Relationship Poll! Four Questions :)

[Florete]

If you don't see the difference, we're only going to end up having this problem again. In case it wasn't clear, I wasn't referring to how you said it in the post I quoted, but more how you said it in your first post.

[Anacybele]

Oh! Then yes, I do see a difference now. Sorry again. xP

[DeadGame]

This trend of making people shut up by calling them homophobic or anything like that... tse.

Now, as I said before, I don't care what people do in their private life, but it's not homophobic whatsoever to simply not want this in the game.

I think it'd make anything too complicated for no reason and that they should keep it simple, only having straight romances, if any at all. That. Is. All.

Again, quick reminder that Fire Emblem isn't a dating simulator and never should be one.

[Kon]

This trend of making people shut up by calling them homophobic or anything like that... tse.

Now, as I said before, I don't care what people do in their private life, but it's not homophobic whatsoever to simply not want this in the game.

I think it'd make anything too complicated for no reason and that they should keep it simple, only having straight romances, if any at all. That. Is. All.

Again, quick reminder that Fire Emblem isn't a dating simulator and never should be one.

No one is telling her to shut up, just to change her wording so she doesn't actually come off as sounding homophobic.

How would it make things complicated, exactly?

Ai to yuuki no monogatari, "A tale of love and courage". It's in the theme's lyrics

Romance has always been a part of Fire Emblem, just because the whole Avatar/waifu thing is new doesn't mean that Fire Emblem has ever been devoid of romance.

[Zasplach]

This trend of making people shut up by calling them homophobic or anything like that... tse.

Now, as I said before, I don't care what people do in their private life, but it's not homophobic whatsoever to simply not want this in the game.

I think it'd make anything too complicated for no reason and that they should keep it simple, only having straight romances, if any at all. That. Is. All.

Again, quick reminder that Fire Emblem isn't a dating simulator and never should be one.

Eh, maybe that is homophobic in the modern use of the word, "times they are a changin.'" Like I said earlier, I don't prefer it, but if they are going to have pairings; it seems almost guaranteed, maybe homosexual pairings are the only fair way to do it.

Granted, I come from a pretty conservative place where just accepting homosexuals for themselves is pretty progressive, but maybe with young people, the vast majority of game players, excluding homosexuals from a place where they could be included, ie romantic relationships, is close minded and maybe homophobic.

*shrugs shoulders*

Edited March 11, 2015 by Zasplach

[Book Bro]

This trend of making people shut up by calling them homophobic or anything like that... tse.

Now, as I said before, I don't care what people do in their private life, but it's not homophobic whatsoever to simply not want this in the game.

I think it'd make anything too complicated for no reason and that they should keep it simple, only having straight romances, if any at all. That. Is. All.

Again, quick reminder that Fire Emblem isn't a dating simulator and never should be one.

How would it complicate things? Beyond adding fuel to internet flame wars, but the hetero avatar marriage system already does that pretty well. As far as gameplay they could do it the quick and easy way and have 2 gay males and 2 gay females. Not ideal but it gives people who want to pair their avatar with someone of the same sex an option, while those who don't can ignore those characters or pair them with each other. Simple.

[Anacybele]

No one is telling her to shut up, just to change her wording so she doesn't actually come off as sounding homophobic.

Yeah, nowhere did anyone just tell me to shut up or anything...

Though, the thing is, I grew up not even knowing homosexuality existed. Nobody in my family is gay/lesbian (as far as I know) and I didn't have any gay/lesbian friends until high school. Not that I didn't want any, I just happened to never have any. I was never taught about this in school or by family or friends or anything. So I'm just way more used to seeing a man and woman together, and that's what I prefer.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Anacybele

[Sunwoo]

Ana, that's not really an excuse. I grew up not knowing homophobia (or a lot of negative things) existed, and I like to think that I'm now a decent, tolerant person who supports equal rights and realizes that I may not like something but other people do and that is fine as long as it is not hurting anyone.

As for whether the current definition of "homophobia" is "wrong" or should be changed or not … you're not an English major, nor am I, and it feels like you're saying "let's change it because I think it's wrong, even if no one else has complained". We might as well go back and change the definition of everything else, like xenophobia, at that.

I think it'd be interesting if certain marriage choices changed the direction of the plot, but I suppose it would have to depend on how deep or significant the fracture is. I mean, yeah it's cool that the decisions we make get to influence the course of the game, but if every little choice changed the plot drastically that might just be a little too much.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Sunwoo

[CazTGG]

In retrospect, the fact that nearly every relationship in a Fire Emblem game (that didn't end in tragedy) happened to be heterosexual is somewhat... unsettling. Sure there were some hints here and there but I can't think of a single playable character who was openly homosexual outside of (maybe) Heather who, to put it bluntly, is one of the worst examples of a homosexual character in any video game and quite possibly the worst character in the series. Here's hoping that If raises the bar that was set so low by Radiant Dawn and recognizes that we're living in the 21st century.

EDIT:

I'd be cool with homosexual relationships as an option, but if the point of marriage is to make babies (gameplay wise I mean), then there wouldn't be much point.

I mean the Awakening S support convos were so phoned in, that it's obvious that marriage was more about gameplay than actually having a romance story.

Adoption. There's no reason to believe a child raised in a non-nuclear family wouldn't be able to pick up traits or skills from either of their parents and we have seen characters who were adopted or raised in a non-nuclear family, most notably in the Tellius titles.

Edited March 11, 2015 by CazTGG

[Anacybele]

Ana, that's not really an excuse. I grew up not knowing homophobia (or a lot of negative things) existed, and I like to think that I'm now a decent, tolerant person who supports equal rights and realizes that I may not like something but other people do and that is fine as long as it is not hurting anyone.

I'm not using it as an excuse for anything except for my preference of heterosexual pairings. I like to think that I'm also a decent, tolerant person who supports equal rights and realizes that I may not like something other people do. Think of what I'm saying here in the words Red Fox put it in.

If someone hopes that the game has homosexual pairings, fine, be my guest. Why can't I peacefully hope that the game doesn't, but not really care too much if it does?

Edited March 11, 2015 by Anacybele

[Star and Moon]

Basis on my poll answers.

1) I voted yes, because relationships can be interesting (if done correctly), and support is a useful (albeit in Awakening can be considered broken) feature. Plus, I think child characters is a fun addition.

2) No, I really don't want to see any of that in a Fire Emblem game, and the shipping is already bad enough as is.

3) Again, no.

4) I think all relationship options should be available while playing the game, not after beating it.

Honestly, based on Awakening, the relationship feature needs some big changes. First of all, units (Even the Avatar, in some cases) shouldn't be able to achieve S support with so many other units. It's kind of weird that pretty much everyone can end up with anyone. Also, child characters should happen because of time-skip, not because of time travel. And... it actually took me a while to fully figure out relationships. Should be explained in better detail. :p

[NekoKnight]

I was hoping people could have moved on by this point but the popular, new anime 'Attack on Anacybele' continues. This thread is about more than debating one person's social views, guys.

I think it'd be interesting if certain marriage choices changed the direction of the plot, but I suppose it would have to depend on how deep or significant the fracture is. I mean, yeah it's cool that the decisions we make get to influence the course of the game, but if every little choice changed the plot drastically that might just be a little too much.

Yes, this is something serious to consider. The more fractures you have, the less content you'll have for a single play through (Sacred Stones for example). I don't think the plot has to change dramatically for the choices characters make. Rather than a SS-style route split, it could be more perspective focused like the differences between Eliwood's and Hector's routes. The general direction of the plot would stay the same but there would be a few 'route' specific maps. For the other maps, it might be the same area but what units you have to fight with and with whom you fight will be different. Let's say that there are several clans and if you marry any member of that clan by a certain point in the game, you'll be fighting on behalf of that clan, at least in terms of story.

[Florete]

This trend of making people shut up by calling them homophobic or anything like that... tse.

Now, as I said before, I don't care what people do in their private life, but it's not homophobic whatsoever to simply not want this in the game.

I think it'd make anything too complicated for no reason and that they should keep it simple, only having straight romances, if any at all. That. Is. All.

Again, quick reminder that Fire Emblem isn't a dating simulator and never should be one.

Would it not be racist if I said I didn't want black people in the game? Would it not be sexist if I said I didn't want women in the game?

Not caring if they're included or not is fine. Preferring heterosexuality and wanting that to be the majority is fine. But wishing them to not be there at all - especially when interaction would be totally optional - displays intolerance and is not fine. (Note that context is key here; while something else might be able to get away without it, Fire Emblem being what it is should be very much open to homosexual romance, even more so now that an avatar character is here to stay)

The excuse "Fire Emblem is not a dating simulator" has never been a good one. Romance and pairing has existed in the series for almost as long as the series has existed.

[-Cynthia-]

I don't see how having only straight romances is 'simpler' either necessarily, if they go with a more restricted support system as was the case in FE 6-9. Even if an avatar character can romance everyone, they can just reuse support dialogue for both genders probably.

[Radiant head]

Adoption. There's no reason to believe a child raised in a non-nuclear family wouldn't be able to pick up traits or skills from either of their parents and we have seen characters who were adopted or raised in a non-nuclear family, most notably in the Tellius titles.

The idea that the same character can either be adopted or biological, but is nonetheless the same character is pretty flimsy to me. Adoption should have some story basis, not just be a game mechanic. I guess adoption works though if you preset certain characters as gay so that they always adopt. But the next issue is, are gay couples the only ones who adopt then?

To be clear, I think gay pairings can work fine, though I'd rather they not try to make it coexist with Awakening's dating sim style.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Radiant head

[Book Bro]

The idea that the same character can either be adopted or biological, but is nonetheless the same character is pretty flimsy to me.

No stranger than Lucina being the same character regardless of whether her mom is Sumia, Sully, Maribelle, Robin, Olivia, or a random maiden. Same for any of the Awakening kids. But I don't like the idea of adoption either, I don't want kids period.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

The idea that the same character can either be adopted or biological, but is nonetheless the same character is pretty flimsy to me.

This bothered me than it should have in Awakening(/FE4) when I thought too hard about it, most children don't inherit everything but their hair from their mother lol

Edited March 12, 2015 by L95

[ClevelandSteve]

The same child character being the biological child of a character if their parent is straight and the adopted child of a character if their parent is gay may not make any sense in terms of real world logic, but there's quite a few things in Fire Emblem that sacrifice realism for the sake of gameplay. And I think being inclusive is important. My cousin didn't get as much enjoyment out of Awakening as she could have because she has to make her Avatar a guy if she wants to pair with someone she would actually be attracted to in real life. If you don't want characters to have homosexual pairings, you can just not put those characters in those pairings (which may or may not mean not pairing them with anyone at all, depending on if characters are pre-set to be straight or gay or if there's a DA2-style "everyone is bi" situation).

Of course, I highly doubt IS is going to include homosexual pairings in If, due to Nintendo's track record on the subject. And due to how most of the requests for inclusion are coming from the western fanbase which doesn't usually get catered to, especially with a series like Fire Emblem which was very niche here until Awakening came along, and still isn't as mainstream in the west as it is in Japan.

[Radiant head]

No stranger than Lucina being the same character regardless of whether her mom is Sumia, Sully, Maribelle, Robin, Olivia, or a random maiden. Same for any of the Awakening kids. But I don't like the idea of adoption either, I don't want kids period.

That's strange too, but at least Lucina consistently has Chrom's genetics, so it's definitely stranger IMO. If Lucina could optionally be Chrom's adopted daughter, then this should be reflected in the story, not just be a gameplay option.

Like I said though, I would just fix certain characters (like Chrom if you hypothetically revised Awakening) as straight, and fix certain other characters as straight or bi. The Avatar should be customizable obviously though.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Radiant head

[HolyMBison]

I am all for homosexual relationships in the new Fire Emblem.

The best way to approach children for characters who are strictly gay is by tying an adopted child to a specific parent. For parents who are bi, it is a bit trickier. The best solutions I can think of are:

A: Tie the child to be the result of a pairing with one specific gender. For example, if you set character A (male) up with character B (male) they adopt child 1. If you set character A up with character C (female) you get nothing. The opposite is true for some other characters.

or

B: Characters have different children for each type of pairing. For example, if you set character A (male) up with character B (male) you adopt child 1. If you set up character A with character C (female) you get child 2.

This is obviously assuming that there are child characters in the next game.

Edited March 12, 2015 by HolyMBison

[ckc22]

This trend of making people shut up by calling them homophobic or anything like that... tse.

Now, as I said before, I don't care what people do in their private life, but it's not homophobic whatsoever to simply not want this in the game.

I think it'd make anything too complicated for no reason and that they should keep it simple, only having straight romances, if any at all. That. Is. All.

Again, quick reminder that Fire Emblem isn't a dating simulator and never should be one.

No one said shut up. They did however not let people just make ignorant comments about a class of people.

As to the second part of your comment: ugh. That's all.

[CazTGG]

The idea that the same character can either be adopted or biological, but is nonetheless the same character is pretty flimsy to me. Adoption should have some story basis, not just be a game mechanic. I guess adoption works though if you preset certain characters as gay so that they always adopt. But the next issue is, are gay couples the only ones who adopt then?

To be clear, I think gay pairings can work fine, though I'd rather they not try to make it coexist with Awakening's dating sim style.

There's a simple solution to the matter: Have a more rigid structure in terms of who can be a partner with whom i.e. some characters are gay, bi, etc. and/or have multiple children characters based on who marries who, assuming of course the children mechanic returns. It would make a lot more sense than Awakening's "your hair is a different color because mother" nonsense in spite of the official artwork clearly showing what color their hair happens to be. Some might say it's too many options for such a system, but considering that this entry is said to have more choices than any previous entry, I would imagine that would include the support system too, thus increasing the amount of replayability one would have exploring new characters, their skills and supports (Again, unlike Awakening where only the mother saw any decent development with their child whereas the father's dialogue with them was more generic). The only character that this may cause problems for is the Avatar, but that's assuming there is one (The character most people cite as proof could simply be a twin or close relative a la Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones), something which remains unconfirmed though again, a more defined structure for each character's sexuality and supports. As for them being the only ones to adopt, I would like to see more than just same sex couples who adopt of course, but my original response was just to answer how exactly children in a nontraditional relationship could work from a story perspective.

[Radiant head]

I wouldn't call that simple, but yeah it can work.

[Respite&Nepenthe]

All of the debates of gay marriage in FE and how it should be manifested have left me emotionally exhausted.

Now I kinda wish the marriage mechanic could be removed entirely... more trouble than it's worth.

[Book Bro]

Now I kinda wish the marriage mechanic could be removed entirely... more trouble than it's worth.

I think it's less the marriage/S-rank mechanic, and more the self-insert avatars that make it so annoying to discuss. There wasn't nearly as much controversy when relationships were just between characters as opposed to people feeling that they could marry their favourite character through the avatar. Now people want that specific character to have options that reflect their own likes, rightfully so I would say, but that's where the arguments arise.

I personally would prefer no avatars, I don't think they're necessary or add much to the game, but the majority loves them so they're probably here to stay.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Owain Dark