Chiki Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Maybe someone should update Soul's tier list with the low turncount/high reliability criteria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Wait, why didn't Ludveck attack at two range? There are certain spots that force Ludveck to attack at 1 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Wait, why didn't Ludveck attack at two range? He got chokepoint into doing so purposely. Beauty, ain't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeKr Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Maybe someone should update Soul's tier list with the low turncount/high reliability criteria? His list doesn't seem like a bad basis. Though I would bump Jill to Haar's tier and Tanith (T?) up, given the direction of recent arguments. Or does someone want to defend Skirmir more? Also I like some of kirche's points, mebe details later. Edited March 22, 2015 by XeKr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Do people really want transfers that badly? Also, why? I'll put Jill up in Haar's tier, I don't mind. EDIT: Also put Titania above Sothe. Edited March 22, 2015 by The Red Queen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Do people really want transfers that badly? Also, why? I'll put Jill up in Haar's tier, I don't mind. EDIT: Also put Titania above Sothe. Oh hey, this is still around. And yes, transfers are important. Due to how the game works a transfer can make a huge difference because it allows caps to come sooner and, thusly, for better BEXP usage as well as enabling some characters to do things they couldn't. IIRC at least one character goes from 'can't double/kill' to being able to double and kill just because of transfers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 See, Oscar/Boyd/Gatrie. How do "this person caps and transfers ceratain stat" goes about? Averages + a statbooster in FE9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 IIRC it was sort of like that except with the notion that the FE9 playthrough was being made completely independent of the PoR tiers. I.E. even if Rolf was the worst character in PoR he would receive 0 discrimination because of it in the RD tiering. Otherwise it was 20/20 averages plus a stat-booster or two (I forget the exact amount, but so long as the unit wasn't just being resource-dumped it was okay). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yeah, okay. I can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Tanith is way too low and Skrimir is too high up. I don't even understand why people would defend Skrimir at all. There's no way Caineghis and Giffca are worse than Skrimir. And Caineghis is obviously better than Giffca because of Formshift, though Giffca T might be a little better actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Tanith is too low, even though I assumed an optimal (and cheap) setup for her? I raised her significantly more than where she used to be, and that's the same for Sigrun. I mean, if you have something for me that can raise her even further, by all means, throw it out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Yes Chiki, we know you hate all non Royal Laguz. That being said, Tanith shouldn't be below Skrimir, she's around longer to do stuff. I don't think that's a very hard case to make. The Royal Lions should also go above Skrimir. ... Actually why are the Royal Lions below Rhys and Aran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Availability... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Availability always was a tricky thing to argue in RD. I'll just leave that alone then. It'd get into a really hairy discussion about the worth of their contributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Yes Chiki, we know you hate all non Royal Laguz. That being said, Tanith shouldn't be below Skrimir, she's around longer to do stuff. I don't think that's a very hard case to make. The Royal Lions should also go above Skrimir. She's only available for 3-11 and 3-E before Skirmir, and 3-E is barely even a chapter. The cool thing about Tanith is that if she has transfers, her growths are great in a way that you can just bexp her straight to tier . Throw in Nullify, and she's almost on par with the dracoknights. But I dunno how transfers affect the list. Edited March 23, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Availability always was a tricky thing to argue in RD. I'll just leave that alone then. It'd get into a really hairy discussion about the worth of their contributions. Don't be afraid to argue what you think is wrong, lol. I don't think availability in itself is a full "makes or breaks" but I also happen to thing Aran is one of the few redeemable DBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Aran is awesome in NM where you can bexp his speed as soon as he caps str and def, but HM he's awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 She's only available for 3-11 and 3-E before Skirmir, and 3-E is barely even a chapter. The cool thing about Tanith is that if she has transfers, her growths are great in a way that you can just bexp her straight to tier . Throw in Nullify, and she's almost on par with the dracoknights. But I dunno how transfers affect the list. The problem is really how much they're both doing while they're around. Even with Haar and Hawks in play, Tanith can make notable contributions in 3-11. Her 3-E does lack compared to Hawks, Ike, Haar, and Titania though. Skrimir on the other hand does like nothing when Haar is around. Even less since both Jill and Haar usually go to the Silver Army. I don't think this makes him bad, since "he's not as good as Jill and Haar" is kind of a retarded argument to make against him but he doesn't contribute as much as Tanith under the assumption of optimal play, which is what this list is assuming or something. The optimal deployment only criteria has it's own host of problems but that's already been discussed to death. That being said, I do think Skrimir's simply good at doing his job when he's around. He can pull his own weight with very little investment and can have comparable performance to the Royal lions if he gets SS strike before (or during) 4-E. Don't be afraid to argue what you think is wrong, lol. I don't think availability in itself is a full "makes or breaks" but I also happen to thing Aran is one of the few redeemable DBs. Colonel M made a good case for Aran way back when so I don't doubt that he is redeemable, I just don't think Aran's availability is worth much compared to what the Royal lions (or Tanith) are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 This game cannot be tiered, mark my words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 This game cannot be tiered, mark my words Considering how all over the place RD is, this isn't even that far from the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Availability... The royals are amazing when they're around even without 2-range, so they should go up. Or at least put trash below them. Edited March 23, 2015 by Chiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Considering how all over the place RD is, this isn't even that far from the truth. Too be honest, the availability thing is pretty much the only reason I avoided the RD tier lists. It's one thing to tier out a straight path, or even something like FE8's duel-path, but comparing two units from entirely different sections of the game? That's difficult at BEST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eselred Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Merlinus for Top Tier. I like it. Anyway, Radiant Dawn is practically impossible to tier because of the wonky availability and the character dump at the end of the game. It's totally unlike other Fire Emblem games where your army grows and progresses over time. You keep jumping back and forth then all of a sudden, BOOM, the game allows you to access all of your units near the end. It should also be noted at that point the game gives you the Royals, who thoroughly outclass the majority of your army. I remember the last time I played RD, Tibarn practically soloed the maps he participates in, and he destroyed the end game along with Ike and the other Royals. Are the Royals top tier because they crush the few maps they are in? Or low tier because they have basically no availability? How can you tier this mess? Madness. This game cannot be tiered, mark my words I said that back on page 5 (see my quoted post), and got run out of the thread or outright ignored. How the story is structured in RD makes it quite unlike every other FE, where you normally build up a single army over the course of the game and once a unit joins, you have them for the rest of the game. FE4 is the closest to RD in terms of availability, but even FE4 is fairly consistent in that pretty much almost everyone in Gen1 dies and then you roll with Gen2 from the halfway point forward. FE8 has the route split, but many units stay with you that you used from the beginning of the game, and you still get the same units on both routes, just at different times. Oh well. Edited March 23, 2015 by Eselred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 And I'm going to keep ignoring it. I already discussed that point with Yojinbo: if you're so concerned about accuracy (and feel that making a tier list for the whole game is inaccurate), then feel free to make a tier list for every single chapter, or even every single turn of the game if you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) I said that back on page 5 (see my quoted post), and got run out of the thread or outright ignored. How the story is structured in RD makes it quite unlike every other FE, where you normally build up a single army over the course of the game and once a unit joins, you have them for the rest of the game. FE4 is the closest to RD in terms of availability, but even FE4 is fairly consistent in that pretty much almost everyone in Gen1 dies and then you roll with Gen2 from the halfway point forward. FE8 has the route split, but many units stay with you that you used from the beginning of the game, and you still get the same units on both routes, just at different times. Oh well. "Ran out of the thread"? What do you mean? I "ignored" (I read it, if that counts) your post because you were saying the same as the others, that this game "can't be properly tiered" because the availability and different teams system is a mess. To answer that, and to everyone saying it, I don't know what's all the fuss about. I think it can be tiered and shaped into something, it's not that hard. The royals are amazing when they're around even without 2-range, so they should go up. Or at least put trash below them. Yeah, sure. There's a lot to reconsider, and I'll be adding in the transfer versions. Added transfers! シ Love how the Top tiers make little to no difference with them. Then there's characters like Boyd & Oscar taking leaps over tiers... Edited March 24, 2015 by The Red Queen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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