Do you like where FE is heading...? /:

[TFJ]

Have already talked about this too much in other threads, so I will answer with a simple "no".

I actually regret buying Awakening. There isn't a single redeeming quality in that game for me.

Let's see if FE: If Nohr path is a return to form. I'm not confident though.

[FrostyFireMage]

fanservice isn't exactly a new thing for the FE series, it was just a lot less blatant

I mean we had characters like Brunya and Gerik and Marisa and Ilyana

[Junkhead]

You mention Ilyana, and that makes me HIGHLY question your standards...apparently girls can't wear skirts anymore...

[Rawkstar]

Excuse me, PoR had actual support conversations. And I still prefer that support system over Awakening's. RD dropped the ball on supports though, I'll admit that. As for the things you mentioned, if things like light magic and unique chapter objectives are just "little things" then so are the stuff you mentioned. It's not just weapon weight either. I mentioned a bunch of things. And the thing is, I didn't have a problem with bonus experience or Tellius's shop system.

Also, old characters returning was a completely optional thing and even cost money, plus the series wasn't at risk of ending when Tellius was made. There was no reason Tellius should have had this.

Lastly, I felt that Tellius had an excellent story overall.

I was referring to the support conversations in RD, sorry if I misworded that. Again, the thing is, the majority of the things we're arguing here is based around opinions. You prefered PoR's supports, I prefered Awakenings. You liked the story, I wasn't so fond of it. Several people would back up both arguments, can we agree on that much?

The other thing is, the Tellius series is highly responsible for the possible ending of the series. Lets look at the global sales facts (Source):

Fire Emblem 7 - 0.97 million units sold

Fire Emblem 8 - 0.89 million units sold

Fire Emblem 9 - 0.54 million units sold

Fire Emblem 10 - 0.49 million units sold

Fire Emblem 11 - 0.60 million units sold

Fire Emblem 13 - 1.55 million units sold

We know that the declining sales of the series was the sole reason that Awakening was likely to be the final itteration of the series. It just so happens that the Tellius games were the worst selling in the series. As a matter of fact both titles combined didn't come anywhere close to Awakening's figures. Awakening saved the series. Whether you like it or not, you have to acknoledge that much. But at the end of the day, I stand by my original point: if you won't be happy with change, go back to what you did like, and leave those of us who do enjoy this alone. (This is a general statement, not directing it at you specifically).

[Irysa]

FYI Awakening would have had to sell under 250k to be the last in the series.

http://www.fireemblemwod.com/articulo.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1369200449&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&

Interview with the explict figure. There is simply no precedent that even going by statistics of ill repute from VGChartz, Awakening would have sold so little, seeing as FE12 sold more than that by a mile in Japan alone (it broke that in it's first week in Japan), and Radiant Dawn (the worst selling game in the franchise) was still quite far ahead. Tellius was part of the series decline but if 250k was the number they gave, then the series was definitely safe for quite a while. I think we both know that it wasn't simply in order to save the series that Awakening did what it did, it was to reinvigorate it towards a new market - that of the more casual otakudom.

I am not in any way saying this was a "wrong" thing to do, but we shouldn't attempt to sidestep reality.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Irysa

[Baldrick]

Awakening allegedly "saving the series" indicates it was a sound financial investment by IS, but nothing about the actual quality of the game. If in a parallel timeline it only sold 100k and the series died, but was exactly the same otherwise, would it be any worse?

[Junkhead]

Awakening allegedly "saving the series" indicates it was a sound financial investment by IS, but nothing about the actual quality of the game. If in a parallel timeline it only sold 100k and the series died, but was exactly the same otherwise, would it be any worse?

Yah, that's what I said. Success doesn't necessarily mean the games got better, it just means the game sold more by appealing to what others like more and "selling it's soul".

I was referring to the support conversations in RD, sorry if I misworded that. Again, the thing is, the majority of the things we're arguing here is based around opinions. You prefered PoR's supports, I prefered Awakenings. You liked the story, I wasn't so fond of it. Several people would back up both arguments, can we agree on that much?

The other thing is, the Tellius series is highly responsible for the possible ending of the series. Lets look at the global sales facts (Source):

Fire Emblem 7 - 0.97 million units sold

Fire Emblem 8 - 0.89 million units sold

Fire Emblem 9 - 0.54 million units sold

Fire Emblem 10 - 0.49 million units sold

Fire Emblem 11 - 0.60 million units sold

Fire Emblem 13 - 1.55 million units sold

We know that the declining sales of the series was the sole reason that Awakening was likely to be the final itteration of the series. It just so happens that the Tellius games were the worst selling in the series. As a matter of fact both titles combined didn't come anywhere close to Awakening's figures. Awakening saved the series. Whether you like it or not, you have to acknoledge that much. But at the end of the day, I stand by my original point: if you won't be happy with change, go back to what you did like, and leave those of us who do enjoy this alone. (This is a general statement, not directing it at you specifically).

Then us true FE fans are a minority. The Tellius series was amazing, regardless of whether a kid buys it or a million don't.

[Florete]

I was referring to the support conversations in RD, sorry if I misworded that. Again, the thing is, the majority of the things we're arguing here is based around opinions. You prefered PoR's supports, I prefered Awakenings. You liked the story, I wasn't so fond of it. Several people would back up both arguments, can we agree on that much?

The other thing is, the Tellius series is highly responsible for the possible ending of the series. Lets look at the global sales facts (Source):

Fire Emblem 7 - 0.97 million units sold

Fire Emblem 8 - 0.89 million units sold

Fire Emblem 9 - 0.54 million units sold

Fire Emblem 10 - 0.49 million units sold

Fire Emblem 11 - 0.60 million units sold

Fire Emblem 13 - 1.55 million units sold

We know that the declining sales of the series was the sole reason that Awakening was likely to be the final itteration of the series. It just so happens that the Tellius games were the worst selling in the series. As a matter of fact both titles combined didn't come anywhere close to Awakening's figures. Awakening saved the series. Whether you like it or not, you have to acknoledge that much. But at the end of the day, I stand by my original point: if you won't be happy with change, go back to what you did like, and leave those of us who do enjoy this alone. (This is a general statement, not directing it at you specifically).

There's context missing here.

The 3DS has a huge install base, and mostly consisting of gamers. The Gamecube had a pretty small install base (for reference, the best-selling Gamecube game, Super Smash Bros. Melee, only sold just over 7 million copies; Pokemon X and Y, the leading 3DS games, have sold 13.7 million, and that number can still increase). Path of Radiance also released nearer to the end of the Gamecube's life time, which is less a problem with the game itself and more how it was handled. The Wii had a huge install base, but of mostly casual players interested in things like Wii Sports and Wii Fit; the kind of gamers who would want to get a game like Radiant Dawn weren't getting a Wii.

Comparatively speaking, Path of Radiance sold about what could be expected and Radiant Dawn sold a little under par. People often cite these games as having sold like crap and nearly killing the series, and they might have been the start of the problems, but they're hardly the primary culprit. If anything, Shadow Dragon actually sold worse than them relatively when you consider how large the DS install base was and the kind of people who owned a DS compared to people who got a Wii. And then, of course, Heroes of Light and Shadow had such a poor release state that they didn't even want to release it overseas (it was a DS game when the 3DS was starting to grow strong), really contributing to sales problems.

Fire Emblem is just better suited to handhelds, and I personally am happy that they seem to want to stick with that.

[Baldrick]

There's also the advertising factor, which had some incalculable effect on sales as well.

As easy a target for ridicule as Awakening did, it did do quite a few things right. If a major reason for liking Awakening is that it sold well, there are many games out there that they'd enjoy a lot more.

[Kiseki]

The 3DS has a huge install base, and mostly consisting of gamers. The Gamecube had a pretty small install base (for reference, the best-selling Gamecube game, Super Smash Bros. Melee, only sold just over 7 million copies; Pokemon X and Y, the leading 3DS games, have sold 13.7 million, and that number can still increase). Path of Radiance also released nearer to the end of the Gamecube's life time, which is less a problem with the game itself and more how it was handled. The Wii had a huge install base, but of mostly casual players interested in things like Wii Sports and Wii Fit; the kind of gamers who would want to get a game like Radiant Dawn weren't getting a Wii.

Comparatively speaking, Path of Radiance sold about what could be expected and Radiant Dawn sold a little under par. People often cite these games as having sold like crap and nearly killing the series, and they might have been the start of the problems, but they're hardly the primary culprit. If anything, Shadow Dragon actually sold worse than them relatively when you consider how large the DS install base was and the kind of people who owned a DS compared to people who got a Wii. And then, of course, Heroes of Light and Shadow had such a poor release state that they didn't even want to release it overseas (it was a DS game when the 3DS was starting to grow strong), really contributing to sales problems.

Fire Emblem is just better suited to handhelds, and I personally am happy that they seem to want to stick with that.

Really? I thought it was because of Smash Bros. Brawl's success that interest in the Fire Emblem series grew. Awakening just happened to be the next installment when interest in the series peaked, and naturally it would be a lot of newcomers' first Fire Emblem game.

Have already talked about this too much in other threads, so I will answer with a simple "no".

I actually regret buying Awakening. There isn't a single redeeming quality in that game for me.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I'm just as disappointed as you are.

I personally don't mind fanservice, just as long as it isn't one-sided/aimed towards a specific demographic and used as a marketing tactic at the same time (Or pretty much used in the same way Awakening did). I'm kinda worried how FE14 (and the series's future) will turn out because of this.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Kiseki

[Rawkstar]

Then us true FE fans are a minority. The Tellius series was amazing, regardless of whether a kid buys it or a million don't.

I don't think anyone is able to say what makes a true fan and what doesn't. If you like the series, then you like the series, and that's that. People's opinions are going to differ, and there will be disagreements, but to call someone out and say that they aren't a true fan isn't right. There's nothing wrong with enjoying any combination of games, but to look at it from a totalitarian standpoint and belittle others for having different preferences is wrong, and I would ask that you retract your statement.

There's context missing here.

The 3DS has a huge install base, and mostly consisting of gamers. The Gamecube had a pretty small install base (for reference, the best-selling Gamecube game, Super Smash Bros. Melee, only sold just over 7 million copies; Pokemon X and Y, the leading 3DS games, have sold 13.7 million, and that number can still increase). Path of Radiance also released nearer to the end of the Gamecube's life time, which is less a problem with the game itself and more how it was handled. The Wii had a huge install base, but of mostly casual players interested in things like Wii Sports and Wii Fit; the kind of gamers who would want to get a game like Radiant Dawn weren't getting a Wii.

Comparatively speaking, Path of Radiance sold about what could be expected and Radiant Dawn sold a little under par. People often cite these games as having sold like crap and nearly killing the series, and they might have been the start of the problems, but they're hardly the primary culprit. If anything, Shadow Dragon actually sold worse than them relatively when you consider how large the DS install base was and the kind of people who owned a DS compared to people who got a Wii. And then, of course, Heroes of Light and Shadow had such a poor release state that they didn't even want to release it overseas (it was a DS game when the 3DS was starting to grow strong), really contributing to sales problems.

Fire Emblem is just better suited to handhelds, and I personally am happy that they seem to want to stick with that.

Hmm, I had never considered the lifetime nor the install base of each console. I applaud you for brining these points to light. With that said, the Tellius games were the worst selling games released overseas and in Japan. It's hard to overlook this fact from any realistic point of view, but as you said, this was not the only problem. Shadow Dragon sold much less proportionally, but in the end it still outsold the Tellius games in terms of overall units, which is the most relevant figure to look into when observing trends. However, we can still agree that the overall trend of sales of Fire Emblem games was still decreasing nonetheless. Heroes of Light and Shadow sold just as well as Shadow Dragon sold in Japan. I think that the decision to keep the game from going overseas wasn't due exclusively to the fact that it didn't sell well (though it still outsold PoR and RD in Japan). I wonder if the pricing ($30-$40 for DS iterations vs $40-$50 for GC & Wii iterations) had anything to do with it.

We must also consider outside forces helping sell titles. For example, FE7 was made extremely popular due to Melee. It seem as though Brawl didn't do quite as good job promoting the Fire Emblem series. While very little proven coorelations, the trends are fun to hypothesize about.

I suppose many games were at fault for Fire Emblem's dwindling sales, and pinning the blame on any one line of games would be foolish. I did not mean to make such a claim, but rather to point out the outliers. After seeing Paper Mario's recent flop (after switching platforms coincidentally...), it would seem as though Intelligent Systems has a problem when it comes to switching platforms. Though at the end of the day, I do agree with your final statement about Fire Emblem staying on the portable systems. I'd be willing to bet that FE14 will outsell SMTxFE (not to say that it isn't a popular claim).

Edited April 7, 2015 by Rawkstar

[Junkhead]

I don't think anyone is able to say what makes a true fan and what doesn't. If you like the series, then you like the series, and that's that. People's opinions are going to differ, and there will be disagreements, but to call someone out and say that they aren't a true fan isn't right. There's nothing wrong with enjoying any combination of games, but to look at it from a totalitarian standpoint and belittle others for having different preferences is wrong, and I would ask that you retract your statement.

Don't worry, I didn't call you out on not being a "true fan". （´゜◞౪◟゜`)

[Rawkstar]

Don't worry, I didn't call you out on not being a "true fan". （´゜◞౪◟゜`)

I certainly hope there aren't any dark implications in this post. In either event, if being a "true fan" means that you think that Tellius is the best, then I wouldn't see a reason to look forward to the upcoming title.

[Junkhead]

What I'm saying is, does the number of sales matter, when most of them are probably from people who just want to pick the game up for the first time (and have hardly any idea what's it about), over the minority, when it comes to quality-talk?

[Baldrick]

Don't listen to Soul, of course being a true fan is not decided on whether you like Tellius the best. It's whether you like Jugdral the best. But really, ignore him.

Also, I don't see how install base is not relevant? You're not going to buy a game unless you have the console to play it. Not unless you're not a true fan of the series.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Baldrick

[Junkhead]

^LAWL

I'm not saying Tellius is the best, and that liking Tellius makes you a true fan. I'm just saying, don't mistake success in matter of numbers for the quality of something! Do I really need to bring up Justin Bieber Miley Cyrus as an example!?

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

What are you guys talking about all the true fans love Barensia.

Awakening was probably my least favourite FE, but it's just one game and Fire Emblem has experimented a lot throughout its history. Unless FE14 is also disappointing I'm not concerned about the series at all.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

remember everyone, you can't speak bad about the game that "saved the franchise"

it was gonna sell well no matter what i believe, it was advertised really well and on a system alot of people owned.

with that said, FE14 looks a lot better so i think i like where the direction of the series is going, sure i didn't like 13 but i'm also not too big on 5 so it wouldn't be the first time.

[thecrimsonflash]

remember everyone, you can't speak bad about the game that "saved the franchise"

it was gonna sell well no matter what i believe, it was advertised really well and on a system alot of people owned.

with that said, FE14 looks a lot better so i think i like where the direction of the series is going, sure i didn't like 13 but i'm also not too big on 5 so it wouldn't be the first time.

hey everyone he said he despises it with a passion get him

it could have been on cdi and everyone would have bought it awakening is love awakening is life

but in all seriousness it's too soon to judge the series on future quality

[-Cynthia-]

I suppose many games were at fault for Fire Emblem's dwindling sales, and pinning the blame on any one line of games would be foolish. I did not mean to make such a claim, but rather to point out the outliers. After seeing Paper Mario's recent flop (after switching platforms coincidentally...), it would seem as though Intelligent Systems has a problem when it comes to switching platforms. Though at the end of the day, I do agree with your final statement about Fire Emblem staying on the portable systems. I'd be willing to bet that FE14 will outsell SMTxFE (not to say that it isn't a popular claim).

Not to make this topic about Paper Mario, but I think the problems there have to do with the series changing genres- from an RPG(64 and TTYD) to definitely not an RPG. The name "Sticker Star" also makes it seem like a game that's about collecting stickers which makes it seem like a kiddie game...just questionable decisions all around there.

[Jave]

I bet that when FE14 comes out, it'll immediately become the most hated game in the series and suddenly everyone will realize how awesome FE13 was.

Yup, Zelda cycle applies to Fire Emblem now.

[Junkhead]

...what's this "Zelda cycle"? As far as I know, there's one for the Sonic series. But Zelda...?

[Jave]

...what's this "Zelda cycle"? As far as I know, there's one for the Sonic series. But Zelda...?

In a nutshell, new game comes out, everyone complains heavily about the game's flaws and suddenly the previous game in the series is seen in a much better light than it was when that one was new. It's obviously not a rule of thumb, but it's something that happens with a certain portion of the fanbase. It was the most notorious with Wind Waker, as when that one came out a sizeable portion of the fanbase hated it (mostly due to the art style, which was quite the change back then), but by the time Twilight Princess came along suddenly Wind Waker is now seen as a classic.

I feel something similar will happen here. I don't doubt some people are going to loath FE14, and looking back, FE13 won't be too bad in comparison.

[Dark Sage]

Nah, the reason is because FE13 is very much an easy target. Its flaws are more out in the open than in the other games, which share some of them but often mask them a bit more successfully. It's also due to some backlash against the hype machine; the game got an inordinate amount of praise, especially when it initially came out. Whether it be from some of SF's members (seriously look at the poats/topics made in late 2012 to early 2013, there was very little criticism of the game, or from game reviewers of which many had no experience or skill the genre. It's what happens when a game gets unrealistic praise and hype, it's just getting set up to be beaten with a baseball bat.

It's why i try to be more moderate and realistic when talking about things I like.

[RJWalker]

The Zelda cycle does not exist. What you fail to realize that it is rarely the same group of fans.

>Game A comes out. A group of fans hates it for whatever reason.

>Game B comes out. A different group of fans hates it for different reasons.

There is some overlap but you're acting like fandoms are a one single entity and not an incredibly diverse group with equally diverse opinions. The idea that a fandom has one single opinion that keeps changing every time a game comes out is ridiculously stupid.

The reason why Windwaker was seen as a classic after Twlight Princess came out is likely because the many fans that hated it didn't stay with the series, leaving behind people who loved it and praised it and didn't like the changes that Twilight Princess made and hence, TP was seen as a disliked game.

The Zelda cycle does not exist.

Even after FE14 comes, out, I'll still consider FE13 the worst game in the series. Unless, you know, FE14 is somehow worse. But that's not possible, right? R-right?

Edited April 7, 2015 by Ranger Jack Walker