gay business in Fire Emblem or basicly any games that are set in a medieval setting.

Just keep it simple, without getting into politics.

Being gay is politics now?

[Sentacotus]

I'd be cool with homosexual relationships as an option, but if the point of marriage is to make babies (gameplay wise I mean), then there wouldn't be much point.

I mean the Awakening S support convos were so phoned in, that it's obvious that marriage was more about gameplay than actually having a romance story.

This is what I thought as well. I answered Yes, No, Gamer Maker's choice, and Yes. Nothing against homosexuals just would like to see the kid mechanic come back and that would be hard to do if they included it and would kinda eliminate the point of including kids in the game.

Now what about more platonic supports and relationships? I think that would help explore the lore and world a bit more.

Edited March 8, 2015 by LordTaco42

[ckc22]

Yes

Yes

Preset by IS

Yes

What I'd like to see in the support system this time around:

No children (limits story potential so much - first you have to write them in either through a generation gap or some future BS, and it tanks the whole support system by needing everyone to have so many potential pairings)

Limited to 1 S Support

S support pairs trade something to each other upon reaching S - skill/statmod/item/etc.

S support pairs are not necessarily romantic - include a variety of relationships: close platonic friends, romance, siblings, implied variety of sexual orientations that are preset by support

Unlimited A supports in order to still help flesh out characters/world.

Characters have 5-7 support options on average, Avatar has more.

No to everything except the last one, those endings sure were cool in the past, but ingame.. meh.

I don't mind who people love in real life, but I just don't want that gay business in Fire Emblem or basicly any games that are set in a medieval setting.

Just keep it simple, without getting into politics.

The whole "Fire Emblem is a medieval setting" argument just really doesn't hold up.

Edited March 8, 2015 by ckc22

[iavasechui]

Its not like the series hasn't had implied homosexual relationships in the past. If I remember correctly Raven's only paired ending was with Lucius. I don't know of any other potential ones off the top of my head though. So if they are going to include it it will be because of the character and not because of diversities sake.

Off the top of my head forced canon relationships are Pent/Louise, Bartre/Karla, Sigurd/Dierdre, Cuan/Ethlin, all the presupport system romances of fe1 and fe3, and while we never meet their respective wives both Canas and Hawkeye are married to their wives and have a child already born. Oh and Yuno(Juno?) and Zealot are already married if I remember correctly. Notably only Pent/Louise are auto A support, and Sigurd/Dierdre automarry and Cuan/Ethlin start married in their systems. You can support Bartre and Karla with whomever you want but they are going to still marry heck you can completely miss recruiting Karla and they will STILL marry,

edit: On the whole children thing, would anyone be interested in a fire emblem with children if it used the generation mechanic of fe4 instead of fe13's future babies mechanic. Hopefully less tragic than fe4s of course. Maybe have younger characters in the first gen unable to marry then returning older, and maybe at least one ala Finn who can only marry in the first gen. Keeping substitutes around in case you don't pair someone up. Sorry I'm rambling now...

Edited March 8, 2015 by iavasechui

[Zerosabers]

Voted yes, yes, game developer's choice and yes.

I doubt they'll add children back in again but they'll probably keep the Awakening S rank system.

Its not like the series hasn't had implied homosexual relationships in the past. If I remember correctly Raven's only paired ending was with Lucius. I don't know of any other potential ones off the top of my head though. So if they are going to include it it will be because of the character and not because of diversities sake.

That is his only paired ending.

[Raguna]

Although it would be rather interesting to see homosexual relationships in Fire Emblem, I don't see them showing up in this game at all. I doubt Nintendo will try to broaden it's demographic in this particular area without first having a game that has a successful homosexual character in it. I still remember the whole problem they had with Tomodachi Life and I'm sure they wouldn't want to risk now adding a few token gay characters just to be met with a whole slew of criticisms if their characterization is handled poorly. Eventually they might use them more frequently, but it won't start in Fire Emblem that is my forecast. So no homosexual relationships, at least not yet.

As for support convos, I'm up to leaving sexual preferences left up to IS. The player choosing the character's preferences will just make way for sloppy writing as the writer has to adjust the personalities of the characters with their sexual preference that was decided upon at the start of the game. I think we'd get more believable human characters if their personalities and interactions are all carefully planned from the start. I'd also like to diminish the amount of support conversation (except the Avatar's) and adjust them so characters only interact with people they would likely become friends over with the occasional odd guy/girl thrown in the mix. So around 5-8 supports depending on the person.

The Avatar is the only exception since he is suppose to be us and while he most likely won't completely be like us, he can at least represent us in some way. Like most choice games, the Avatar will most likely have three personality types that are shown through his possible dialogue options. For example, top could be sassy Avatar, Middle is default avatar and last is Manipulative Bastard Avatar and those personalities could help define his path as he goes on battle and determines how some of his allies and enemies view him. If nothing else, it would be interesting.

I think IF will be a good game and I will buy the game no matter what. For now, all I want is some brand new info.

[iavasechui]

Voted yes, yes, game developer's choice and yes.

I doubt they'll add children back in again but they'll probably keep the Awakening S rank system.

That is his only paired ending.

Oh I knew it was his only paired ending. What I meant by that was I did not remember if there were any other implied paired same gender endings. I'm not including Lyn here because while she does have a paired ending with Florina both Lyn and Florina have paired endings with guys (or well a guy in Florina's case) so I view that one as more of a friends forever thing.

Now that I've thought about it though I believe Heather is implied to be gay though I do not know if she has any paired endings at all. I didn't really use her since the game basically forces you to use Sothe and unfortunately for Heather I didn't see the need to bring more than one of that class. At least Volke had the whole assassin thing going for him to make him different enough. So I don't know if she has any paired endings.

[Kon]

Heather is all but stated to be gay, though like most Radiant Dawn characters she lacks any paired endings.

Ike and Soren have a lot of gay subtext as well, though of course neither are outright stated to be so.

Legault is also fairly implied to be bisexual, given his flirting with Heath.

[Anacybele]

Ike and Soren have a lot of gay subtext as well, though of course neither are outright stated to be so.

What "gay subtext," exactly? I've never seen any of this.

I do also believe Heather is lesbian though.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Anacybele

[Kon]

What "gay subtext," exactly? I've never seen any of this.

This is not the place to get into an entirely unrelated debate. Drop it.