IceBrand Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Sometimes I can't tell if someone is helping me become a better person or just being a douche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 git gud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 it's like pornography, you know it when you see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 it's like pornography, you know it when you see it How do you explain Ana, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 it's like pornography, you know it when you see it So it's always being an asshole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 First off, assholes can still give good advice - they just don't necessarily end up giving that advice in the most effective way. IMO if you're sort of complacent about something important, than an asshole'ish approach can sometimes give you a bit of a wake up call. But on other matters, they can screw up your mood/mojo/moxie and make it harder to function effectively. IMO asshole VS constructive criticism is basically a matter of tone, and in the case of the asshole, making mountains out of molehills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 How do you explain Ana, then? hoho makzae king of one liners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 How do you explain Ana, then? pornography Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 pornography Well played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErrantDShepherd Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yes. Someone may be an asshole while still giving some advice, but there is a pretty clear difference between that and just straight up being an asshole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm gay dabadeedabada Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Criticism: They're not trying to get a rise out of you at all and are not particularly upset Asshole: Will be an ass and won't be very helpful at all beyond the initial "You suck" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted35362 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 it's kinda gray but pretty much, the more specific they are about what you need improvement on, the closer it is to just crit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I find it kind of obvious. Look at the context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Criticism: They're not trying to get a rise out of you at all and are not particularly upset Asshole: Will be an ass and won't be very helpful at all beyond the initial "You suck" Pretty much this. We'll pretend somebody drew a bunny for the following example. Criticism: "It's a good attempt, bunnies have shorter legs though, and the ears look more like antennae. Try thickening them and studying bunny anatomy/looking at photos, and try again." Asshole: "That's a bunny? It looks like a suckily drawn fluffy space alien or something. Burn the fucking thing. Never draw again. You're an embarrassment to everyone who considers themselves an artist." Also criticisers will tend to also say what's good about whatever it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interest Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) The art of understanding and offer criticism can be difficult, but there's some guidelines for offering criticism out there. With that said, I have a few personal rules when trying to criticize, some of which are reflected in the link. Try to... Refrain from vulgar language unless relevant (or if the parties involved don't really care). Just like in a debate, it usually makes one sound less credible. Refrain from personal attacks at the objective level ("You're an idiot." "You're retarded." and so on). Doing so also damages credibility for reasons such as ad hominem-like practice, etc. Be calm when making the criticism. Heated emotions tend to color the criticism with unneeded hatred, anger, and the like. Refrain from directly criticizing the person wholly unless it is relevant to do so (Instead of saying "You did something wrong" say "Your behavior is in the wrong" or something along those lines). This is largely for clarity and to not make the criticized individual feel as threatened. It also makes one sound less judgmental. Be as specific as possible when making the criticism. It goes pretty well with the above point. Use an easily understandable analogy or metaphor. It helps the criticized individual feel more at ease and helps relay the point across in a seemingly indirect manner. Reduce the pressing or let up if the criticized refuses to listen for various reasons (such as these). Build credibility beforehand. This especially applies if one is trying to criticize someone they know since if they themselves behave in a certain manner it may inadvertently color their criticism for better or worse. In short, if someone is normally pretty calm and collected people are more likely to listen to them, etc. Actively debate a lot. This may sound strange but it helps to recognize potential flaws in other individuals. It also helps if one becomes well versed in logical fallacies. Fair warning, however, since in a debate one shouldn't make their entire argument about flaws of an opponent whether it's the fallacies they commit (known as the "Fallacy Fallacy") or their character (ad hominem and possibly other fallacies). Instead these remarks should be added more as an aside to try to help keep the debate civil. To put it another way, rebuttals and the like should be the meat of the actual discussion and separated from the critical statements about what the opponent might be doing wrong. This only applies if the discussion is about a topic different from the individual (person's behavior, etc). Look up examples of all kinds of criticism and behavior. For instance, play League of Legends to learn more about "toxicity" or lurk on various forums and spot differences. If anyone is interested, I have some examples worth taking a glance at. Most of all: Realize that even the best criticism (or statements in general) can have its flaws. The art of being a critic isn't perfect and criticism to one may be an attack to another. If there's a mistake, try to fix it in an expedient manner (this is part of why I edit my posts a lot since my precision of language isn't the best).Probably a few more points I could make, but this should do for now. Edited March 23, 2015 by Interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interest Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Such dank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrhesia Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Cuntish criticism: "This is shit" (which is still useful)Constructive criticism: "This is shit, this is how you should fix it" (which is more useful) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 idg the stuff with the avatars. Please offer me some constructive criticism of my inability to understand why they are being posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 your understanding is shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 punching people in the face because their work is shit is also a way to be an asshole even though punching people in the face is rly fun [spoiler=srs shit for people who care]Criticism actually points out flaws and shit Criticizing constructively points out the flaws and tells you how to get better. Adding praise for what is done well is not a part of the definition of constructive criticism since by definition pointing out nice things about a thing isn't criticizing it, but it can be packaged with constructive criticism to make it more receptive to the person being criticized. It is not mandatory (and really if you can't find something nice about some work, some works are just entirely pieces of shit with no redeeming features, even by professionals, you don't have to make something up that's nice, that'd be detrimental and lying), but if there is something you do like about the work or something that is, in your opinion, actually done well, it doesn't hurt to package it in with the criticisms. Ways to be an asshole may or may not involve critique; You can be an asshole simply by attacking a piece of work without saying anything substantial about it, or you can be an asshole in posting actual critique about works posted in private-to-semi-private spaces such as own sketchbook you didn't ask to see or personal site/blog (unless they opening state they want critique). Works posted on public spaces that invite and generate discussion, professional works and products, and people who openly ask for critique should, on the other hand, be prepared for legitimate critiques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) With the rest of the thread's fine advice in mind; Turning to the last part in particular of what Thor said, some people identify unsolicited criticism (and sometimes even solicited criticism), even that intended to be constructive, as "being an asshole" more readily than others (sometimes with fair enough reason). I've found it especially risks poor reception (in such cases where it wasn't requested) when it's identifiably phrased -as criticism,- and especially when it comes from somebody whose opinion they haven't yet come to trust (AKA "some random"). Some stranger you meet on the street who's laughing their ass off with a group of friends may not be the first person you'd want to approach you for the purpose of discussing how you could improve the color coordination of your clothes, for example, no matter how genteel they are about it. More ways to take the edge off your criticism, particularly in those situations where the target didn't ask for it: -Try to be understanding of how they made what mistakes (or just improbable decisions) you're addressing. "It's easy to accidentally do [this or that]," "I've done [that or this] a lot myself," etc. -Instead of saying they could do something -better- or that they're doing something -wrong,- just bring up how you like to handle whatever it is. Maybe ask them what they think before really getting into it. Treat it like a normal conversation. -And, of course, ask yourself how badly they really need that criticism/how badly you really need to give it. Edited March 23, 2015 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted35362 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Asshole: "That's a bunny? It looks like a suckily drawn fluffy space alien or something. Burn the fucking thing. Never draw again. You're an embarrassment to everyone who considers themselves an artist." this is still criticism...it pretty much says that it doesn't look like a bunny to the viewer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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