Relationship Poll! Four Questions :)

[Anacybele]

I agree, people that want an Avatar that reflects their own likes is a rightful want. I mean, a gay/lesbian player will obviously want to marry their Avatar to a character of the same gender. They should get that option if the marriage system ever returns, unless children absolutely MUST inherit biological traits from the parents for some reason.

And look, I, Ana, a so-called homophobic, is saying this! Wow!

Edited March 12, 2015 by Anacybele

[NekoKnight]

I agree, people that want an Avatar that reflects their own likes is a rightful want. I mean, a gay/lesbian player will obviously want to marry their Avatar to a character of the same gender. They should get that option if the marriage system ever returns, unless children absolutely MUST inherit biological traits from the parents for some reason.

And look, I, Ana, a so-called homophobic, is saying this! Wow!

You've come a long way since your first post, lol.

[Respite&Nepenthe]

I think it's less the marriage/S-rank mechanic, and more the self-insert avatars that make it so annoying to discuss. There wasn't nearly as much controversy when relationships were just between characters as opposed to people feeling that they could marry their favourite character through the avatar. Now people want that specific character to have options that reflect their own likes, rightfully so I would say, but that's where the arguments arise.

I personally would prefer no avatars, I don't think they're necessary or add much to the game, but the majority loves them so they're probably here to stay.

Yeah, you're right. I mean, I love having an avatar, but it's causing a little trouble. I'd sacrifice my avatar for everyone just uniting and being happy about a new FE game, without all of this near-baseless arguing about a game we probably won't see until next year.

[Carter]

I voted yes for everything! Setting it up would be a bit weird... but I like being able to choose!

imo, guys are better when gay. nothing makes me lust more for a guy than not being able to have him *insert tongue and "thirsty" emoji here* XD

But for real, it'd be an interesting taste for Fire Emblem! I love more choices! In Awakening, I was a bit disappointed to see Sumia not have Stahl as a choice, but that makes sense due to how they are pushing Chrom and Sumia together.

[thecrimsonflash]

All of the debates of gay marriage in FE and how it should be manifested have left me emotionally exhausted.

Now I kinda wish the marriage mechanic could be removed entirely... more trouble than it's worth.

finally someone who agrees that awakenings marriage system is total crap and should never return to the series

but in all seriousness I voted no for all of these because the less emphasis put on marriage in fe the better lets just go back to the gba or por versions of the support system at least after the next wifu filled atrocity hits store shelves the next game

[DeadGame]

finally someone who agrees that awakenings marriage system is total crap and should never return to the series

but in all seriousness I voted no for all of these because the less emphasis put on marriage in fe the better lets just go back to the gba or por versions of the support system at least after the next wifu filled atrocity hits store shelves the next game

Hallelujah!

Remove all the cheese!

[ENS]

I voted:

no;

yes;

game designers;

yes;

Honestly I would prefer that the marriage system of Awakening were burned. But if we need waifu war, then let some characters being homosexual.

[Vitezen]

Why is there no option for "I don't care if there are gay romances, but the developers can still include them?" I would be fine if they are done well, but I would absolutely not say they NEED to be included.

[Awakener_]

Marriage 4lyfe and ever, seriously being unable to marry(as in to Mark) Lyn in 7 is one of my biggest disappointments in the game when she can be married to the other two leads. Also waifus is one of the biggest selling points for a lot of peoples I know. So yes, yes( as long as the homos one are the males and I can marry the females), yes and yes.

[MajorMajora]

I voted no to the homosexual thing, mostly because how it would effect sales. As much as I like the idea, it could easily be banned in regions like Russia or China were that kind of thing is ban-worthy.

Also, if there was homo-relationships, I feel like the best way to do that would be to simply let your own actions dictate. Like, if you want to marry the same sex, do so. No need to enter 'Homosexual' when making your avatar. Why is that not an option?

[Vascela]

1. Yes

2. Don't want to vote

3. Game maker

4. Sure

Poll won't take my vote since I don't want to answer #2. I don't have a stance on it--there's no reason why I would be for or against it. I do want relationships, but I don't explicitly hope to have the homosexual option. I also don't crave heterosexuality locked units either.

[KMT4ever]

1. Yes. However, I want S-supports to actually be indicative of romance by making them significantly harder to build.

2. No. Personal preference, not to mention it'll hurt sales. It also doesn't really fit the medieval-esque society FE normally uses.

3. See above.

4. No. What really killed Awakening's support system for me was that anyone (except Chrom and Sumia) could marry anyone of the opposite gender in their generation. It made marriage lose meaning. As a contrast Lyn could marry Eliwood, Hector, Kent, or Rath. All four of them make good sense as potential husbands for her. What are the odds of Cherche falling in love with Vaike, or Donnel with Tharja? When the primary concern for who marries whom is optimizing children the system is broken.

[Florete]

Also, if there was homo-relationships, I feel like the best way to do that would be to simply let your own actions dictate. Like, if you want to marry the same sex, do so. No need to enter 'Homosexual' when making your avatar. Why is that not an option?

What? That is the option.

[Book Bro]

2. No. Personal preference, not to mention it'll hurt sales. It also doesn't really fit the medieval-esque society FE normally uses.

I don't want to seem like I'm singling you out, but these are common reasons I see people give for why they shouldn't include the option.

1. It can't be proven that it'd hurt sales. If anything it could give it more publicity. It does seem to me that a pretty common complaint with people who liked Awakening's marriage system was that they couldn't pair their avatar up with someone of the same gender.

2. Another thing that isn't realistic is there being so many female knights/fighters. There's nothing wrong with not being 100% realistic to the times, besides it isn't supposed to be our real medieval time period, it's fantasy. Even then it doesn't have to be marriage, it can just be relationships, which did exist even if it was in secret.

[MajorMajora]

What? That is the option.

The options are for it to be random, for the game developer to decide, or for you to set it up during avatar creation. Why can't it just be dictated by your actions?

I don't want to seem like I'm singling you out, but these are common reasons I see people give for why they shouldn't include the option.

1. It can't be proven that it'd hurt sales. If anything it could give it more publicity. It does seem to me that a pretty common complaint with people who liked Awakening's marriage system was that they couldn't pair their avatar up with someone of the same gender.

2. Another thing that isn't realistic is there being so many female knights/fighters. There's nothing wrong with not being 100% realistic to the times, besides it isn't supposed to be our real medieval time period, it's fantasy. Even then it doesn't have to be marriage, it can just be relationships, which did exist even if it was in secret.

It would probably help sales here, but in places like China or Russia? Could easily get banned.

Edited March 21, 2015 by MajorMajora

[MajorMajora]

double post

Edited March 21, 2015 by MajorMajora

[Florete]

The options are for it to be random, for the game developer to decide, or for you to set it up during avatar creation. Why can't it just be dictated by your actions?

Hm, I guess that's one way to see it. And I think I mentioned in my first post that the options are really awkward.

But I don't think anyone is actually advocating for a sexual preference option in avatar creation, just to be how you want through choices made.

[KMT4ever]

I don't want to seem like I'm singling you out, but these are common reasons I see people give for why they shouldn't include the option.

It's fine.

1. It can't be proven that it'd hurt sales. If anything it could give it more publicity. It does seem to me that a pretty common complaint with people who liked Awakening's marriage system was that they couldn't pair their avatar up with someone of the same gender.

Like MajorMajora said, it may help sales here, but abroad it might not go over so well. We should also remember that FE is a Japanese series first and foremost. I'm not sure what Japan thinks of homosexuality, so I can't really say anything about that.

2. Another thing that isn't realistic is there being so many female knights/fighters. There's nothing wrong with not being 100% realistic to the times, besides it isn't supposed to be our real medieval time period, it's fantasy. Even then it doesn't have to be marriage, it can just be relationships, which did exist even if it was in secret.

The playable army has plenty of women in order to appeal to both genders. The opposing armies are almost completely male, except for the pegasus knights and some commanders. Secret relationships may not go over so well, but I'll admit you have a good point.

[feplus]

If Intelligent Systems decides to add in gay relationships, the implementation needs to be tasteful and realistic.

1. Either establish this is a society that condones gay relationships in advance, or else have gay relationships be fraught with difficulty.

2. Gay characters should feel like people. No stereotypically effeminate men and butch women.

3. Apply a kind of Bechdel test: gay characters need to talk about things other than gay sex and being gay.

4. Accepting your orientation can be challenging. At least some characters should be in the closet, struggling with their sexuality, etc.

5. Being gay does not mean you have an insatiable sexual appetite. It baffles me how often game writers get this wrong.

6. Not all gay characters should act friendly towards one another.

7. Keep proportions realistic. 3-5% of the population is gay, so 3-5% of the cast should be gay. A little wiggle room here is fine, but resist the temptation to give every female character a gay partner so teenage boys can satisfy some silly fantasy.

8. Related: do not write lesbian relationships for the pleasure of straight men. Seriously.

9. Not all characters who oppose "the gay lifestyle"- and there will be at least a few, since we're in a pseudo-medieval setting- should be painted as one-dimensional bigots. Compare with Jill's development in Path of Radiance.

Considering Japanese developers still portray black characters in consistently racist ways, and considering Awakening couldn't even handle heterosexual relationships in a tasteful or realistic fashion, I have absolutely no doubt IS would drop the ball and gay relationships would become a pandering farce. So I voted "no" on all options.

Edited March 21, 2015 by feplus

[Strawman]

I kind of like the idea of having lots of pairing options for one character. It seems weird to limit it to just one or two. Maybe like 5 for each, based on preferences that go along with the character's personality. Granted past FE games had story incorporated relationships better than Awakening because of how it was open ended and support based.

What would be cool was that if what happened in supports with relationship building affected the main story dialogue. It seems like a lot of work, but in the story characters could act differently towards each other depending on their support levels.

As for the sexuality thing, it would be nice I think if non-heteronormative possibilities existed. Just like i would say FE games could use more non-white/light skinned characters (presented non-stereo typically of course). The setting doesn't matter. It is a fictional setting, they can make the racial make-up whatever they want because they don't have to worry about historical accuracy because its FICTION. Same with sexual orientation. Create a medieval society with just as much diversity as we experience in our shrinking globalized world, why not?

[Thor Odinson]

It would probably help sales here, but in places like China or Russia? Could easily get banned.

Please, they don't even translate it into Chinese.

Which is really weird considering how close Japan and China are in terms of geography and also in terms of their language similarities, but a lot of nintendo games (including Pokemon with its many language options) simply don't include Chinese.

[Book Bro]

FE is a Japanese series first and foremost. I'm not sure what Japan thinks of homosexuality, so I can't really say anything about that.

This is true and is ultimately the most important factor. As far as I'm aware it isn't really accepted but it isn't outright dangerous to come out. I did hear there was an openly gay politician recently elected to an important position in Tokyo, so it's probably like many other countries where it's becoming more accepted in large cities first.

[NekoKnight]

If Intelligent Systems decides to add in gay relationships, the implementation needs to be tasteful and realistic.

1. Either establish this is a society that condones gay relationships in advance, or else have gay relationships be fraught with difficulty.

2. Gay characters should feel like people. No stereotypically effeminate men and butch women.

3. Apply a kind of Bechdel test: gay characters need to talk about things other than gay sex and being gay.

4. Accepting your orientation can be challenging. At least some characters should be in the closet, struggling with their sexuality, etc.

5. Being gay does not mean you have an insatiable sexual appetite. It baffles me how often game writers get this wrong.

6. Not all gay characters should act friendly towards one another.

7. Keep proportions realistic. 3-5% of the population is gay, so 3-5% of the cast should be gay. A little wiggle room here is fine, but resist the temptation to give every female character a gay partner so teenage boys can satisfy some silly fantasy.

8. Related: do not write lesbian relationships for the pleasure of straight men. Seriously.

9. Not all characters who oppose "the gay lifestyle"- and there will be at least a few, since we're in a pseudo-medieval setting- should be painted as one-dimensional bigots. Compare with Jill's development in Path of Radiance.

Considering Japanese developers still portray black characters in consistently racist ways, and considering Awakening couldn't even handle heterosexual relationships in a tasteful or realistic fashion, I have absolutely no doubt IS would drop the ball and gay relationships would become a pandering farce. So I voted "no" on all options.

The only inclusion of gays in Japanese mainstream media (ie not including works that are built around homosexual relationships) has them as a source of comedy. Even for the characters that aren't a vehicle for homosexual stereotypes, "gay-ness" is just treated like an immature phase people will get over. Alternatively, homosexuals are just used as fanservice. If people want a fair treatment of gays, they're going to have to look to "gay media", which Fire Emblem is not. Fire Emblem will never be Dragon Age.

[Vitezen]

My only fear with implementing gay relationships would be if they take it in a similar vein as Awakening, where every single character is somehow bisexual. And I know a lot of people will want to have a gay character have the same opportunities for relationships as the other characters. Realistically, you would be hard pressed to have any more than 2 gay characters of the same gender in your army, and there's no guarantee they would even be interested in each other. I think what a character looks for in their husband or wife is just as much a part of their character as anything else, so having everyone be able to be attracted to everyone, even those of the same gender, would be even less realistic than Awakening where all guys and all girls were into each other.

On the other hand, the matter sorted itself out in a way, because many characters just had supports and marriages that were plain better than the rest. Essentially those are the game's version of the "canon" options, because if you want a well-written story you would be choosing them. Including gay options would probably just tread the same path.

In the end I'm ambivalent. I certainly don't want the devs to include anything regarding homosexuality just to pander to an audience. In character development, the first, last, and only priority should be quality writing.

[ColdHeartAndASummerDream]

Clarification: Setting it up doesn't mean necessarily in Avatar creation,that's not what I meant at all,what I meant was that you get,in some way,choose who romances who,when it comes to the same gender. Hope that makes sense?