Shadow Mir Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I question Kurthnaga's decisions, or lack thereof. [...] I just don't like him and think he could have done something different? Now that you mention it, that probably was why I wanted Pelleas out so badly back in the light/dark mages competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Oh come on... Edited November 1, 2015 by Levant Colthearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragonight Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I never said he was bad as a unit, I just said I never used him. I never needed to, so I never did, so I never found him useful. Kellam was meant to be a joke with his "everyone forgets I exist" thing and I find him annoying, too. Same kind of thing here. It's not the same. Kellam talks. It's just that no one ever realizes he does. While Ulki talks only when he wants to. They're two different things. It'd be easier to compare Ulki to someone like Volke. I like both of them, but I don't like Kellam's gimmick either. Like when he sells Reyson...only to plan to rescue him...only to have that little plan failed...like, seriously dude. What in the heck were you even thinking? He probably needed / wanted the money in some sort of way. I won't deny that that's pretty twisted, but such is the nature of a Raven. In a sense. I'm honestly pretty offended. I question Kurthnaga's decisions, or lack thereof. I don't understand why you'd think I don't remember RD? I just don't like him and think he could have done something different? So why would you still give him the option of running away? He clearly doesn't have that option, and even if he did, he wouldn't take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragonight Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Lalum 9 Olivia 2Xane 6Tiki 21Myrrh 11Lethe 17Mordecai 8Caineghis 3Muarim 10Reyson 10Janaff 15Ulki 13Nasir 13Tibarn 22Naesala 15Nealuchi 3Kurthnaga 8Nailah 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragonight Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Now that you mention it, that probably was why I wanted Pelleas out so badly back in the light/dark mages competition. I don't think you guys fully understand the personalities of these characters and the roles they were meant to fulfill... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 It's not the same. Kellam talks. It's just that no one ever realizes he does. While Ulki talks only when he wants to. They're two different things. It'd be easier to compare Ulki to someone like Volke. I like both of them, but I don't like Kellam's gimmick either. It feels the same because while Kellam's thing is a gimmick...Ulki's is not. It's like...he never talks, then when he comes on screen it's like "oh yeah I forgot, you exist!" That's how I feel about it, anyway. He probably needed / wanted the money in some sort of way. I won't deny that that's pretty twisted, but such is the nature of a Raven. Yeah, exactly. It's twisted. He's twisted. I would never like, trust, or want to be around him ever again after he did something like that, therefore I don't like him. So why would you still give him the option of running away? He clearly doesn't have that option, and even if he did, he wouldn't take it. Everyone has an option, and I think he could have had that option. I don't think you guys fully understand the personalities of these characters and the roles they were meant to fulfill... Um...yes, I do. I understand just fine. I just don't like them. I am once again offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caster Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Wait you weren't talking about Gareth? I wasn't paying attention, whatever, lol. Edited November 1, 2015 by Sophie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Wait you weren't talking about Gareth? I wasn't paying attention, whatever, lol. Well I don't like him either lol, doesn't he have like...two lines in the whole series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caster Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Pretty much. I read none of this conversation All I saw was "Never talks" so I just assumed, but I'm done here for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragonight Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 It feels the same because while Kellam's thing is a gimmick...Ulki's is not. It's like...he never talks, then when he comes on screen it's like "oh yeah I forgot, you exist!" That's how I feel about it, anyway.So what's your opinion on Volke?Everyone has an option, and I think he could have had that option.I am tired of repeating myself... Why would he run away if he knew what happened to the last person that ran away? He could've easily been killed the moment he stepped out of Goldoan borders.Since you've never answered my questions but still continue this argument, are you implying that you'd run away from your family and plunge headfirst into a war, with no combat experience? Um...yes, I do. I understand just fine. I just don't like them. I am once again offended.We'll see about that depending on how you respond to what I said above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 So what's your opinion on Volke Don't care for him, but more for unit reasons than personality. I am tired of repeating myself... Why would he run away if he knew what happened to the last person that ran away? He could've easily been killed the moment he stepped out of Goldoan borders. Since you've never answered my questions but still continue this argument, are you implying that you'd run away from your family and plunge headfirst into a war, with no combat experience? First of all, I'm not continuing anything. YOU were wondering why I didn't like mostly every remaining character, so I told you. Then YOU (yes, you) decided to pick apart my statements. Then YOU continued. Literally everything I've said has been in response to YOU. Secondly, you're twisting my words (in the argument YOU persist on continuing). I never said nor implied "run away and plunge into war!" Thirdly, of course I'm ignoring your questions. You've insulted me to my face twice now. I'm not answering anything if you're just going to insult me. "Don't you remember RD? You obviously don't know these characters and roles!" I remember RD, and I understand perfectly well what roles the characters are supposed to play, I just don't like them. I find many of it narratively flawed in multiple ways, Kurthnaga being one example. Just because I don't like it, does not mean I don't understand it. Don't expect me to debate if you're going to insult me, and then go so far as to say that I'm persisting an argument. The only thing I've been childish about is the stuff with Sophie. But I've apologized, we've made up, it's cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragonight Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 First of all, I'm not continuing anything. YOU were wondering why I didn't like mostly every remaining character, so I told you. Then YOU (yes, you) decided to pick apart my statements. Then YOU continued. Literally everything I've said has been in response to YOU. Secondly, you're twisting my words (in the argument YOU persist on continuing). I never said nor implied "run away and plunge into war!" Thirdly, of course I'm ignoring your questions. You've insulted me to my face twice now. I'm not answering anything if you're just going to insult me. "Don't you remember RD? You obviously don't know these characters and roles!" I remember RD, and I understand perfectly well what roles the characters are supposed to play, I just don't like them. I find many of it narratively flawed in multiple ways, Kurthnaga being one example. Just because I don't like it, does not mean I don't understand it. Don't expect me to debate if you're going to insult me, and then go so far as to say that I'm persisting an argument. The only thing I've been childish about is the stuff with Sophie. But I've apologized, we've made up, it's cool. *sigh* I've tried to prevent this from becoming personal... At least I tried.I ask questions, and you respond without answering them. Is that not called continuing? We are talking around in circles. If I ask a question, I expect an answer. If you ignore it, it could mean many things. Do you not know how to answer? Do you choose not to answer? If so, why? The questions I asked were purely related to your opinion on Kurthnaga. I've basically been saying the same thing this whole time, if you were in his position, what would you have done? Now think about that. Does it relate to what you think Kurthnaga should've done? What if he did do that? I reminded you of the events of RD because therein lies the perfect example that directly contradicts your negative opinion on Kurthnaga. The game basically spoon-feeds you the reason Kurthnaga isn't running away from his family, yet you still insist that it would've been the better decision? Apparently asking a question (do you not remember RD?) is an insult now. And "I don't think" translates to "you obviously don't." Who's twisting whose words? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 *sigh* I've tried to prevent this from becoming personal... At least I tried. I ask questions, and you respond without answering them. Is that not called continuing? We are talking around in circles. If I ask a question, I expect an answer. If you ignore it, it could mean many things. Do you not know how to answer? Do you choose not to answer? If so, why? The questions I asked were purely related to your opinion on Kurthnaga. I've basically been saying the same thing this whole time, if you were in his position, what would you have done? Now think about that. Does it relate to what you think Kurthnaga should've done? What if he did do that? I reminded you of the events of RD because therein lies the perfect example that directly contradicts your negative opinion on Kurthnaga. The game basically spoon-feeds you the reason Kurthnaga isn't running away from his family, yet you still insist that it would've been the better decision? Apparently asking a question (do you not remember RD?) is an insult now. And "I don't think" translates to "you obviously don't." Who's twisting whose words? Please, don't try to act like "the good guy" ("I've tried to prevent this from becoming personal...at least I tried"). You ask questions, I respond and answered them. I genuinely have no idea what you're thinking I didn't answer? Seriously, I am very genuinely confused here. I gave you answers until you said something that I took as an insult (your exact words were "I literally gave you an example of why he shouldn't run away. Do you not remember the events of RD or something?" and that came off as insulting to me, it did not come off as a question at all). I have no idea what you're expecting? I answered, you just didn't seem to like my answers? You cited events in RD, I've said I find it narratively questionable, I find Kurthnaga's decisions questionable, I find the motives behind it questionable, I find it all just questionable and flawed. You never once even hinted at the question "what would YOU do?" you just tried justifying Kurthnaga's decisions and basically said "well what do you expect?" I am seriously, genuinely confused, I have absolutely no idea what you're expecting. As for twisting words. No, I didn't. It was very clear that I exaggerated your statement to help get my point across. You actually tried to add text and context to my statements that I thought were clearly not there, but I suppose I was wrong about that? I'm not kidding here. I really have absolutely no idea what you're wanting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Lalum 9 Olivia 2Xane 6Tiki 21Myrrh 11Lethe 17Mordecai 8Caineghis 3Muarim 10Reyson 10Janaff 15Ulki 13Nasir 13Tibarn 22Naesala 15Nealuchi 3Kurthnaga 8Nailah 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Lalum 9 Xane 6Tiki 21Myrrh 11Lethe 17Mordecai 8Caineghis 3Muarim 10Reyson 11Janaff 15Ulki 13Nasir 13Tibarn 22Naesala 16Nealuchi 1Kurthnaga 6Nailah 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragonight Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 ^ Lalum would be at 10. And can you please not just delete the name, people like seeing votes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragonight Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I am going to go through the trouble of quoting the entire conversation for you to see. Kurthnaga get the courage to stand up to your idiot family BEFORE the Endgame you dummy! Why would the youngest member of the Black Dragon Tribe do something as foolish as oppose his father? He saw what happened to his sister, he saw what happened to his brother... Does he really want to go down that path as well? Note that he never even saw blood before entering his first battle against Ike's troops, and he nearly faints when Ike is carrying a blood-stained sword around. Then run away. Just run away. But at least tell someone you know isn't a Laguz-hater who you are so you have someplace to go. Hah... I literally gave you an example of why he shouldn't do that. Do you remember what happened to Almedha when she ran away? How she basically became a slave and caused Rajaion to go looking after her, becoming even worse of a slave? How did Daein come into possession of Red Dragon Feral Ones? They were the ones that Dheginsea sent to look for Almedha, along with Rajaion. Kurthnaga isn't stupid enough to follow Almedha's mistakes, especially since he is Dheginsea's last close heir. You gave me an example of why he shouldn't stand up to his family, not run away. And what happens to one person does not mean it will happen to another. "Stand up to his family" and "run away" are exactly the same thing in this situation. I literally gave you an example of why he shouldn't run away. Do you not remember the events of RD or something?Almedha's an example of why Kurthnaga shouldn't take such dangerous risks. If a close relative of yours runs away from your family, and ends up being brutally tortured to death, would you still run away? Especially if you're of noble birth, and have never experienced combat before? Would you leave alone? Without telling anybody, without knowing where you'd go, without knowing if it were safe or not?Keep in mind that when Kurthnaga helped Ike, he wasn't supposed to. Goldoan Dragons aren't supposed to intervene with human affairs. But he had the sympathy to help Ike, and he saw him in trouble, so he did. That doesn't automatically make Ike a friend. Ike could've turned around and stabbed Kurthnaga to death right then and there if he wanted to, because Kurthnaga doesn't know how to defend himself. If Ike was Micaiah, Kurthnaga would've done the same thing. Ike and Micaiah are on opposite sides for the most part of RD, so whatever Kurthnaga does without his family's consent takes a toll on him and the Goldoans as a whole. I remember RD...thanks a lot. You completely ignored everything past my first two sentences. They weren't even the main focus of my post. Is that sarcasm? In a sense. I'm honestly pretty offended. I question Kurthnaga's decisions, or lack thereof. I don't understand why you'd think I don't remember RD? I just don't like him and think he could have done something different? So why would you still give him the option of running away? He clearly doesn't have that option, and even if he did, he wouldn't take it. Everyone has an option, and I think he could have had that option. I am tired of repeating myself... Why would he run away if he knew what happened to the last person that ran away? He could've easily been killed the moment he stepped out of Goldoan borders.Since you've never answered my questions but still continue this argument, are you implying that you'd run away from your family and plunge headfirst into a war, with no combat experience? Go back and count how many questions I've asked that you didn't answer. You never once even hinted at the question "what would YOU do?" you just tried justifying Kurthnaga's decisions and basically said "well what do you expect?" I never even hinted at the question "what would YOU do?" Really?Yes, I'm trying to justify Kurthnaga's decisions. That's why you dislike him, right? Well, I'm trying to say how making different decisions would end up worse for Kurthnaga, and therefore he chose not to make those decisions. I backed up my justification with events from Radiant Dawn. You don't like Kurthnaga because he can't muster up the courage to stand up to his family? Because he can't run away? As for twisting words. No, I didn't. It was very clear that I exaggerated your statement to help get my point across. You actually tried to add text and context to my statements that I thought were clearly not there, but I suppose I was wrong about that? What's the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 "Stand up to his family" and "run away" are exactly the same thing in this situation. No they aren't. I don't understand how they're the same? You completely ignored everything past my first two sentences. They weren't even the main focus of my post. Yes, I did. Because: I gave you answers until you said something that I took as an insult (your exact words were "I literally gave you an example of why he shouldn't run away. Do you not remember the events of RD or something?" and that came off as insulting to me, it did not come off as a question at all) Go back and count how many questions I've asked that you didn't answer. See above. I never even hinted at the question "what would YOU do?" Really? Yes, really. Seriously. I have no idea where that was hinted in any of your statements. I cannot see it anywhere. I do not understand. Yes, I'm trying to justify Kurthnaga's decisions. That's why you dislike him, right? Well, I'm trying to say how making different decisions would end up worse for Kurthnaga, and therefore he chose not to make those decisions. I backed up my justification with events from Radiant Dawn. You don't like Kurthnaga because he can't muster up the courage to stand up to his family? Because he can't run away? And I'm saying there's no guarantee they'll end up worse for him. As I said, just because it happened to one person...does not mean it will happen to another. I think he's making incredibly poor decisions! And RD's bad narrative doesn't help anything. I just find it poorly handled. Why is that such an issue? What's the difference? The difference is that I didn't add any context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragonight Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 No they aren't. I don't understand how they're the same? In Kurthnaga's case, running away is opposing his family. It's involving them with the war, which is exactly against Dheginsea's wishes. I gave examples for both and why doing either would end up poorly for him. Yes, I did. Why would the youngest member of the Black Dragon Tribe do something as foolish as oppose his father? He saw what happened to his sister, he saw what happened to his brother... Does he really want to go down that path as well? Do you remember what happened to Almedha when she ran away? How she basically became a slave and caused Rajaion to go looking after her, becoming even worse of a slave? How did Daein come into possession of Red Dragon Feral Ones? And where exactly are the answers to these? Yes, really. Seriously. I have no idea where that was hinted in any of your statements. I cannot see it anywhere. I do not understand. Almedha's an example of why Kurthnaga shouldn't take such dangerous risks. If a close relative of yours runs away from your family, and ends up being brutally tortured to death, would you still run away? Especially if you're of noble birth, and have never experienced combat before? Would you leave alone? Without telling anybody, without knowing where you'd go, without knowing if it were safe or not? Keep in mind that when Kurthnaga helped Ike, he wasn't supposed to. Goldoan Dragons aren't supposed to intervene with human affairs. But he had the sympathy to help Ike, and he saw him in trouble, so he did. That doesn't automatically make Ike a friend. Ike could've turned around and stabbed Kurthnaga to death right then and there if he wanted to, because Kurthnaga doesn't know how to defend himself. If Ike was Micaiah, Kurthnaga would've done the same thing. Ike and Micaiah are on opposite sides for the most part of RD, so whatever Kurthnaga does without his family's consent takes a toll on him and the Goldoans as a whole. No idea, huh... And I'm saying there's no guarantee they'll end up worse for him. As I said, just because it happened to one person...does not mean it will happen to another. I think he's making incredibly poor decisions! And RD's bad narrative doesn't help anything. I just find it poorly handled. Why is that such an issue? Kurthnaga's first time on the battlefield, he nearly goes insane. If he runs away, do you think he'll be safer than staying with his family? It's not like he might get captured, sold, killed or anything, right? No one would know that a Royal Black Dragon suddenly went missing, and Dheginsea wouldn't get worried at all for his only heir? The difference is that I didn't add any context. Turning "I don't think" into "you obviously don't" is adding a tone of rudeness that was never there. You took insult to something that you saw with your imagination. When did I twist your words anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragonight Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Leaving this here for tomorrow because I'm leaving now. Dancers Lalum 10 Shapeshifters Xane 6 Tiki 21 Myrrh 11 Lethe 17 Mordecai 8 Caineghis 3 Muarim 10 Reyson 11 Janaff 15 Ulki 13 Nasir 13 Tibarn 22 Naesala 16 Nealuchi 1 Kurthnaga 6 Nailah 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 In Kurthnaga's case, running away is opposing his family. It's involving them with the war, which is exactly against Dheginsea's wishes. I gave examples for both and why doing either would end up poorly for him. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you here. I think of opposition as like..."I'm going to fight you because I think you're wrong." I disagree entirely with this one. And where exactly are the answers to these? It's the same thing I've been saying. "Just because it happened to one person, does not mean it will happen to another." That was literally my answer. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear enough. No idea, huh... Yes, no idea. Seriously, I did not see that at all. Don't ask me how, but I completely missed that part. And the answer is yes, I'd run away. I wouldn't go right away though, I'd wait and plan it out in complete secrecy, then get the flapjacks out of there. Kurthnaga's first time on the battlefield, he nearly goes insane. If he runs away, do you think he'll be safer than staying with his family? It's not like he might get captured, sold, killed or anything, right? No one would know that a Royal Black Dragon suddenly went missing, and Dheginsea wouldn't get worried at all for his only heir? Yeah, I think he'd be safer. To say (or imply) that he'd *definitely* get captured, sold, killed, etc. is completely...I can't even think of a word for it. There is literally zero guarantee of this, and if he's smart (like he's supposed to be), then I believe there's a greater chance that that stuff wouldn't happen. I don't think Dheginsea would get too worried. If he really cared about anyone, he wouldn't be fighting on the wrong side. Turning "I don't think" into "you obviously don't" is adding a tone of rudeness that was never there. In all fairness, I *did* see a tone of rudeness because of your earlier "Do you not remember RD or something?" comment that I took as an insult. You took insult to something that you saw with your imagination. When did I twist your words anyway? See above. As for twisting words, that was based on the original mistake of myself for missing the direct question of what would I do, and it was also based on this: Since you've never answered my questions but still continue this argument, are you implying that you'd run away from your family and plunge headfirst into a war, with no combat experience? (Which I *did* reply to) Secondly, you're twisting my words (in the argument YOU persist on continuing). I never said nor implied "run away and plunge into war!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 ^ Lalum would be at 10. And can you please not just delete the name, people like seeing votes... Umm... I thought it'd be more obvious that this list is done (forgot to bold, though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Xane 6 Tiki 21 Myrrh 10 Lethe 17 Mordecai 9 Caineghis 3 Muarim 10 Reyson 11 Janaff 15 Ulki 13 Nasir 14 Tibarn 22 Naesala 16 Nealuchi 0 Kurthnaga 6 Nailah 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Xane 4 Tiki 21 Myrrh 10 Lethe 17 Mordecai 10 Caineghis 4 Muarim 10 Reyson 11 Janaff 15 Ulki 13 Nasir 14 Tibarn 22 Naesala 16 Kurthnaga 6 Nailah 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom037 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) I'm almost out of laguz I actively dislike. Sorry Janaff Xane 5 Tiki 21 Myrrh 10 Lethe 15 Mordecai 10 Caineghis 4 Muarim 10 Reyson 11 Janaff 13 Ulki 14 Nasir 14 Tibarn 22 Naesala 16 Kurthnaga 6 Nailah 6 Edited November 3, 2015 by Phantom037 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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